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Munificentissiums Deus proclaims her death several times.  It must also be noted that Christ experienced death as a result of our own sins; He was born in the incorrupt state fitting His Divinity, and willingly bore the curse for us. 

The Orthodox cannot accept the Immaculate Conception as it is stated by virtue of a very simple syllogism: "We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by...

It is good to note that the River of Fire was written in 1980, and thus the modern CCC did not exist. He was probably using an older book, a more puritanical text, for his sources.

:laugh:

Not a judgement of anyone, just an observation of human nature.  Whatever we do, whatever we say, all seems to stem from some personal interpretation of each one's inner need for theosis. Not sure how you extracted a judgemental statement from that, but if you did it is my own fault. -NN

There is error on both sides.  Truth is elusive; hence Christ calls his way "narrow".

You know, as I reflect and leave my tempermental emotional side (I beg forgiveness, GiC), I have come to realise that this discussion does nothing but reflect clearly the natural human desire for theosis. Orthodoxy preaches theosis through prayer, sacrament and repentance. GiC and his sort...

I'm not quite sure what you mean, but - Normally I am not so forceful, but when a man deifies humanity - nay, claims mankind to have superceded God Himself - is it not fitting to admonish him? However, if this: is what he truly believes - that God is the A and the O, the beginning and end...

Mine's a little bit the opposite, I suppose... ;D We do have something in common, after all! Forgive me if I have offended you.

This sounds reasonable, but only God knows the heart. This sounds reasonable, but only God knows the spirit. Please don't presume to judge the faith of others.  If it apparently exists, do not cast it down in favour of a lesser thing, for it is worth more than all  the riches of all the...

Themselves. How do you know what God did and did not do?  Which processes are of His wisdom?  This natural selection which you worship is nothing but one of the works which God has made in His wisdom.  The very laws which make possible this science you deify were instituted by the Almighty. ...

I by no measure object to modern science, do not misunderstand me. I object to GiC's blasphemous deification of modern science as "beyond God".  This is intolerable from one claiming to be an Orthodox Christian. 

Was this a part of my thread (Eucharistic Adoration and the East) I wonder?  Whose post was it?

Create one thing, a pencil, a leaf, a blade of grass, from nothing, and you will then have superceded the Almighty. Everything that we use to build our technological towers of Babel was made by God.  Were man alone in the primordial void, before all was, he would be absolutely impotent compared...

Ah, perhaps you misunderstood.  My comment was a reply to GIC's assertion that: "To deny scientific truth is infinitely worse than heresy...we really don't need people like that in the Church." In context, presuming both science and Orthodoxy are true, my comment was merely to say that heresy...

I'd rather be wrong in this life than the next.

I do have one question for you, Papist - How in the world do you justify your name on CAF, i.e. East and West, with this Latinist attitude which, whether you intend it or not, pervades all that you write on this forum.

I hate to be the guy that says this after a heated debate, but: Neither view is a necessary tenet of Orthodoxy - therefore, let us not be divided amongst ourselves needlessly.  Let each believe as suits his faith; if someone needs 6-day creationism to be true that he might believe, tho it might...

I see that now...oops.  Oh well  :laugh:

I would like to compliment all of those in this thread for being so concerned about minutiae, sincerely. It is this trait that I admire most about the Orthodox - they are concerned with even the smallest detail of their worship to a degree which is incredible to this Catholic; this is an...