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A surpisingly good talk

noahzarc1

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Made it through the first hour. Will have to try to get through the second hour tomorrow. Then I have to go and listen to the conversation between Ybarra and Fradd, which goes in the opposite direction, as this conversation is a reply to what Ybarra and Fradd said. I've never heard of either guy, but I've also never heard of any of the five Orthodox speakers either.
 

PorphyriosK

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An important point that was brought up that I think many Catholics fail to grasp is that theology, liturgy/worship, praxis, cannot be separated or comparmentalized.

For instance, those who would claim that the normative liturgical rite of the Catholic Church can be problematic or even a defective rite, but that it is not in any way a reflection of heterodox doctrine are attempting to compartmentalize aspects of the Church which are indivisible.

In other words, claiming that the Church can be heterodox in worship, praxis, and/or discipline, yet still remain orthodox because there are manuals of doctrine that remain intact, is in itself a heterodox claim.
 
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noahzarc1

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An important point that was brought up that I think many Catholics fail to grasp is that theology, liturgy/worship, praxis, cannot be separated or comparmentalized.

For instance, those who would claim that the normative liturgical rite of the Catholic Church can be problematic or even a defective rite, but that it is not in any way a reflection of heterodox doctrine are attempting to compartmentalize aspects of the Church which are indivisible.

In other words, claiming that the Church can be heterodox in worship, praxis, and/or discipline, yet still remain orthodox because there are manuals of doctrine that remain intact, is in itself a heterodox claim.
I still haven’t had a chance to finish listening, but I did hear where they made that point, but I was honestly not convinced on that argument. First, those that make the claim that the Roman rite is defective are not the authority for the Church. Rome has not declared the Rite defective so in essence it is not defective. I don’t know what else more to say about it. I also don’t agree that we compartmentalize the way the East claims we do. This idea of “the western mindset” or “the eastern mindset” is very subjective. The commenter Ubi Petrus made the point that western theologians only know Orthodoxy through websites, etc. However, does he suppose that a western convert to Eastern Orthodoxy acquires the “eastern mindset” or eventually abandons “the western mindset?”
 

PorphyriosK

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I still haven’t had a chance to finish listening, but I did hear where they made that point, but I was honestly not convinced on that argument. First, those that make the claim that the Roman rite is defective are not the authority for the Church. Rome has not declared the Rite defective so in essence it is not defective. I don’t know what else more to say about it. I also don’t agree that we compartmentalize the way the East claims we do. This idea of “the western mindset” or “the eastern mindset” is very subjective. The commenter Ubi Petrus made the point that western theologians only know Orthodoxy through websites, etc. However, does he suppose that a western convert to Eastern Orthodoxy acquires the “eastern mindset” or eventually abandons “the western mindset?”
I don't feel its possible for any of us raised in the West to completely abandon the western mindset, nor should we try as it's part of who we are.
I think his point is that most Latin apologists dont have any genuine interest in understanding the Eastern mindset or the differences between East/West theological paradigms.
 

noahzarc1

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Finally finished the 2 1/2 hours on that talk. Now need to go hear what Ybarra said.
 

noahzarc1

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So once I heard Ubi Petrus on the talk with David the Real Med White I was wondering if he was the owner of the website https://ubipetrusibiecclesia.com, which I've read before. So I went back and looked it up and realized they were the same people. Jay Dyer was quite active in the comments and I noticed either Snek or Seraphim towards the end seemed to be referencing an article from Craig Truglia that they cited as a real good article, but I've shared my thoughts on Truglia in the past. I think one thing that struck me was that there was criticism that the west only knows Orthodoxy through blogs, etc, or that the west only “quote mines” but with all the educated writers on Eastern Orthodoxy, they cited Truglia and I thought they did a fair bit of quote mining against the west themselves.

Overall I enjoyed the talk, it was enlightening and gave a lot to think about. I can’t say I was a big fan of Ubi’s high lofty tone in his voice, so I actually quite enjoyed the talk when he wasn’t talking. I enjoyed listening to David the real Med and I am going to go listen to his information he has against the eastern Catholics. I’m curious on his take.
 

PorphyriosK

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Agree: David is a good "pop" apologist IMO. Here is a good shorter video of his:
 
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