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Adoption of children

peterfarrington

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Does anyone know if the Coptic Orthodox have just issued some ruling on the adoption of children? Some are saying it has been banned, but this can surely only apply in Egypt based on specific circumstances there?
 

minasoliman

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I don't know. I'll ask around, but in the meantime, I haven't really heard about it until now from you.  I am apprehensive to find out.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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Father Bless,

I asked a local priest who is well-informed about such things.  He said that - as you suspected - this has to do with a specific set of circumstances in Egypt and not the general practice of the Church.  According to this priest, since the time of Sadat, Islam has formed the basis of Egyptian law and since it is illegal for Muslims to adopt kids (Islam recognizes "fostering" but not adoption), it is illegal for everyone.  This is why there are orphanages full of Coptic kids no one is allowed to adopt.  Sorry the answer is not more detailed, but Abouna seemed very busy and I didn't want to press him for further info.  Suffice it to say, the Church in Egypt needs to comply with the laws of the land, but to Abouna's knowledge, there is absolutely no prohibition on Coptic Orthodox families in the "Lands of Immigration" adopting kids.  Maybe someone else knowledgeable about Egyptian law can speak to the nature of the above-described prohibition there.

Speaking to my personal experience, I know a Coptic couple in the States who were unable to have children of their own and wanted to adopt.  They were unable to adopt Egyptian children (which they both stated would've been their preference), but they could not, and had to end up adopting kids from elsewhere.  The Church accepted these adoptions and baptized and christmated the kids as they would have natural children, and in the eyes of the Church, these are the couple's children.

There is also this article from suscopts.org which states:

Adoption is an extraordinary act of love and mercy.
http://www.suscopts.org/q&a/index.php?qid=1343
 

CoptoGeek

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Fr. Peter,  the situation is exactly as Antonious Nikolas says. The Church is not at all against adoptions, but Its hands are tied by the backwards laws of Egypt.

I have relatives that desperately tried to adopt from a Coptic orphanage. I can PM you their experience if you need names and such.
 

minasoliman

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Yes, that is true.  Was that the question, because it's nothing new.  I have a Muslim friend who was shocked when his fiancee told him that Islam does not allow adoptions.  So Egypt imposed this Islamic law on the land, and Copts' hands are tied.  Nonetheless, orphanages are allowed and I know many Coptic priests who are vigilant in being a father to these children.  During feast days, I hear many servants leave their family celebrations to celebrate with the orphans.  It is one of the saddest doctrines of Islam I have ever come across, and very frustrating to try to deal with.
 

CharalambisMakarios

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Not to derail the conversation, but is there any explanation given as to why Islam forbids adoption? What's their justification?
 

biro

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CharalambisMakarios said:
Not to derail the conversation, but is there any explanation given as to why Islam forbids adoption? What's their justification?
I have heard it said, they're afraid that a brother and sister who were separated early on, would meet later,
not knowing any better, and get married, and then you have incest.

:mad:
 

TITL

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Father Peter!!! I miss you :)


biro said:
CharalambisMakarios said:
Not to derail the conversation, but is there any explanation given as to why Islam forbids adoption? What's their justification?
I have heard it said, they're afraid that a brother and sister who were separated early on, would meet later,
not knowing any better, and get married, and then you have incest.

:mad:
This is off topic, I apologize, but this reasoning is implying that orphans can't even marry when they grow up. That doesn't make any sense to me.
 

CoptoGeek

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biro said:
CharalambisMakarios said:
Not to derail the conversation, but is there any explanation given as to why Islam forbids adoption? What's their justification?
I have heard it said, they're afraid that a brother and sister who were separated early on, would meet later,
not knowing any better, and get married, and then you have incest.

:mad:
That may be a later justification, I'm not certain.

AFAIK its because their prophet wanted to marry his adopted son's wife, Zainab. His son, Zaid, divorced her so they could marry. This caused a scandal among his followers, but he then received a "message" that adoptions are forbidden. And since Zaid was not really his son by blood, the marriage to Zainab was acceptable in their faith.


 

Mor Ephrem

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CoptoGeek said:
AFAIK its because their prophet wanted to marry his adopted son's wife, Zainab. His son, Zaid, divorced her so they could marry. This caused a scandal among his followers, but he then received a "message" that adoptions are forbidden. And since Zaid was not really his son by blood, the marriage to Zainab was acceptable in their faith.
;)
 

Stavro

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CoptoGeek said:
biro said:
CharalambisMakarios said:
Not to derail the conversation, but is there any explanation given as to why Islam forbids adoption? What's their justification?
I have heard it said, they're afraid that a brother and sister who were separated early on, would meet later,
not knowing any better, and get married, and then you have incest.

:mad:
That may be a later justification, I'm not certain.

AFAIK its because their prophet wanted to marry his adopted son's wife, Zainab. His son, Zaid, divorced her so they could marry. This caused a scandal among his followers, but he then received a "message" that adoptions are forbidden. And since Zaid was not really his son by blood, the marriage to Zainab was acceptable in their faith.
Correct.

The lusts of a 7th century man decided the fate of millions of orphans till this very day.
 

minasoliman

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CoptoGeek said:
biro said:
CharalambisMakarios said:
Not to derail the conversation, but is there any explanation given as to why Islam forbids adoption? What's their justification?
I have heard it said, they're afraid that a brother and sister who were separated early on, would meet later,
not knowing any better, and get married, and then you have incest.

:mad:
That may be a later justification, I'm not certain.

AFAIK its because their prophet wanted to marry his adopted son's wife, Zainab. His son, Zaid, divorced her so they could marry. This caused a scandal among his followers, but he then received a "message" that adoptions are forbidden. And since Zaid was not really his son by blood, the marriage to Zainab was acceptable in their faith.
One of my favorite stories in the Quran  :p
 

TITL

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Father Peter said:
TITL, I am always around. On FB if not here. God bless you.
Father, bless! (Look what I learned from other members on OC.net! I'm SO close to being a true theologian like everyone else on here... except I'm not sure what to expect after I say "Father, bless!")

I know you're always around; it's me who is never around  :'(
Graduation is in May, please remember me in your prayers!

minasoliman said:
CoptoGeek said:
biro said:
CharalambisMakarios said:
Not to derail the conversation, but is there any explanation given as to why Islam forbids adoption? What's their justification?
I have heard it said, they're afraid that a brother and sister who were separated early on, would meet later,
not knowing any better, and get married, and then you have incest.

:mad:
That may be a later justification, I'm not certain.

AFAIK its because their prophet wanted to marry his adopted son's wife, Zainab. His son, Zaid, divorced her so they could marry. This caused a scandal among his followers, but he then received a "message" that adoptions are forbidden. And since Zaid was not really his son by blood, the marriage to Zainab was acceptable in their faith.
One of my favorite stories in the Quran  :p
Have you run out of reading material? If you widen your area of interest, you'll find plenty of inspirational, instructional, and motivational books.

Exhibit A:

 
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