• Please remember: Pray for Ukraine in the Prayer forum; Share news in the Christian News section; Discuss religious implications in FFA: Religious Topics; Discuss political implications in Politics (and if you don't have access, PM me) Thank you! + Fr. George, Forum Administrator

Advice on involvement in the Armenian Church for an EO

raphalex

Newbie
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction
OCA
Hi everyone,

I have been blessed with the opportunity to participate in an Armenian Orthodox camp as a counselor, but I am actually an EO. I do not know too much about the Armenian church, and I am looking for some advice on what some differences are, and how I should best address them. Additionally, what are some things I should know/do before attending the camp?

Any advice from anyone is greatly appreciated!
 

Aram

High Elder
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
610
Reaction score
3
Points
18
Faith
Armenian Orthodox
raphalex said:
Hi everyone,

I have been blessed with the opportunity to participate in an Armenian Orthodox camp as a counselor, but I am actually an EO. I do not know too much about the Armenian church, and I am looking for some advice on what some differences are, and how I should best address them. Additionally, what are some things I should know/do before attending the camp?

Any advice from anyone is greatly appreciated!
Liturgically, culturally, and spiritually, it will probably seem far different from what you're used to. Without knowing anything about you, but knowing that you're coming from the OCA, you'll probably find that the Armenian Church is far more ethnic and political, and perhaps less overtly spiritual than what you might be used to. We're a church of diaspora. Your campers may not be as liturgically comfortable or scripturally competent as you might expect. (I don't mean this as a knock, but this has been my experience as an Armenian Christian.)

That being said, we don't bite.

I would recommend being patient, kind, open, and non-judgmental. Let the campers experience their faith, make friends, and have a great experience in their own way. Take this opportunity to learn about a different corner of the Orthodox world. And do try the lamb.
 

Avdima

High Elder
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
713
Reaction score
31
Points
28
Location
Michigan
Faith
Seeking
Jurisdiction
Caliphate of The Overthere...
RaphaCam said:
Be sure to mention Keeping Up with the Kardashians at every single conversation, Armenians love that. just kidding, I'm just subscribing
FTFY
 

Iconodule

Hoplitarches
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
16,486
Reaction score
20
Points
38
Age
39
Location
PA, USA
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Patriarchate of Johnstown
One thing I don't think gets enough credit is the Sun-Ni string cheese.
 

Alpha60

Taxiarches
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
5,793
Reaction score
16
Points
0
Location
Alphaville Zone Sud
Faith
Christian
Jurisdiction
Orthodox
Iconodule said:
One thing I don't think gets enough credit is the Sun-Ni string cheese.
A good gourmet string cheese, along with a beef jerky, can be a decent source of protein on otherwise unpleasant road trips.
 

Brigidsboy

Elder
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 25, 2003
Messages
485
Reaction score
1
Points
18
Age
54
Location
Burbank, California
Faith
Armenian Apostolic
Jurisdiction
Armenian Patriarchate of Jerusalem
Here is the website of the Eastern Diocese, which has lots of excellent information in English.

https://armenianchurch.us/

This blog has interesting articles about the Theology of our Church:

https://www.armenianorthodoxtheology.com/

Please feel free to message me privately with questions.



raphalex said:
Hi everyone,

I have been blessed with the opportunity to participate in an Armenian Orthodox camp as a counselor, but I am actually an EO. I do not know too much about the Armenian church, and I am looking for some advice on what some differences are, and how I should best address them. Additionally, what are some things I should know/do before attending the camp?

Any advice from anyone is greatly appreciated!
 

ialmisry

Strategos
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
41,967
Reaction score
173
Points
63
Location
Chicago
One thing, be aware that they use unleavened bread and undiluted wine for the Eucharist. And they celebrate Christmas and Epiphany on the same day.
 

Brigidsboy

Elder
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 25, 2003
Messages
485
Reaction score
1
Points
18
Age
54
Location
Burbank, California
Faith
Armenian Apostolic
Jurisdiction
Armenian Patriarchate of Jerusalem
raphalex said:
Hi everyone,

I have been blessed with the opportunity to participate in an Armenian Orthodox camp as a counselor, but I am actually an EO. I do not know too much about the Armenian church, and I am looking for some advice on what some differences are, and how I should best address them. Additionally, what are some things I should know/do before attending the camp?

Any advice from anyone is greatly appreciated!

Let us know how it went. I hope it was a good experience for you.
 

Gorazd

Archon
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
2,571
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Faith
7 Councils
Jurisdiction
First without Equals
I recently was in a place where there is no EO church in communion with Constantinople, so I attended the Armenian parish instead. Nice people and warm welcome. Unfortunately, I don't speak Armenian and the only thing the priest said in the local language was who is allowed to receive communion.
 

Menas17

Sr. Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
206
Reaction score
117
Points
43
Location
SE
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antioch
Gorazd said:
I recently was in a place where there is no EO church in communion with Constantinople, so I attended the Armenian parish instead. Nice people and warm welcome. Unfortunately, I don't speak Armenian and the only thing the priest said in the local language was who is allowed to receive communion.
What were the EO parishes that were around? It was my understanding that the schism was not suppose to extend towards the faithful? Or is that only in Europe
 

DeniseDenise

Taxiarches
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
6,854
Reaction score
55
Points
48
Age
51
Faith
Does it matter?
Jurisdiction
Unverifiable, so irrelevant
Iconodule said:
One thing I don't think gets enough credit is the Sun-Ni string cheese.

Karoun is better
 

Gorazd

Archon
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
2,571
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Faith
7 Councils
Jurisdiction
First without Equals
Menas17 said:
What were the EO parishes that were around?
Moscow Patriarchate. And it does extend to the faithful, ie we're banned from receiving the holy mysteries there. But the main issue is that some MP priests have been preaching in a hostile way against the EP recently, so I wanted to avoid controversy and visited MP places only when accompanied by a local friend. The Sunday I was alone I went to the Armenians.
 

Mor Ephrem

Hypatos
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Messages
36,417
Reaction score
289
Points
83
Age
40
Location
New York!
Website
www.orthodoxchristianity.net
Faith
Mercenary Freudianism
Jurisdiction
Texas Feminist Coptic
Gorazd said:
Menas17 said:
What were the EO parishes that were around?
Moscow Patriarchate. And it does extend to the faithful, ie we're banned from receiving the holy mysteries there. But the main issue is that some MP priests have been preaching in a hostile way against the EP recently, so I wanted to avoid controversy and visited MP places only when accompanied by a local friend. The Sunday I was alone I went to the Armenians.
Is that the advice your spiritual guides are giving you (e.g., go OO when only MP is available), or is that your own decision?
 

Gorazd

Archon
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
2,571
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Faith
7 Councils
Jurisdiction
First without Equals
Mor Ephrem said:
Is that the advice your spiritual guides are giving you (e.g., go OO when only MP is available), or is that your own decision?
It is my own decision, after I was warned by friends in the MP about hostility towards the EP there.

My own priest only said there is no problem attending OO parishes, but if I want to receive any mysteries there, he would refer this question to the bishop (he is always careful with this, for example when Eritreans asked to receive mysteries from him, he first asked the bishop).

So I attended the OOs without receiving communion that Sunday.
 

Menas17

Sr. Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
206
Reaction score
117
Points
43
Location
SE
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antioch
Gorazd said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Is that the advice your spiritual guides are giving you (e.g., go OO when only MP is available), or is that your own decision?
It is my own decision, after I was warned by friends in the MP about hostility towards the EP there.

My own priest only said there is no problem attending OO parishes, but if I want to receive any mysteries there, he would refer this question to the bishop (he is always careful with this, for example when Eritreans asked to receive mysteries from him, he first asked the bishop).

So I attended the OOs without receiving communion that Sunday.
How was the liturgy?
 

Gorazd

Archon
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
2,571
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Faith
7 Councils
Jurisdiction
First without Equals
Menas17 said:
  :)How was the liturgy?
Great! I strongly recommend Armenian liturgies.
 

Alpha60

Taxiarches
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
5,793
Reaction score
16
Points
0
Location
Alphaville Zone Sud
Faith
Christian
Jurisdiction
Orthodox
Gorazd said:
Menas17 said:
  :)How was the liturgy?
Great! I strongly recommend Armenian liturgies.
I am glad you enjoyed it!  I haven’t had the chance to physically attend an Armenian service yet, but it is extremely high on my list of priorities.  Their vestments, their music, their architecture...it is simply exquisite.  Next time you might try a Syriac Orthodox liturgy or a Coptic liturgy, whichever is available first.  :)

Then, if you like spicy food, and if you want to test your pious metal, an Ethiopian church might be worth attempting; I haven’t had the chance yet, but I am strongly looking forward, as I feel the Ethiopians and the Edinovertsy / Russian Old Orthodox, have the most pious received tradition.  But as someone who had trouble just going from the extreme cushiness of Protestantism to the relative comfort of pew-equipped or chair-equipped Orthodox services which do not typically exceed three hours, maybe four at a Coptic church if I arrive for the Hours and the Morning Raising of Incense, I am not sure if I could realistically even try one of the longer Ethiopian or Edinovertsy services.  But fortunately there are services that are within the durations I am accustomed to.

In Ethiopia however, the people, who get precious little food to eat, will start showing up for parish feast days nearly 24 hours before the proper liturgy.  Then, there is a meal at which a church beer brewed from honey, and injera, the national crepes of Ethiopia, are served, followed by everyone packing into the dark interior of a rock hewn church like St. Michael’s, where they will remain standing in prayer through the night, followed by the liturgy and a procession around the church with vespers the following morning. I could not do that.  The Ethiopians win.  :)  And I have heard reports that some Russian Old Believers also do this.  Otherwise, only a handful of monasteries and monastic brotherhoods like the monks of the Holy Sepulchre do all-night vigils which last all night.
 

Gorazd

Archon
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
2,571
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Faith
7 Councils
Jurisdiction
First without Equals
Alpha60 said:
Next time you might try a Syriac Orthodox liturgy or a Coptic liturgy, whichever is available first.  :)
I have visited Coptic liturgies when I was in Egypt - luckily, some of them didn't overlap with EO liturgies.
Actually, my impression is that Coptic liturgies are the closest to EO among OO liturgies. They also have an iconostasis, and the icon style established by Isaac Fanous is similar to EO icons.

My next time? Well, in Russia it's usually MP or Armenian OO. I am not aware of any Syriac or Coptic parishes there.
If I visit India, that would be a good opportunity to see the local OOs though.
 

Menas17

Sr. Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
206
Reaction score
117
Points
43
Location
SE
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antioch
I love Coptic liturgies and go to vespers fairly often. Really love Coptic piety
 

raphalex

Newbie
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction
OCA
Aram said:
raphalex said:
Hi everyone,

I have been blessed with the opportunity to participate in an Armenian Orthodox camp as a counselor, but I am actually an EO. I do not know too much about the Armenian church, and I am looking for some advice on what some differences are, and how I should best address them. Additionally, what are some things I should know/do before attending the camp?

Any advice from anyone is greatly appreciated!
Liturgically, culturally, and spiritually, it will probably seem far different from what you're used to. Without knowing anything about you, but knowing that you're coming from the OCA, you'll probably find that the Armenian Church is far more ethnic and political, and perhaps less overtly spiritual than what you might be used to. We're a church of diaspora. Your campers may not be as liturgically comfortable or scripturally competent as you might expect. (I don't mean this as a knock, but this has been my experience as an Armenian Christian.)

That being said, we don't bite.

I would recommend being patient, kind, open, and non-judgmental. Let the campers experience their faith, make friends, and have a great experience in their own way. Take this opportunity to learn about a different corner of the Orthodox world. And do try the lamb.
I've actually been to a number of Pan-Orthodox camps, and as a proud Carpatho-Rusyn, I actually enjoy the cultural aspect of camp too :)
 

raphalex

Newbie
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction
OCA
Gorazd said:
I recently was in a place where there is no EO church in communion with Constantinople, so I attended the Armenian parish instead. Nice people and warm welcome. Unfortunately, I don't speak Armenian and the only thing the priest said in the local language was who is allowed to receive communion.
Out of curiosity, are EO's allowed to receive communion in the Armenian church? I understand that OO and EO are not in communion, but at the local Armenian church I visited, I believe it was told that we could receive communion there.
 

Mor Ephrem

Hypatos
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Messages
36,417
Reaction score
289
Points
83
Age
40
Location
New York!
Website
www.orthodoxchristianity.net
Faith
Mercenary Freudianism
Jurisdiction
Texas Feminist Coptic
raphalex said:
Gorazd said:
I recently was in a place where there is no EO church in communion with Constantinople, so I attended the Armenian parish instead. Nice people and warm welcome. Unfortunately, I don't speak Armenian and the only thing the priest said in the local language was who is allowed to receive communion.
Out of curiosity, are EO's allowed to receive communion in the Armenian church? I understand that OO and EO are not in communion, but at the local Armenian church I visited, I believe it was told that we could receive communion there.
Armenians may allow the EO to receive, but the EO usually would not allow the EO to receive from Armenians.

Edit: ask your bishop/priest.
 

Gorazd

Archon
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
2,571
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Faith
7 Councils
Jurisdiction
First without Equals
raphalex said:
Out of curiosity, are EO's allowed to receive communion in the Armenian church? I understand that OO and EO are not in communion, but at the local Armenian church I visited, I believe it was told that we could receive communion there.
Ask your priest or bishop. AFAIK it's allowed by EO Antioch, and by EO Alexandria in the case of mixed families. Others may allow it on a case by case basis, depending on circumstances.
 

Aram

High Elder
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
610
Reaction score
3
Points
18
Faith
Armenian Orthodox
raphalex said:
Gorazd said:
I recently was in a place where there is no EO church in communion with Constantinople, so I attended the Armenian parish instead. Nice people and warm welcome. Unfortunately, I don't speak Armenian and the only thing the priest said in the local language was who is allowed to receive communion.
Out of curiosity, are EO's allowed to receive communion in the Armenian church? I understand that OO and EO are not in communion, but at the local Armenian church I visited, I believe it was told that we could receive communion there.
No, you're not. Priests may do it anyway, as many seem to be non-confrontational about asking someone they don't recognize if they're a communing OO, or may make exceptions for people they know to be in mixed marriages. And others may tell you that you can receive out of ignorance. But officially, no. Why would the Armenian Church be any different in its approach to canonical communion than any other Orthodox Church?

It would be really helpful if people stopped spreading all sorts of assumptions and rumors about the Armenian Church, which seems to be most every EO discussion about Armenians here.
 
Top