Xavier
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Dear Friends, what do you think of the similarity between the Orthodox Theologoumenon of Toll-Houses and the Catholic Teaching of Purgatory? Wiki notes this: " The idea of payment of good deeds being offered to the demons shares some aspects with the Roman Catholic teaching on merits, but in the case of the Catholic Church, the merits in question are not primarily individual but those of Christ and the saints administered by the church. Indeed, Gennadios Scholarios, Patriarch of Constantinople from 1454 to 1464, "stated that the trial of the 'tollgates' was, in fact, the Byzantine equivalent of purgatory, minus the fireworks".[10] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_toll_house
One translation of Our Lord's Prayer is "Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors". Sin is often referred to in the Sacred Scriptures as a debt. Similarly in the parable of the unforgiving servant, the servant owed a debt to the master which He graciously forgave. We are given to understand that sins represents debts or debits to be paid.
Now, in the Orthodox Tradition of Toll-Houses, it is said that demons will accuse us of about 20 types of sins in different tolls. Like tolls collect taxes here on earth, we will have to pay for our sins by corresponding good works. In some stories of the Saints, it is said the Prayers of the Saints supply the payment necessary like gold coins. Isn't this similar to the Catholic idea that good works done in God's Grace, like the Prayers of the Saints, in union with Christ's Cross, are truly penitential for our sins?
Catholic teaching is that each mortal sin has two aspects (1) Guilt, corresponding to Eternal Punishment. This is always remitted in the Confessional, or in Holy Baptism, or through Perfect Contrition (if a Priest is not available in the Hour of Death, for e.g.) and (2) Temporal Punishment e.g. 10 years of penance for one mortal sin, as was often the case in the early Church. Now, if the sin is repented of, but proper penance for sin has not been done, the eternal penalty is remitted, but the temporal penalty must still be undergone. This temporal penalty can be reduced by good works. Thus, the famous passage in Daniel, "Therefore, O king, let my counsel please thee, and atone for thy sins by alms, and thine iniquities by compassion on the poor: it may be God will be long-suffering to thy trespasses." (4:27) and the admonition of St. John the Baptist: " Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of penance" (Luk 3:8), Our Lord in Revelation, " Be mindful therefore from whence thou art fallen: and do penance, and do the first works." (2:5). Do Orthodox Christians here agree that good works done in Grace, i.e. after confession, can remit the temporal punishments for ourselves and others?
Is it legitimate to think of sin as a debt which must be paid? Christ has paid the Eternal Price for our sins, which is always applied to us in Baptism or in Confession. But, in His Justice, He has left part of the price for sin, to be paid by our own good works. Therefore, we should be more motivated to abound in prayers and good works, so that by these we can minimize the penalty remaining for our sins, and also gain more merits and a higher place in heaven. Is the teaching of Toll-Houses Orthodox?
For more sources on the Aerial Toll-Houses, see also: https://orthodoxwiki.org/Aerial_Toll-Houses God Bless.
One translation of Our Lord's Prayer is "Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors". Sin is often referred to in the Sacred Scriptures as a debt. Similarly in the parable of the unforgiving servant, the servant owed a debt to the master which He graciously forgave. We are given to understand that sins represents debts or debits to be paid.
Now, in the Orthodox Tradition of Toll-Houses, it is said that demons will accuse us of about 20 types of sins in different tolls. Like tolls collect taxes here on earth, we will have to pay for our sins by corresponding good works. In some stories of the Saints, it is said the Prayers of the Saints supply the payment necessary like gold coins. Isn't this similar to the Catholic idea that good works done in God's Grace, like the Prayers of the Saints, in union with Christ's Cross, are truly penitential for our sins?
Catholic teaching is that each mortal sin has two aspects (1) Guilt, corresponding to Eternal Punishment. This is always remitted in the Confessional, or in Holy Baptism, or through Perfect Contrition (if a Priest is not available in the Hour of Death, for e.g.) and (2) Temporal Punishment e.g. 10 years of penance for one mortal sin, as was often the case in the early Church. Now, if the sin is repented of, but proper penance for sin has not been done, the eternal penalty is remitted, but the temporal penalty must still be undergone. This temporal penalty can be reduced by good works. Thus, the famous passage in Daniel, "Therefore, O king, let my counsel please thee, and atone for thy sins by alms, and thine iniquities by compassion on the poor: it may be God will be long-suffering to thy trespasses." (4:27) and the admonition of St. John the Baptist: " Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of penance" (Luk 3:8), Our Lord in Revelation, " Be mindful therefore from whence thou art fallen: and do penance, and do the first works." (2:5). Do Orthodox Christians here agree that good works done in Grace, i.e. after confession, can remit the temporal punishments for ourselves and others?
Is it legitimate to think of sin as a debt which must be paid? Christ has paid the Eternal Price for our sins, which is always applied to us in Baptism or in Confession. But, in His Justice, He has left part of the price for sin, to be paid by our own good works. Therefore, we should be more motivated to abound in prayers and good works, so that by these we can minimize the penalty remaining for our sins, and also gain more merits and a higher place in heaven. Is the teaching of Toll-Houses Orthodox?
For more sources on the Aerial Toll-Houses, see also: https://orthodoxwiki.org/Aerial_Toll-Houses God Bless.
just see the Martyrs they indeed defy authorities altho not with hate in their hearths, and the Love is expressed when You are Praying for all even those that hate You or torment You, now even I am not still on that level to pray for the secrete services and their masters freemasons, but hope I will be one day ... maybe from help will be notion that such custom exists i.e. the sin of despising others because their fallen nature or deeds, they are like sick people so one not need to add further to their sickness, still its feat to endure their sick side effects and stay calm eg. not seeing politicians as guilty for something inbetween their policies what usually I am succeeding hen remind myself that those that are high are fighting with all kind of spiritual temptations thus its not helpful to stumble them with anger further but if You can help them anyhow at least small traditional prayers ...
