Even if there is such possibility, my cat won't manage to do it.walter1234 said:
If God created animals in the beginning, then animals probably will be in the Kingdom.walter1234 said:
I hope soJetavan said:
God created slime. Animals were just the middle part while God was waiting for us! :angel:Jetavan said:
I'm not sure if it's unnatural for animals. I've heard a few different opinions on this. Some talk about death occurring in the Garden before the Fall - as it would have had to for Adam and Eve to eat, even if they were only eating plants. Others say that only humans were created with the potential for immortality, and animals weren't.IoanC said:
I hope He doesn't recreate mosquitoes.IoanC said:
I think that something of how that animal glorified God and gave thanks to God through the way it existed will be redeemed and re-capitulated in the Kingdom of God.walter1234 said:
I presume there will be animals in the Kingdom of God, as God chose to create them and continually sustains them and relates to them lovingly.walter1234 said:
You must at least acknowledge that God facilitates the death of animals.IoanC said:
I acknowledge, as long as you are not suggesting that God relishes the opportunity to facilitate death.NicholasMyra said:
The fact that He needs to feed animals in such a horrific way is again just another unnatural consequence of the fall into sin.
I often wonder...IoanC said:
But we do, I mean, we do it in a factory, just not at home.IoanC said:
I remember when the Simpsons did Adam and Eve with Homer and Marge, Homer took some bacon from a live pig and the pig happily ran away afterwards alive ;DNephi said:
Human biological death is only one result of the Spiritual Death of the Fall. I believe it was St. Irenaeus who said that God gave man over to biological death in order to limit his Spiritual Death, and so that he would not become some sort of lingering corrupted monster, compounding his corruption into infinity.choy said:
Animals are not material things. They are not created in the image and likeness of God, but they are still beings, capable of experience feelings (joy, tenderness, love, pain), of relating to other animals and ourselves, of a certain intelligence. So, if they can be a recipient for God's love, then God will want them.choy said:
God will recreate all that is capable of experiencing His love. If He can make them now and provide for them, how much more in the Age to Come. Doesn't matter if they are pets, as long as they are capable of experiencing God's love for them.Shanghaiski said:
Patristic sources?IoanC said:
I've heard them, but I can't provide any. Fr. - MK Thomas Hopko's podcast is all I remember as far as other people saying these things. Anyway, it would be anti-life to think that God would not extend His love to all the beings that He can. Why did He make all this? If they are worthwhile now, why can't they continue to be forever? And, death was not the initial plan for creation, but eternal life. The animals that Adam named were not supposed to die. So then if those animals were not supposed to die, why would others? Plus, animals are not things. If there can be a bond and feelings between us and animals, if animals know who we are and get used to us, then it would be very sad if they were not remade, if God was to ever remake anything.Shanghaiski said:
I am not very knowledgeable on the subject, but according to what I have learned so far, this is not Orthodox teaching. That is that animals have joy, tenderness and love. Pain yes, but a physical pain, not emotional. Animals act according to their nature whereas humans currently in the fallen world do not.IoanC said:
Nor will mine!Michał Kalina said:
Not at all Orthodox teaching as far as I know. Would mean that animals are robots or objects. I think that confusion arises when we say that men are created in the image and likeness of God, whereas animals are not. This means that animals are not in charge of themselves, but not that they are not capable of feelings, intelligence and bonding; they are capable, but their life is solely guided by The Holy Spirit. We are also guided by The Holy Spirit, but we also have the choice to accept or reject God. Animals are more like children. And I don't think we need anybody to tell us that animals experience joy, tenderness, even love. We can see this for ourselves. Personally, my interactions with animals have been very meaningful, intelligent and I had a feeling that there was an actual relationship between us, a progressive relationship. In no way would I accept to not consider them my friends and simply expect that they will go into nothingness as if they are objects. This is so contrary to the loving nature of God.choy said:
Yes. I have a cat everyday of my life until I left the Philippines when I was 30 (not too long ago). They all have names, and I love them very much. But I make no false pretenses about their humanity. I would imagine they do have emotion and all, I would even make up dialogues in my mind among them and between them and me. But at the end of the day, I know those are all made up. My brain is naturally very analytic, I do watch and observe and ponder on what I see. Because the Philippines is a tropical country, cats don't stay indoors. There is no winter that would kill them if they stay outdoors. Thus they are semi-feral. It is interesting the dynamics of cats in their natural instincts. I have seen other cats or even my own cats kill kittens of one of my felines, those who they feel will be a threat to their dominance of the territory.LBK said:
Animals such as dogs, cats, and horses are quite capable of interacting and communicating with us through facial expression, vocal expression, and gesture/bodily posture. These behaviors are neither random nor purely instinctive. To say that they are incapable of feeling and expressing emotions such as joy, sorrow, puzzlement, contentment, contempt, and, yes, love and grief, is simply wrong. This is not anthropomorphism, it's simply a fact.
I've heard about dozens of cases when animals rescued other animals or humans.choy said:
And there are many accounts of dogs standing guard over the dead body of their human master, not allowing others to approach; I know of a police horse which defused a situation by bringing its front hoof down on the foot of an abusive drunk and fixing its gaze on him to prove his point; and I could tell of many stories of my own cats over the years which prove time and again that they well and truly have emotions, and aren't shy about showing them.Michał Kalina said:
Actually, elephants have been known to express emotional pain and grieve deeply over the loss of a member of the herd.choy said:
