After the death of animails

choy

Archon
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
2,316
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Michał Kalina said:
I've heard about dozens of cases when animals rescued other animals or humans.
As opposed to the billions of times they either ignored or ate that animal or human that needs saving.
 

choy

Archon
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
2,316
Reaction score
0
Points
0
stavros_388 said:
It is true. The more we learn about animals and animal behaviour, the more we understand that they feel emotions, sometimes deeply, build friendship bonds, demonstrate altruism and self-sacrifice, mourn the dead, and so on.
How do we know they feel emotions in the way we define emotions?
 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
29
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
choy said:
Michał Kalina said:
I've heard about dozens of cases when animals rescued other animals or humans.
As opposed to the billions of times they either ignored or ate that animal or human that needs saving.
Never heard about such a case.
 

choy

Archon
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
2,316
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Michał Kalina said:
choy said:
Michał Kalina said:
I've heard about dozens of cases when animals rescued other animals or humans.
As opposed to the billions of times they either ignored or ate that animal or human that needs saving.
Never heard about such a case.
Yes, ignoring is not very newsworthy.  Though you should pay attention when there are bear attacks or mountain lion attacks in your area.  Depends where you are of course.
 

Shanghaiski

Taxiarches
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
Messages
7,981
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
41
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Michał Kalina said:
choy said:
Michał Kalina said:
I've heard about dozens of cases when animals rescued other animals or humans.
As opposed to the billions of times they either ignored or ate that animal or human that needs saving.
Never heard about such a case.
You've never heard of people being eaten by animals?
 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
29
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
Shanghaiski said:
Michał Kalina said:
choy said:
Michał Kalina said:
I've heard about dozens of cases when animals rescued other animals or humans.
As opposed to the billions of times they either ignored or ate that animal or human that needs saving.
Never heard about such a case.
You've never heard of people being eaten by animals?
A detailed, news-covered story about an animal attacking a human that had been in some dangerous situation eaten by an animal that seized the opportunity? No.
 

Shanghaiski

Taxiarches
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
Messages
7,981
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
41
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Michał Kalina said:
Shanghaiski said:
Michał Kalina said:
choy said:
Michał Kalina said:
I've heard about dozens of cases when animals rescued other animals or humans.
As opposed to the billions of times they either ignored or ate that animal or human that needs saving.
Never heard about such a case.
You've never heard of people being eaten by animals?
A detailed, news-covered story about an animal attacking a human that had been in some dangerous situation eaten by an animal that seized the opportunity? No.
You seem to be adding conditions.
 

stavros_388

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Messages
1,325
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Canada
choy said:
Michał Kalina said:
I've heard about dozens of cases when animals rescued other animals or humans.
As opposed to the billions of times they either ignored or ate that animal or human that needs saving.
No one is suggesting that all animals are "saints" or anything. But they certainly aren't just emotionless commodities.
 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
29
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
Shanghaiski said:
Michał Kalina said:
Shanghaiski said:
Michał Kalina said:
choy said:
Michał Kalina said:
I've heard about dozens of cases when animals rescued other animals or humans.
As opposed to the billions of times they either ignored or ate that animal or human that needs saving.
Never heard about such a case.
You've never heard of people being eaten by animals?
A detailed, news-covered story about an animal attacking a human that had been in some dangerous situation eaten by an animal that seized the opportunity? No.
You seem to be adding conditions.
I've also seen that humans ate other humans, murdered children and preagnant women. Does it mean humans are emotionless too?
 

stavros_388

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Messages
1,325
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Canada
choy said:
stavros_388 said:
It is true. The more we learn about animals and animal behaviour, the more we understand that they feel emotions, sometimes deeply, build friendship bonds, demonstrate altruism and self-sacrifice, mourn the dead, and so on.
How do we know they feel emotions in the way we define emotions?
There is no way that we can know that exactly. But I don't think it takes a very thorough examination of recent books and studies on zoology or animal behaviour to see that some of them are capable of experiencing emotions that appear to be very much like those we experience.

Maybe try exploring some of these titles if you are interested:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Emotional-Lives-Animals-Scientist/dp/1577316290/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t
http://www.amazon.com/When-Elephants-Weep-Emotional-Animals/dp/0385314280/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1357919947&sr=1-1&keywords=when+elephants+weep+the+emotional+lives+of+animals

EDIT: Decided not to open different can of worms here...
 

choy

Archon
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
2,316
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Michał Kalina said:
I've also seen that humans ate other humans, murdered children and preagnant women. Does it mean humans are emotionless too?
Don't we call those who do that "animals"?
 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
29
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
choy said:
Michał Kalina said:
I've also seen that humans ate other humans, murdered children and preagnant women. Does it mean humans are emotionless too?
Don't we call those who do that "animals"?
Animals expect from hunting do not fight to death. After a while the weaker one accepts its defeat, lies on the ground and surrenders. The victorious one lets it go. Only humans execute beaten up opponents.
 

choy

Archon
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
2,316
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Michał Kalina said:
Animals expect from hunting do not fight to death.
They do actually.  I've seen it many times.  Among my pets even.  Cats and dogs.  As I mentioned above, cats commit infanticide (or kittenicide, if you wish) to protect their alpha status.  Territorial disputes can and do turn ugly.  We've had dogs once that when the other one came as a puppy, the older one was really mean to him.  The puppy grew up to be a bigger dog (they were mongrels so we don't know if what breed they are and how big they will get) and every opportunity he had he would viciously attack the other dog.  These are well fed house dogs, not feral, fighting for survival dogs.  The only reason the other dog didn't die was because we intervened.  But he was never the same, obviously physical trauma from the numerous attacks.  We literally had to create a wall between our front and back yards to keep them apart until we found someone to take the other dog.

Michał Kalina said:
After a while the weaker one accepts its defeat, lies on the ground and surrenders. The victorious one lets it go. Only humans execute beaten up opponents.
As noted above, that is completely not true.  Stop watching animal planet which is run by the PETA types who try to convince us that animals are better than us.
 

Eastern Mind

High Elder
Joined
Sep 9, 2011
Messages
721
Reaction score
0
Points
0
stavros_388 said:
I LOVE Animal Planet.   :)

Nat Geo Wild is great too.
My favorite program on Animal Planet is Big Cat Diaries :) I also like their docs on elephants. Cats and elephants are two of my favorite animals! I think God gave me a special love for them, because I love their company.
 

stavros_388

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Messages
1,325
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Canada
Eastern Mind said:
stavros_388 said:
I LOVE Animal Planet.   :)

Nat Geo Wild is great too.
My favorite program on Animal Planet is Big Cat Diaries :) I also like their docs on elephants. Cats and elephants are two of my favorite animals! I think God gave me a special love for them, because I love their company.
I've never had the privilege of enjoying an elephant's company. Perhaps one day! Every elephant I've met has seemed really nice, though.  ;D
 

Eastern Mind

High Elder
Joined
Sep 9, 2011
Messages
721
Reaction score
0
Points
0
stavros_388 said:
Eastern Mind said:
stavros_388 said:
I LOVE Animal Planet.   :)

Nat Geo Wild is great too.
My favorite program on Animal Planet is Big Cat Diaries :) I also like their docs on elephants. Cats and elephants are two of my favorite animals! I think God gave me a special love for them, because I love their company.
I've never had the privilege of enjoying an elephant's company. Perhaps one day! Every elephant I've met has seemed really nice, though.  ;D
Haha! Well, I've never met an elephant in the wild, but I got to pet an elephant at the zoo once.  :D They are awesome and one day I shall ride one! hehe.
 

choy

Archon
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
2,316
Reaction score
0
Points
0
NicholasMyra said:
Choy, I'm not sure you understand what an emotion is.
Of course I do.

Do you know that if you separate mother cats from their kittens for about a week, they completely forget about their kittens and lose their maternal instinct?  So much for "emotional attachment".  Even if they walk past their kittens after that week, they won't even acknowledge them.  So much for intellect.
 

Cyrillic

Toumarches
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
13,710
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
25
Location
Netherlands
I hope there'll be cats. Not dogs, though. I hate dogs and they hate me.
 
Top