- Oct 6, 2010
- Reaction score
St Basil clearly makes distinctionsrakovsky said:I discuss St. Basil on page 2 of the thread, where I focused on these quotes:Ioannes said:However using St. Basil is absurd because he wrote canons discussing this very issue.
Basil's Canon 188 to which you refer also says:rakovsky said:Gebre said:
“I believe with St. Basil the Great that, “Although the act of violence may seem required for the defense of the weak and innocent, it is never justifiable.”
Basil... canons show (188th letter) [his opinion]. For instance canon 13 of the 92 considers war: “Our fathers did not consider killings committed in the course of wars to be classifiable as murders at all, on the score, it seems to me, of allowing a pardon to men fighting in defense of sobriety and piety. Perhaps, though, it might be advisable to refuse them communion for three years, on the ground that their hands are not clean.”
Using St. Basil and his canons to support pacifism and avoidance of war is not absurd.On the other hand acts done in the attacks of war or robbery are distinctly intentional, and admit of no doubt. Robbers kill for greed, and to avoid conviction. Soldiers who inflict death in war do so with the obvious purpose not of fighting, nor chastising, but of killing their opponents.
- 1. Soldiers in war inflict death intentionally, as do robbers.
2. Violence may sometimes seem required but it is never justifiable.
3. The church fathers did not consider war murder.
4. War is sometimes pardonable.
5. Soldiers' hands are unclean.
6. Maybe soldiers should be refused communion for three years
If you pardon someone it means they did something wrong, but you forgive them. The idea of something being ritually unclean means something is bad or very problematic about it. 3 years of uncleanness is a long time.
St. Basil's canon does not say war is ever necessary. He says it is an unjustifiable and very unclean act of intentional killing and that it can be pardoned in some cases.
St. Basil obviously takes a very negative view of war, and his negative view can be used to support pacifism. One can reasonably claim that if war is unjustifiable and very negative, then it is not something holy people - Christians - should ever do. You do not have to agree with this explanation, but it is hardly absurd either.
Someone who kills willfully is a murderer, bus in self defence is not the same (Canon VIII)
Canon XIII, the fathers didn't see killing in war as Murder, but 3 years from communion should suffice.
go here http://www.incommunion.org/2006/02/19/st-basil-on-war-and-repentance/
Also, here are the canons http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf214.toc.html