Against Gebredoxy, the error of (name removed) (AKA Gebre Menfes Kidus)

Ioannes

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rakovsky said:
Ioannes said:
Pacifism is defined as all violence, including war, are unjustifiable.
There's different definitions.
Pacifism is opposition to war and violence. The word pacifism was coined by the French peace campaigner Émile Arnaud (1864–1921) and adopted by other peace activists at the tenth Universal Peace Congress in Glasgow in 1901. (The Abolition of War: the Peace Movement in Britain, 1914-1919 by Keith Robbins. University of Wales Press, 1976. ISBN 978-0-7083-0622-2 (p.10)

So, perhaps it does not extend to bloody combat sports.
 

LBK

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Michał Kalina said:
LizaSymonenko said:
LOL!  I would be impressed to see proof that some of the icons in the Schlock icon thread are canonically Orthodox icons.

I believe, it would be easier to find sources to support her statements, than to refute them.
Nevertheless, there were some people, priests or bishops who consider them OK. That means it's their opinion vs. LBK's opinion.
Which ones, Michal? Oh, wait, this "Mother of God, Patroness of Football"  was blessed by a Byzantine Catholic bishop, and a Ukrainian Orthodox priest.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=If_Ipj81kdY

By your logic, this makes this image suitable for veneration. Ri-iiight ....  
 

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LBK said:
Michał Kalina said:
LizaSymonenko said:
LOL!  I would be impressed to see proof that some of the icons in the Schlock icon thread are canonically Orthodox icons.

I believe, it would be easier to find sources to support her statements, than to refute them.
Nevertheless, there were some people, priests or bishops who consider them OK. That means it's their opinion vs. LBK's opinion.
Which ones, Michal? Oh, wait, this "Mother of God, Patroness of Football"  was blessed by a Byzantine Catholic bishop, and a Ukrainian Orthodox priest.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=If_Ipj81kdY

By your logic, this makes this image suitable for veneration. Ri-iiight ....  
Oh, dear........ :(
 

mike

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LBK said:
Iconoclasm is a declared heresy, the Church has anathematized the iconoclasts, and continues to do so to this day at the Synodikon of Orthodoxy on the Sunday of Orthodoxy.
We are not talking about iconoclasm. We are talking about saints directing hands in allegedly wrong (not-Orthodox) direction.

Many aspects of iconography I have written about over the years are in the light of formal and universal declarations by the Church.
Which of those you shared none. Gebre is better in this case than you since he tries to validate his claims somehow.

Last time I checked, war was not a declared heresy.
Icons without stars neither.

LBK said:
Supply proof that I have been in error when I post on iconography.
I'm not saying you are wrong. I am saying you are authoritarian and do not validate your thesises.

Do you object to that?
No, neither I really object to what Gebre does.

LBK said:
Michał Kalina said:
LizaSymonenko said:
LOL!  I would be impressed to see proof that some of the icons in the Schlock icon thread are canonically Orthodox icons.

I believe, it would be easier to find sources to support her statements, than to refute them.
Nevertheless, there were some people, priests or bishops who consider them OK. That means it's their opinion vs. LBK's opinion.
Which ones, Michal? Oh, wait, this "Mother of God, Patroness of Football"  was blessed by a Byzantine Catholic bishop, and a Ukrainian Orthodox priest.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=If_Ipj81kdY

By your logic, this makes this image suitable for veneration. Ri-iiight ....  
I neither consider Greek Catholics or Kiev Patriarchate to be my bishops. But if I found it in my church I would venerate it.
 

LBK

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Santagranddad said:
LBK said:
Michał Kalina said:
LizaSymonenko said:
LOL!  I would be impressed to see proof that some of the icons in the Schlock icon thread are canonically Orthodox icons.

I believe, it would be easier to find sources to support her statements, than to refute them.
Nevertheless, there were some people, priests or bishops who consider them OK. That means it's their opinion vs. LBK's opinion.
Which ones, Michal? Oh, wait, this "Mother of God, Patroness of Football"  was blessed by a Byzantine Catholic bishop, and a Ukrainian Orthodox priest.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=If_Ipj81kdY

By your logic, this makes this image suitable for veneration. Ri-iiight ....  
Oh, dear........ :(
Indeed. The image was commissioned for the then-upcoming soccer Euro 2012 tournament, jointly hosted by Poland and Ukraine. It is a complete disgrace to the clergy who participated in the commissioning and blessing of this monstrosity, and to the iconographer who painted it.  :mad: :mad:

Much could be written about the iconographic nonsense present in this image, from the ball between Christ’s hands (looks like He’s just saved a goal – I can hear the stampede of team managers rushing to sign up the Holy Goalie – and what a great slogan: “We have GOD on our side!”), to the Mother of God pointing to the soccer pitch as the way to salvation.  :p  :p :p

All that’s needed now is for some clown to write an akathist to the Mother of God “Patroness of Soccer” …. Don't laugh, folks - akathists have been written for Rasputin.

 

TheTrisagion

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LBK said:
Santagranddad said:
LBK said:
Michał Kalina said:
LizaSymonenko said:
LOL!  I would be impressed to see proof that some of the icons in the Schlock icon thread are canonically Orthodox icons.

I believe, it would be easier to find sources to support her statements, than to refute them.
Nevertheless, there were some people, priests or bishops who consider them OK. That means it's their opinion vs. LBK's opinion.
Which ones, Michal? Oh, wait, this "Mother of God, Patroness of Football"  was blessed by a Byzantine Catholic bishop, and a Ukrainian Orthodox priest.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=If_Ipj81kdY

By your logic, this makes this image suitable for veneration. Ri-iiight ....  
Oh, dear........ :(
Indeed. The image was commissioned for the then-upcoming soccer Euro 2012 tournament, jointly hosted by Poland and Ukraine. It is a complete disgrace to the clergy who participated in the commissioning and blessing of this monstrosity, and to the iconographer who painted it.  :mad: :mad:

Much could be written about the iconographic nonsense present in this image, from the ball between Christ’s hands (looks like He’s just saved a goal – I can hear the stampede of team managers rushing to sign up the Holy Goalie – and what a great slogan: “We have GOD on our side!”), to the Mother of God pointing to the soccer pitch as the way to salvation.  :p  :p :p

All that’s needed now is for some clown to write an akathist to the Mother of God “Patroness of Soccer” …. Don't laugh, folks - akathists have been written for Rasputin.
Don't be ridiculous.  It would be the Patroness of Football.  Soccer is just a silly American word.  :p
 

LBK

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Michał Kalina said:
We are not talking about iconoclasm. We are talking about saints directing hands in allegedly wrong (not-Orthodox) direction.
What on earth are you talking about?  ???

Which of those you shared none. Gebre is better in this case than you since he tries to validate his claims somehow.
You've been reading my posts with your eyes firmly shut, then. Obviously my use of scripture, hymnography, conciliar rulings, history and patristic writings to support what I write isn't good enough for you.  ::)

Michał Kalina said:
Last time I checked, war was not a declared heresy.
Icons without stars neither.
The denial of the dogma of the ever-virginity of the Mother of God is a declared heresy. Omitting the stars since the time of the ecumenical council which declared her ever-virginity as dogma is, in effect, denying her ever-virginity.

Michał Kalina said:
LBK said:
Supply proof that I have been in error when I post on iconography.
I'm not saying you are wrong. I am saying you are authoritarian and do not validate your thesises.
See above. And see Fr George's post # 285 in this thread. You might learn something if you condescend to do so.

Michał Kalina said:
I neither consider Greek Catholics or Kiev Patriarchate to be my bishops. But if I found it in my church I would venerate it.
Then you would be a fool for doing so, knowing how utterly unsuitable for veneration this image is.
 

LBK

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TheTrisagion said:
Don't be ridiculous.  It would be the Patroness of Football.  Soccer is just a silly American word.  :p
I know. But the majority of readers here are Americans, where the dominant football code is not a game played with a round ball.  ;)
 

TheTrisagion

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LBK said:
Icons without stars neither.
The denial of the dogma of the ever-virginity of the Mother of God is a declared heresy. Omitting the stars since the ecumenical council which declared her ever-virginity as dogma is, in effect, denying her ever-virginity.
The denial of that Christ is God is a declared heresy.  Wearing shoes during the Divine Liturgy is, in effect, denying the divinity of Christ.  God told Moses to remove his sandals because he was on holy ground, being in the presence of God.  If the Mysteries are truly the body and blood of Christ, and yet we keep our shoes on in it's presence, we are denying the divinity of Christ.

Coptics, here I come!  ;D
 

LizaSymonenko

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TheTrisagion said:
LBK said:
Icons without stars neither.
The denial of the dogma of the ever-virginity of the Mother of God is a declared heresy. Omitting the stars since the ecumenical council which declared her ever-virginity as dogma is, in effect, denying her ever-virginity.
The denial of that Christ is God is a declared heresy.  Wearing shoes during the Divine Liturgy is, in effect, denying the divinity of Christ.  God told Moses to remove his sandals because he was on holy ground, being in the presence of God.  If the Mysteries are truly the body and blood of Christ, and yet we keep our shoes on in it's presence, we are denying the divinity of Christ.

Coptics, here I come!  ;D
I have often wondered about the whole shoe thing.

I can only imagine that feet stink, and it would be more of a respect not to "air" them before God.

Plus, a vast number of faithful live in freezing climates.  If our noses, which are a few feet up from the ground, freeze while in church, imagine what bare feet on the cold floor would do.

 

TheTrisagion

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LizaSymonenko said:
TheTrisagion said:
LBK said:
Icons without stars neither.
The denial of the dogma of the ever-virginity of the Mother of God is a declared heresy. Omitting the stars since the ecumenical council which declared her ever-virginity as dogma is, in effect, denying her ever-virginity.
The denial of that Christ is God is a declared heresy.  Wearing shoes during the Divine Liturgy is, in effect, denying the divinity of Christ.  God told Moses to remove his sandals because he was on holy ground, being in the presence of God.  If the Mysteries are truly the body and blood of Christ, and yet we keep our shoes on in it's presence, we are denying the divinity of Christ.

Coptics, here I come!  ;D
I have often wondered about the whole shoe thing.

I can only imagine that feet stink, and it would be more of a respect not to "air" them before God.

Plus, a vast number of faithful live in freezing climates.  If our noses, which are a few feet up from the ground, freeze while in church, imagine what bare feet on the cold floor would do.
HERETIC!

We should be annointing one another's feet with oil and cleaning them with our hair and tears in rememberance of the woman who came in penitence to Christ.  Do you now deny the necessity of repentance!?!

Cold feet is just part of the ascetical practice.  Do you now deny ascetical worship as well? You might as well go join Joel Osteen.

:p
 

LizaSymonenko

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Well....Joel does provide nice cushy seats, with individual arm rests.

As for anointing each other's feet with oil....don't get overly zealous.

Remember, she anointed Christ's feet, not Joe's or Sam's.
 

Mor Ephrem

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LizaSymonenko said:
I can only imagine that feet stink, and it would be more of a respect not to "air" them before God.
But do feet stink naturally, or only because we keep them covered with socks and shoes most of the time?  I am from a tradition where we never wear shoes inside the nave, and I haven't noticed any smell of stinking feet.  

One point of which shoe-wearers are not often cognizant is where their shoes have been before they enter the nave.  People step in mud, dirty water, animal feces, roads covered with oil from automobiles, etc.  And then, they come to church wearing those shoes.  They approach the chalice wearing those shoes.  If they are the priest or the bishop, they stand at the holy altar with those shoes.  I understand that shoe-wearers don't think of those things when they put their shoes on, but frankly I am scandalised every time I see it.  

There have been times where I visited EO churches and the priest allowed me to enter the altar area, or where I was even allowed to commune because economy was applied.  I always took off my shoes to approach the chalice or enter the altar, even if I kept them on otherwise so as not to look completely out of place.  I don't know how else to do it.  I don't know why you wouldn't take off your shoes...    

Plus, a vast number of faithful live in freezing climates.  If our noses, which are a few feet up from the ground, freeze while in church, imagine what bare feet on the cold floor would do.
...and there's at least one good reason.  :)
 

LBK

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TheTrisagion said:
LizaSymonenko said:
TheTrisagion said:
LBK said:
Icons without stars neither.
The denial of the dogma of the ever-virginity of the Mother of God is a declared heresy. Omitting the stars since the ecumenical council which declared her ever-virginity as dogma is, in effect, denying her ever-virginity.
The denial of that Christ is God is a declared heresy.  Wearing shoes during the Divine Liturgy is, in effect, denying the divinity of Christ.  God told Moses to remove his sandals because he was on holy ground, being in the presence of God.  If the Mysteries are truly the body and blood of Christ, and yet we keep our shoes on in it's presence, we are denying the divinity of Christ.

Coptics, here I come!  ;D
I have often wondered about the whole shoe thing.

I can only imagine that feet stink, and it would be more of a respect not to "air" them before God.

Plus, a vast number of faithful live in freezing climates.  If our noses, which are a few feet up from the ground, freeze while in church, imagine what bare feet on the cold floor would do.
HERETIC!

We should be annointing one another's feet with oil and cleaning them with our hair and tears in rememberance of the woman who came in penitence to Christ.  Do you now deny the necessity of repentance!?!

Cold feet is just part of the ascetical practice.  Do you now deny ascetical worship as well? You might as well go join Joel Osteen.

:p
TheTrisagion, are you channeling 88Devin12?  :laugh:
 

TheTrisagion

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LizaSymonenko said:
Well....Joel does provide nice cushy seats, with individual arm rests.

As for anointing each other's feet with oil....don't get overly zealous.

Remember, she anointed Christ's feet, not Joe's or Sam's.
Your heretical teachings just get worse and worse!  Did you not know that we are to see Christ in all who we come in contact with?  I see now that you are anti-Trinitarian and do not even believe in the existence of God the Son. May St. Matthew rebuke your sinfulness through his passage of the sheep and the goats.
Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
I'm not sure if even Joel Osteen will accept you now.  Oh wait...as long as you send him a donation, he probably will.  ;D
 

TheTrisagion

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LBK said:
TheTrisagion said:
LizaSymonenko said:
TheTrisagion said:
LBK said:
Icons without stars neither.
The denial of the dogma of the ever-virginity of the Mother of God is a declared heresy. Omitting the stars since the ecumenical council which declared her ever-virginity as dogma is, in effect, denying her ever-virginity.
The denial of that Christ is God is a declared heresy.  Wearing shoes during the Divine Liturgy is, in effect, denying the divinity of Christ.  God told Moses to remove his sandals because he was on holy ground, being in the presence of God.  If the Mysteries are truly the body and blood of Christ, and yet we keep our shoes on in it's presence, we are denying the divinity of Christ.

Coptics, here I come!  ;D
I have often wondered about the whole shoe thing.

I can only imagine that feet stink, and it would be more of a respect not to "air" them before God.

Plus, a vast number of faithful live in freezing climates.  If our noses, which are a few feet up from the ground, freeze while in church, imagine what bare feet on the cold floor would do.
HERETIC!

We should be annointing one another's feet with oil and cleaning them with our hair and tears in rememberance of the woman who came in penitence to Christ.  Do you now deny the necessity of repentance!?!

Cold feet is just part of the ascetical practice.  Do you now deny ascetical worship as well? You might as well go join Joel Osteen.

:p
TheTrisagion, are you channeling 88Devin12?  :laugh:
ME?  :angel:

I would never use satire to give anyone a tweak.  I'm a very serious minded individual.  Everyone knows that.  :laugh:
 

LizaSymonenko

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Mor Ephrem said:
LizaSymonenko said:
I can only imagine that feet stink, and it would be more of a respect not to "air" them before God.
But do feet stink naturally, or only because we keep them covered with socks and shoes most of the time?  I am from a tradition where we never wear shoes inside the nave, and I haven't noticed any smell of stinking feet.  

One point of which shoe-wearers are not often cognizant is where their shoes have been before they enter the nave.  People step in mud, dirty water, animal feces, roads covered with oil from automobiles, etc.  And then, they come to church wearing those shoes.  They approach the chalice wearing those shoes.  If they are the priest or the bishop, they stand at the holy altar with those shoes.  I understand that shoe-wearers don't think of those things when they put their shoes on, but frankly I am scandalised every time I see it.  
As I said...I have often wondered about this.

We normally take our shoes off when we step in our homes, because we don't want to spread not only the mud and dirt, but, who-knows-what, onto our carpets and in to our rooms.

I know that you take of your shoes, as do the Muslims, Hindus, etc.

....and I always remember God's instructions to Moses.

I can only assume that we wear shoes out of Economia, due to most of us living in cold climates.
 

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LBK said:
What on earth are you talking about?  ???
Something like that for example: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,47878.msg977540.html#msg977540

You've been reading my posts with your eyes firmly shut, then. Obviously my use of scripture, hymnography, conciliar rulings, history and patristic writings to support what I write isn't good enough for you.  ::)
Where do you do that? Show me a couple of examples.

The denial of the dogma of the ever-virginity of the Mother of God is a declared heresy. Omitting the stars since the time of the ecumenical council which declared her ever-virginity as dogma is, in effect, denying her ever-virginity.
Says anonymous woman on the Internet. Not buying it.
 

TheTrisagion

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LizaSymonenko said:
Mor Ephrem said:
LizaSymonenko said:
I can only imagine that feet stink, and it would be more of a respect not to "air" them before God.
But do feet stink naturally, or only because we keep them covered with socks and shoes most of the time?  I am from a tradition where we never wear shoes inside the nave, and I haven't noticed any smell of stinking feet.  

One point of which shoe-wearers are not often cognizant is where their shoes have been before they enter the nave.  People step in mud, dirty water, animal feces, roads covered with oil from automobiles, etc.  And then, they come to church wearing those shoes.  They approach the chalice wearing those shoes.  If they are the priest or the bishop, they stand at the holy altar with those shoes.  I understand that shoe-wearers don't think of those things when they put their shoes on, but frankly I am scandalised every time I see it.  
As I said...I have often wondered about this.

We normally take our shoes off when we step in our homes, because we don't want to spread not only the mud and dirt, but, who-knows-what, onto our carpets and in to our rooms.

I know that you take of your shoes, as do the Muslims, Hindus, etc.

....and I always remember God's instructions to Moses.

I can only assume that we wear shoes out of Economia, due to most of us living in cold climates.
There can be no economia when it comes to heresy.  :mad:

:-*
 

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LizaSymonenko said:
TheTrisagion said:
LBK said:
Icons without stars neither.
The denial of the dogma of the ever-virginity of the Mother of God is a declared heresy. Omitting the stars since the ecumenical council which declared her ever-virginity as dogma is, in effect, denying her ever-virginity.
The denial of that Christ is God is a declared heresy.  Wearing shoes during the Divine Liturgy is, in effect, denying the divinity of Christ.  God told Moses to remove his sandals because he was on holy ground, being in the presence of God.  If the Mysteries are truly the body and blood of Christ, and yet we keep our shoes on in it's presence, we are denying the divinity of Christ.

Coptics, here I come!  ;D
I have often wondered about the whole shoe thing.

I can only imagine that feet stink, and it would be more of a respect not to "air" them before God.

Plus, a vast number of faithful live in freezing climates.  If our noses, which are a few feet up from the ground, freeze while in church, imagine what bare feet on the cold floor would do.
There is a theological solution to this problem:

http://youtu.be/msQJyUfOTp0

Odor eaters!
 
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