- Mar 4, 2010
- Reaction score
"Kill" is not the root meaning of the word. Destruction in reference to persons would almost always imply killing. Hence, the word is more or less equivalent to "kill."Aeschere said:I'm not sure that he's assuming that death implies annihilation. He is just saying that if we look at the context, it is extremely unlikely that apollumi would mean "lost" or "ruined," and that the meaning that is left to us is the one that refers to literal death. (I also don't see how he showed that in certain contexts apollumi is roughly equivalent to kill. It literally means kill. As in, beheading or caught in a nuclear explosion kill.)Rufus said:I'm not trying to argue that the word doesn't means "destroy." I am simply arguing that it does not imply annihilation. The reasoning in the article is circular. His shows that in certain contexts, apollymi is roughly equivalent to kill. Then, he assumes that death implies annihilation, which is exactly what is being disputed in the first place: is the second death an annihilation?Aeschere said:What do you know, my computer crashed, too, LBK. It was a good thing, though, since I was spending way too much time on the internet.
Anyway, I have to prepare for a retreat before my next class, but I don't want to wait until after the weekend to respond. It seems like everyone is getting hung up on who is committing the fallacy of illegitimate totality transfer, what the Hebrew and Greek words translated as "perish," "die," "slay," etc. mean (Aramaic is only used a few times in the Bible, and I'm not sure if any of those times are about this subject.), and some Revelation verses and parables of Jesus that seem to imply eternal conscious torment. I'll have to be quick, so I'll mostly just post articles answering you concerns. Sorry! I usually try not to do this.
For the word meaning subject, this article is good: http://www.rethinkinghell.com/2012/10/the-meaning-of-apollumi-in-the-synoptic-gospels/ It's about the Greek word, but the same principle about illegitimate totality transfer would still apply. There's more articles on that website, too.
For the parable of the ten virgins, I don't know of a specific article, but I asked about it elsewhere. I should have something for the people here when I get back.
For the Revelation verses and others that seem to imply eternal conscious torment, follow this link: http://www.rethinkinghell.com/explore/ and go to the scriptures tab, and click on the Traditionalism tab under that (if it doesn't jump to the Traditionalism tab automatically).
But if a connection can be established between losing something and that thing being destroyed--an existential connection-- then "the destruction of the lost" can become a sensible expression.
Drowning means (i.e. implies) dying, but the words aren't equivalent.