• For users new and old: the forum rules were streamlined when we transitioned to the new software. Please ensure that you are familiar with them. Continued use of the forum means that you (a) know the rules, and (b) pledge that you'll abide by them. For more information, check out the OrthodoxChristianity.Net Rules section. (There are only 2 threads there - Rules, and Administrative Structure.)

Antiochian Archdiocese Monasteries?

Menas17

Sr. Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
201
Reaction score
115
Points
43
Location
SE
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antioch
Was curious why there are not more monasteries in the Antiochian Archdiocese of America? It seems to be the only main jurisdiction that has pretty much no monastic presence, except for St. Thekla convent.

Why is this?
 

hecma925

Orthodox Taliban
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
21,477
Reaction score
1,363
Points
113
Age
160
Location
Wandering Fool
Faith
Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
Jurisdiction
Enemy State Orthodox Church Abroad
Because of Metropolitan Philip of blessed memory.
 

Ariend

Elder
Joined
Mar 28, 2019
Messages
335
Reaction score
106
Points
43
Age
19
Location
America
Website
www.assemblyofbishops.org
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Antiochian Archdiocese of North America
I'm actually curious too. A woman from my Antiochian parish became a monastic, and she went to the OCA because the Antiochians have pretty much no monasteries.
Because of Metropolitan Philip of blessed memory.
What about him?
 

hecma925

Orthodox Taliban
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
21,477
Reaction score
1,363
Points
113
Age
160
Location
Wandering Fool
Faith
Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
Jurisdiction
Enemy State Orthodox Church Abroad
The story goes he had bad monastic experiences in Lebanon. Also, monasticism in the US in the 60s and 70s wasn't all that great. I think that colored his view on whether or not (obviously not) the archdiocese established any monasteries. OTOH, many converts have been received into the Church because of him.
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
100
Reaction score
14
Points
18
Location
West Texas (temporary)
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Military-don't have the luxury to care
The Antiochians have had a fairly strong anti-monastic attitude and not just from Metropolitan Philip.
 

TheTrisagion

Hoplitarches
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
17,887
Reaction score
82
Points
48
Age
42
Location
PA, USA
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antiochian
Their foray into the monastic community of the Convent of St. Thekla did not go well and it was closed. I think it is probably rather difficult to start monastic communities from the ground up, and the archdiocese has other focuses at the moment. I wouldn't say the archdiocese is opposed to it, but rather it is concentrating on other ministries at the moment.
 

Menas17

Sr. Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
201
Reaction score
115
Points
43
Location
SE
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antioch
Their foray into the monastic community of the Convent of St. Thekla did not go well and it was closed. I think it is probably rather difficult to start monastic communities from the ground up, and the archdiocese has other focuses at the moment. I wouldn't say the archdiocese is opposed to it, but rather it is concentrating on other ministries at the moment.
If the Antiochian Archdiocese doesn't have monastics how does it chose it's bishops? I am in the Diocese of the West (Antiochian) and my understand of why we haven't been provided a bishop yet is that there is no monastic to chose from. This is why we are currently directly under Metropolitan JOSEPH.
 

hecma925

Orthodox Taliban
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
21,477
Reaction score
1,363
Points
113
Age
160
Location
Wandering Fool
Faith
Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
Jurisdiction
Enemy State Orthodox Church Abroad
Celibate priests?
 

Menas17

Sr. Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
201
Reaction score
115
Points
43
Location
SE
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antioch
Celibate priests?
Given the RCC's track record with that I think I'd be happier with widowed priests, but, that's just me and it's not my choice.
 

JTLoganville

High Elder
Joined
Jan 19, 2015
Messages
813
Reaction score
143
Points
43
Location
Pennsylvania
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Greek Orthodox
Any blame for a lack Bishops in the Antiochian Archdiocese of North America should be place squarely upon the Holy Synod of Antioch.

They seem to underestimate the vastness of this continentl
 

hecma925

Orthodox Taliban
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
21,477
Reaction score
1,363
Points
113
Age
160
Location
Wandering Fool
Faith
Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
Jurisdiction
Enemy State Orthodox Church Abroad
Given the RCC's track record with that I think I'd be happier with widowed priests, but, that's just me and it's not my choice.
I would include widowed priests under the umbrella of celibate priests.
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
100
Reaction score
14
Points
18
Location
West Texas (temporary)
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Military-don't have the luxury to care
Any blame for a lack Bishops in the Antiochian Archdiocese of North America should be place squarely upon the Holy Synod of Antioch.

They seem to underestimate the vastness of this continentl
Antioch also has more pressing things to worry about like their flock in Syria and Lebanon. All the more reason everyone in North America should just merge with the OCA and call it a day.
 

Ainnir

Taxiarches
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
7,558
Reaction score
858
Points
113
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antiochian
Antioch also has more pressing things to worry about like their flock in Syria and Lebanon. All the more reason everyone in North America should just merge with the OCA and call it a day.
Would everyone in North America keep the character of their previous jurisdictions?
 

hecma925

Orthodox Taliban
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
21,477
Reaction score
1,363
Points
113
Age
160
Location
Wandering Fool
Faith
Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
Jurisdiction
Enemy State Orthodox Church Abroad
Would everyone in North America keep the character of their previous jurisdictions?
Why wouldn't they? The OCA has Bulgarian, Albanian, and Romanian Dioceses and they have the character they choose which is markedly different from a stereotypical OCA diocese. Having different ethnic ministries was a vision (for the times of European immigration) of St. Tikhon of Moscow for North America so that all the Orthodox could be ministered.
 

hecma925

Orthodox Taliban
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
21,477
Reaction score
1,363
Points
113
Age
160
Location
Wandering Fool
Faith
Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
Jurisdiction
Enemy State Orthodox Church Abroad
Antioch also has more pressing things to worry about like their flock in Syria and Lebanon. All the more reason everyone in North America should just merge with the OCA and call it a day.
Istanbul calling. They'd like a word.
 

Ainnir

Taxiarches
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
7,558
Reaction score
858
Points
113
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antiochian
Why wouldn't they? The OCA has Bulgarian, Albanian, and Romanian Dioceses and they have the character they choose which is markedly different from a stereotypical OCA diocese. Having different ethnic ministries was a vision (for the times of European immigration) of St. Tikhon of Moscow for North America so that all the Orthodox could be ministered.
That's good to know! I've only visited one OCA parish.
 

TheTrisagion

Hoplitarches
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
17,887
Reaction score
82
Points
48
Age
42
Location
PA, USA
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antiochian
If the Antiochian Archdiocese doesn't have monastics how does it chose it's bishops? I am in the Diocese of the West (Antiochian) and my understand of why we haven't been provided a bishop yet is that there is no monastic to chose from. This is why we are currently directly under Metropolitan JOSEPH.
It does make it a bit difficult. Some of our bishops have come from Syria. Others are single men who were priests. Hopefully at some point in the future, we can have a vibrant monastic community.
 

Shanghaiski

Merarches
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
Messages
8,083
Reaction score
91
Points
48
Age
42
Location
Wisconsin, USA
What is needed is for people with monastic experience in the old country to come and start monasteries here. But, if there is a language barrier, or if there is not significant interest on the part of the people or the bishops, it won't happen. These things need a great degree of facilitation sometimes, to get the ball rollling.
 

Shanghaiski

Merarches
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
Messages
8,083
Reaction score
91
Points
48
Age
42
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Istanbul should be sent to Voicemail
Especially that voicemail that keeps you going in circles from electronic menu to electronic menu, and then just hangs up, possibly after directing you to a flashy, but unnavigable website.
 

hecma925

Orthodox Taliban
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
21,477
Reaction score
1,363
Points
113
Age
160
Location
Wandering Fool
Faith
Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
Jurisdiction
Enemy State Orthodox Church Abroad
Especially that voicemail that keeps you going in circles from electronic menu to electronic menu, and then just hangs up, possibly after directing you to a flashy, but unnavigable website.
I believe www.zombo.com is the site with all the details of the next Holy, Great, and Awesome Council.
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
100
Reaction score
14
Points
18
Location
West Texas (temporary)
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Military-don't have the luxury to care
Why wouldn't they? The OCA has Bulgarian, Albanian, and Romanian Dioceses and they have the character they choose which is markedly different from a stereotypical OCA diocese. Having different ethnic ministries was a vision (for the times of European immigration) of St. Tikhon of Moscow for North America so that all the Orthodox could be ministered.
Exactly! St Tikhon had plans for St Sebastian Dabovitch to head the Serbian Diocese, which he did for a while as administrator, but unfortunately the Bolshevik Revolution fouled everything up.
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
100
Reaction score
14
Points
18
Location
West Texas (temporary)
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Military-don't have the luxury to care
Would everyone in North America keep the character of their previous jurisdictions?
Why not? The ethnic dioceses of the OCA has already been mentioned. With that, I could foresee (we'll use the Antiochians as an example) parishes that worship in Arabic forming an Arab diocese of the OCA and the English worshiping ones could probably be their own diocese or deaneries for a time before being moved to the regional dioceses (diocese of the west, the south, etc)
 

hecma925

Orthodox Taliban
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
21,477
Reaction score
1,363
Points
113
Age
160
Location
Wandering Fool
Faith
Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
Jurisdiction
Enemy State Orthodox Church Abroad
Exactly! St Tikhon had plans for St Sebastian Dabovitch to head the Serbian Diocese, which he did for a while as administrator, but unfortunately the Bolshevik Revolution fouled everything up.
Let us not forget St. Raphael of Brooklyn, the first Orthodox bishop consecrated on North America. He was a shepherd to all the lost sheep in America, regardless of ethnicity. He once wrote in a letter:

I am an Arab by birth, a Greek by primary education, an American by residence, a Russian at heart, and a Slav in soul.

He was St. Tikhon's vicar for the massive diocese of America.
 

sestir

bokareis
Joined
Sep 7, 2015
Messages
339
Reaction score
18
Points
18
Location
Wist Po Marein / Zachodniopomorsk
Website
weihos.eu
Faith
Christian
Jurisdiction
independent
Antioch also has more pressing things to worry about like their flock in Syria and Lebanon. All the more reason everyone in North America should just merge with the OCA and call it a day.
Istanbul calling. They'd like a word.
Islamic missionaries and apologetes often argue that monasticism is a way for hypocritical Christian leaders to trick pious persons into not having children, thus increasing the chances of their own children raising offspring relative to that of others. Neverminding that this narrative is based off thin air — I guess most monks and nuns would become monastic post fertility — could it be that the decision of not having monasteries would be meant to appear less infidel to Antykia's Islamist neighbours?
 

Samn!

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
Messages
1,207
Reaction score
319
Points
83
Jurisdiction
Patriarchaat van Erps-Kwerps
In the Middle East, the Orthodox were long the least monastic of the major churches in the region and were never dominated in day-to-day life by monastic clergy in the same way the Maronites and Syriacs still are. Even going back to the Middle Ages, there were many instances of laymen (such as the martyr Christopher, d. 967) or widowed clergy (such as Macarius III ibn al-Za'im, d. 1672) being elected patriarch of Antioch.

Two major factors that greatly reduced monasticism during the Ottoman period were the schism with the Catholics, where the more educated and western-oriented monks (such as those at who founded the monasteries of Choueir and Mar Mukhalles) were major proponents of the Unia, and then durng the Greek xenocracy, where native monks were seen as potential rivals (and all Arabs as potential Catholics), and thus were discouraged from religious life, as still happens in Jerusalem.

By the early 20th century, there was basically no male monasticism in the Patriarchate of Antioch. It would only be revived in a sustainable way with the establishment of the Orthodox Youth Movement, which led to the re-foundation of Deir el-Harf in the 1960s. Most of the really glaring differences between the Antiochian Archdiocese in North America and the Patriarchate as it exists in Syria and Lebanon is due to the Youth Movement never having a presence in the US and Metropolitan Philip's very divergent vision of a vaguely Episcopalianized Orthodoxy.

Any blame for a lack Bishops in the Antiochian Archdiocese of North America should be place squarely upon the Holy Synod of Antioch.
Generally speaking, monasteries are initiatives of local bishops, as in the case of the plan for a new Antiochian women's monastery in Germany. I know Bp Basil in Wichita has attempted to start a monastery at one point, but I don't know what became of it.

could it be that the decision of not having monasteries would be meant to appear less infidel to Antykia's Islamist neighbours?
I've never heard of anything like this in the Middle East. Muslims in Syria and Lebanon are quite used to monasteries as part of the local landscape and Saydnaya is even a famous pilgrimage site for Muslim women.
 
Top