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Antiochian, OCA, GOA

Christos3

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We might relocate to an area where the closest church is Antiochian. Is there any difference between the Antiochians and OCA? We have also been apart of a GOA parish.
 

melkite

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We might relocate to an area where the closest church is Antiochian. Is there any difference between the Antiochians and OCA? We have also been apart of a GOA parish.
The Antiochian liturgy is traditionally going to be more like that used in the GOA. However, many priests of the Antiochian Archdiocese were trained in OCA seminaries - especially Protestant converts. The Antiochian parish I used to attend had a more Russian sounding liturgy for the most part. When I first started going to the Melkite parish I attend now, I thought it was us who were doing something wrong. Since then, I've watched the livestream of the Antiochian parish, and it is much more similar to the Melkite liturgy than it was when I had attended there.

To any Antiochian insiders, have the bishops encouraged/required/pressured its parishes to make their liturgy more like that celebrated in the Middle East?
 

SirHandel6

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Do you mean language-wise or chanting-wise? The only difference I have seen in the past decade is the more widespread use of English. The chanting style is still largely the same.
 

melkite

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Do you mean language-wise or chanting-wise? The only difference I have seen in the past decade is the more widespread use of English. The chanting style is still largely the same.
Chanting. The Antiochian parish was using a lot of polyphony when I went there. I wasn't even aware of ison until I started attending a Melkite parish. I also watch a livestream of an OCA parish occasionally and many of the melodies there are the same as what we sang in the Antiochian parish.

Perhaps it is just this parish that has shifted to a Greco-Arabic style of chant.
 

Dominika

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I suppose it depends on certain parish. I think if certain Antiochian parish is more convert, it's closer to OCA but maintains some Antiochian things (so it may be closer to GOA). If it's more Arabic, it's of course more Antiochian, so it's closer to GOA (but certainly not the same).
 

Katechon

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OCA generally tends to the Russian usage, Antiochians tend to the Greek usage. Both use predominantly English.
 

JTLoganville

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There is gentle pressure relentlessly applied in the AOA to standardize both translation (Holy Transfiguration Monastery) and chant melody (Fr. John Al-Raseem).

Kazan will be a distant memory in another generation. Likewise the excellent work by Kh. Joyce Black. Kh Joyce's arrangements are ideal for mission parishes with limited vocal resources.
 
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Our Antiochian parish in Pennsylvania rotates between English, Arabic, Greek, & Slavonic horizontally & vertical weekly on the Trisagion, Cherubic hymn etc. We pray the Lord’s Prayer in English & Arabic although English is the primary language of our liturgy.
 

JTLoganville

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Our Antiochian parish in Pennsylvania rotates between English, Arabic, Greek, & Slavonic horizontally & vertical weekly on the Trisagion, Cherubic hymn etc. We pray the Lord’s Prayer in English & Arabic although English is the primary language of our liturgy.
Excellent.

In a multi lingual parish there is frankly no excuse for not cycling through the various languages, particularly in responses that have repetition such as the Trisagion, "Blessed is the Name of the Lord", and the responses to the Litanies.

"Kyrie eleison" and "Ya'Raab ur' ham" should be basic liturgical vocabulary!
 

Cavaradossi

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There is gentle pressure relentlessly applied in the AOA to standardize both translation (Holy Transfiguration Monastery) and chant melody (Fr. John Al-Raseem).

Kazan will be a distant memory in another generation. Likewise the excellent work by Kh. Joyce Black. Kh Joyce's arrangements are ideal for mission parishes with limited vocal resources.
Do you mean Fr. John El Massih? While he does compose, his output is nowhere nearly as prolific as some other composers who use HTM like Chadi Karam and Gabriel Cremeens, and at least in private I never got the impression that he presents his own compositions as the sole standard that the whole AANA should follow. He seems to think that there are many good materials out there (like the divine music project hosted by St. Anthony’s Monastery and compositions by the aforementioned composers) which are suited to use in worship in the AANA.
 

JTLoganville

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That is who I meant....I was too lazy to look up one of his arrangements for proper spelling. He is very gracious and personable, any "push" for his materials is certainly not originating with him, but from others.
 

MarkosC

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Do you mean Fr. John El Massih? While he does compose, his output is nowhere nearly as prolific as some other composers who use HTM like Chadi Karam and Gabriel Cremeens, and at least in private I never got the impression that he presents his own compositions as the sole standard that the whole AANA should follow. He seems to think that there are many good materials out there (like the divine music project hosted by St. Anthony’s Monastery and compositions by the aforementioned composers) which are suited to use in worship in the AANA.
Off topic, but are Fr John and Chadi Karam's settings available somewhere?

FYI, having downloaded many of the settings kn Reader Gabriel's English Analogion site, often times festal settings use Metropliotan Kallistos/Mother Mary's settings from the Festal Menaion (i suspect copyright might be an issue. That said, HTM's festal meniaon settings often seem to use the same urtext as the Festal Menaion....)
 
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