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Antiochians are at it again.

frjohnmorris

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Samn! said:
In terms of "long-term pastoral care", the last time before very recently that there were Orthodox churches in the Persian Gulf region, which was before the Mongols, they were under the Orthodox Catholicos of Baghdad, who was under the Patriarch of Antioch. Jerusalem has pretty much no history of activity outside modern Palestine and Jordan prior to this Qatari adventure. Part of the controversy here is that Jerusalem's "Archbishop of Qatar" claims Kuwait, where there is an Antiochian parish and where the Antiochian metropolitan of Baghdad often resides.

"Arabia" in the Patriarch of Jerusalem's title refers to the Roman Province of Arabia, just like "the East" in Antioch's title refers to the Province of Oriens.

Here, for example, though, is an account of the extent of the Patriarchate of Antioch by the 18th century historian Mikhail Breik: http://araborthodoxy.blogspot.fr/2009/06/patriarchate-of-antioch-according-to.html
The Patriarch of Antioch also bears the title, Antioch and all the East. That would include the Arabian Peninsula and Qatar. 

Fr. John W. Morris
 

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frjohnmorris said:
I do not believe that the North American Archdiocese is represented on the Holy Synod of Constantinople.
Incorrect. As Metropolitan Archbishops of the Ecumenical Throne, the Archbishop of America and every GOA Metropolitan can sit on the Holy and Sacred Synod of Constantinople. For practical purposes, they take turns attending meetings in Constantinople, with at least one American sitting as a full voting member.
 

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pensateomnia said:
frjohnmorris said:
I do not believe that the North American Archdiocese is represented on the Holy Synod of Constantinople.
Incorrect. As Metropolitan Archbishops of the Ecumenical Throne, the Archbishop of America and every GOA Metropolitan can sit on the Holy and Sacred Synod of Constantinople. For practical purposes, they take turns attending meetings in Constantinople, with at least one American sitting as a full voting member.
I stand corrected.  I did not know that.

Fr. John W. Morris
 

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frjohnmorris said:
Unlike the Greeks, our Primate is a full member of the Holy Synod. I do not believe that the North American Archdiocese is represented on the Holy Synod of Constantinople.

Fr. John W. Morris
I thought New Jersey is in America.

http://www.patriarchate.org/patriarchate/jurisdiction/administrative-structure/synod
 

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pensateomnia said:
frjohnmorris said:
I do not believe that the North American Archdiocese is represented on the Holy Synod of Constantinople.
Incorrect. As Metropolitan Archbishops of the Ecumenical Throne, the Archbishop of America and every GOA Metropolitan can sit on the Holy and Sacred Synod of Constantinople. For practical purposes, they take turns attending meetings in Constantinople, with at least one American sitting as a full voting member.
This has been a development of the last, little more than a decade or so, as I recall.  The Holy and Sacred Synod of Constantinople convenes monthly in annual sessions, half of the Synod is appointed from among the "Thrones Outside of Turkey," and typically, a member of the Eparchial Synod of America has been appointed to the Synod of Constantinople.  Titular Bishops from abroad are appointed too, in addition to ruling metropolitans and archbishops.
 

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Michał Kalina said:
frjohnmorris said:
Unlike the Greeks, our Primate is a full member of the Holy Synod. I do not believe that the North American Archdiocese is represented on the Holy Synod of Constantinople.

Fr. John W. Morris
I thought New Jersey is in America.

http://www.patriarchate.org/patriarchate/jurisdiction/administrative-structure/synod
New Jersey is in the U.S.A. What is your point?
 

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Comment from Abp Demetrius:
http://assemblyofbishops.org/news/2014/assembly-faces-temporary-withdrawal-of-participation-by-hierarchs-of-patriarchate-of-antioch
 

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As a friend pointed out, Bishop Basil was replaced by a Greek archimandrite.  Tells us loads about the 'relative value' system involved... Greek Archimandrite equals xenos bishop.

Slowly, the truth emerges.  Can't wait until we hear more from Met. Epidephoros...    :D


Michał Kalina said:
Comment from Abp Demetrius:
http://assemblyofbishops.org/news/2014/assembly-faces-temporary-withdrawal-of-participation-by-hierarchs-of-patriarchate-of-antioch
 

podkarpatska

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Usually these types of statements are like soap bubbles, all air with a shiny surface. But this sentence: "Until such time, the Assembly, as established by a unanimous consent of all the Autocephalous Churches, will continue to serve the faithful and its mission to foster the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace (Ephesians 4:3), and we continue to pray that the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, will guide the work of the Assembly and inspire unfeigned brotherly love among all Orthodox Christians.” borders on fantasy.

 

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FatherGiryus said:
As a friend pointed out, Bishop Basil was replaced by a Greek archimandrite.  Tells us loads about the 'relative value' system involved... Greek Archimandrite equals xenos bishop.

Slowly, the truth emerges.  Can't wait until we hear more from Met. Epidephoros...    :D


Michał Kalina said:
Comment from Abp Demetrius:
http://assemblyofbishops.org/news/2014/assembly-faces-temporary-withdrawal-of-participation-by-hierarchs-of-patriarchate-of-antioch
It is without knowledge of the situation that your friend would make such a ridiculous and wrongful analogy. It is that type of perverse thinking that is unproductive to "the stability of the Holy Churches of God and the union of them all."

Fr. Nathaniel is directly under the authority of Archbishop Demetrios of America and is the Director of Inter-Orthodox Relations of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America (among other assignments within the Holy Archdiocese). It is only natural that Archbishop Demetrios would make an interim appointment of someone under his authority until the ACOB or its Executive Committee meets to appoint one of its members, an episcopal assignment to the General Secretariat which is part of ACOB's Executive Committee. Fr. Nathanial already works within the Secretariat and is in a position to promptly pick up the ball and continue the work. This appointment is rational, expedient and by no means analogous to a Greek Archimandrite being equivalent to an Antiochian Bishop; Bishop Basil of Wichita's work is well respected by his fellow hierarchs, including those of the GOAA. (He also had been baptized in a GOAA parish.)
 

ialmisry

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Basil 320 said:
FatherGiryus said:
As a friend pointed out, Bishop Basil was replaced by a Greek archimandrite.  Tells us loads about the 'relative value' system involved... Greek Archimandrite equals xenos bishop.

Slowly, the truth emerges.  Can't wait until we hear more from Met. Epidephoros...    :D


Michał Kalina said:
Comment from Abp Demetrius:
http://assemblyofbishops.org/news/2014/assembly-faces-temporary-withdrawal-of-participation-by-hierarchs-of-patriarchate-of-antioch
It is without knowledge of the situation that your friend would make such a ridiculous and wrongful analogy. It is that type of perverse thinking that is unproductive to "the stability of the Holy Churches of God and the union of them all."

Fr. Nathaniel is directly under the authority of Archbishop Demetrios of America and is the Director of Inter-Orthodox Relations of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America (among other assignments within the Holy Archdiocese). It is only natural that Archbishop Demetrios would make an interim appointment of someone under his authority until the ACOB or its Executive Committee meets to appoint one of its members, an episcopal assignment to the General Secretariat which is part of ACOB's Executive Committee. Fr. Nathanial already works within the Secretariat and is in a position to promptly pick up the ball and continue the work. This appointment is rational, expedient and by no means analogous to a Greek Archimandrite being equivalent to an Antiochian Bishop; Bishop Basil of Wichita's work is well respected by his fellow hierarchs, including those of the GOAA. (He also had been baptized in a GOAA parish.)
I don't doubt that was Abp. Demetrius' intention, but given the circumstances, I would think GOA archmandrites would be recrused, to avoid the appearance of omogeneia.
 

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omogeneia? 

I suppose Greek Americans of my generation and older probably know of this. Is it really different than say Slavs who dream of "Holy Russia" or Ukrainians who fantasize about the past? 

No one in my parish, the OCA parishes or the Ukie parish here, including the clergy, I daresay , ever heard the term or understands it. I've asked around. Typical non Greek response: does it have something to do with processing dairy products?  ;)

I take it that the best analogy is that it ties ethnic Greeks to the idealization of the homeland whether they're religious or not - like Jews to Israel?

If a group of elderly Bishops in Istanbul really think that omogeneia will form the basis of the Church in North America for the future, it - unity - will not happen and the odd status quo will wobble on. But, I just don't see it playing out that way. Call me an optimist but I also never was much for conspiracy theories.
 

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podkarpatska said:
omogeneia? 

I suppose Greek Americans of my generation and older probably know of this. Is it really different than say Slavs who dream of "Holy Russia" or Ukrainians who fantasize about the past?
Yes, very diffferent.
podkarpatska said:
No one in my parish, the OCA parishes or the Ukie parish here, including the clergy, I daresay , ever heard the term or understands it. I've asked around. Typical non Greek response: does it have something to do with processing dairy products?  ;)
I dare say that for many, they don't know the term because they view it as synonymous with "Greek."

podkarpatska said:
I take it that the best analogy is that it ties ethnic Greeks to the idealization of the homeland whether they're religious or not - like Jews to Israel?
Or Phanariots to the Patriarchate of Jerusalem.

podkarpatska said:
If a group of elderly Bishops in Istanbul really think that omogeneia will form the basis of the Church in North America for the future, it - unity - will not happen and the odd status quo will wobble on. But, I just don't see it playing out that way. Call me an optimist but I also never was much for conspiracy theories.
Read the writings of the Metropolitan of Bursa, the ethnarch in grooming for the Phanar.
 

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The discussion above is a very good illustration of the problems that keep us divided. Some people see the Church in ethnic terms. Both the Greeks and Russians including the OCA are guilty of this view. Others like me are American and want a truly American Church, not an independent Church like the OCA, because despite their use of English and claimed autocephaly, I find the OCA too tied to Russian ethnicism to be truly American. I am an American and do not long either for the fantasy of Holy Mother Russia or the glories of Byzantium. Just the title of this thread is offensive to me because it implies that we Antiochians are trouble makers. Indeed, I constantly read posts and encounter other Orthodox who consider us  less than fully Orthodox because we are more Americanized in ways that do not compromise the Holy Tradition of the Church. I know that if I want to start a fire storm on any Orthodox discussion on the internet, all I have to do is mention pews or the fact that I do not wear a cassock except at Church. Then people come out of the wood work to tell me that we Antiochians are not really Orthodox because we do not try to recreate the Orthodoxy of 19th century Russia or Greece, in non-essentials or externals. However, liturgically and doctrinally, I believe that our Orthodoxy is fully traditional.  Metropolitan Philip our liturgical life has become even more traditional and fuller, because he has insisted that we do the services properly and completely and has commissioned the publication of the Liturgical Guide and a complete Liturgikon. Our worship today is also fuller because English translations are available that were not available when I first became a Priest almost 34 years ago. When I began my Priesthood, I had to leave a lot out such as the stichera from the Menaion simply because they were not available in English. Holy Week was difficult because all we had was Nasser, which is sometimes very difficult to follow and a Greek book with a very bad translation. Now we have a complete Holy Week Book that we can follow very easily and do a complete traditional Holy Week. Every week the Archdiocese puts the complete text for Saturday evening Vespers and Sunday morning Matins on the internet to insure that these services are done correctly and without abbreviations. Thus when it comes to essentials, we Antiochians are as traditional and Orthodox as any other jurisdiction.

Fr. John W. Morris
 
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frjohnmorris said:
The discussion above is a very good illustration of the problems that keep us divided. Some people see the Church in ethnic terms. Both the Greeks and Russians including the OCA are guilty of this view. Others like me are American and want a truly American Church, not an independent Church like the OCA, because despite their use of English and claimed autocephaly, I find the OCA too tied to Russian ethnicism to be truly American. I am an American and do not long either for the fantasy of Holy Mother Russia or the glories of Byzantium. Just the title of this thread is offensive to me because it implies that we Antiochians are trouble makers. Indeed, I constantly read posts and encounter other Orthodox who consider us  less than fully Orthodox because we are more Americanized in ways that do not compromise the Holy Tradition of the Church. I know that if I want to start a fire storm on any Orthodox discussion on the internet, all I have to do is mention pews or the fact that I do not wear a cassock except at Church. Then people come out of the wood work to tell me that we Antiochians are not really Orthodox because we do not try to recreate the Orthodoxy of 19th century Russia or Greece, in non-essentials or externals. However, liturgically and doctrinally, I believe that our Orthodoxy is fully traditional and under Metropolitan Philip has become even more traditional and fuller, partially because English translations are available that were not available when I first became a Priest almost 34 years ago. When I began my Priesthood, I had to leave a lot out such as the stichera from the Menaion simply because they were not available in English. Holy Week was difficult because all we had was Nasser, which is sometimes very difficult to follow and a Greek book with a very bad translation. Now we have a complete Holy Week Book that we can follow very easily and do a complete traditional Holy Week.

Fr. John W. Morris



Axios, 1Father.
 

podkarpatska

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^ I agree, our hierarchs and clergy in ACROD had always felt an affinity with their Antiochian brothers over the decades. I suspect that those who are "ethnic" in each, really don't have a fantasy of "warm fuzziness" regarding the Old World. We left one step ahead of trouble with a capital "T" and didn't look back. One thing almost inherent among the many immigrants I knew of my grandparents' and parents' era, was a total lack of desire to return to, regret leaving or recreating the old world left behind.
 

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podkarpatska said:
omogeneia? 

I suppose Greek Americans of my generation and older probably know of this. Is it really different than say Slavs who dream of "Holy Russia" or Ukrainians who fantasize about the past? 

it's very different
omo-geneia =same-race

we just use this word for the Greeks who live outside Greece
no dreams and no fantasies about anything
 

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Ersaia said:
podkarpatska said:
omogeneia? 

I suppose Greek Americans of my generation and older probably know of this. Is it really different than say Slavs who dream of "Holy Russia" or Ukrainians who fantasize about the past? 

it's very different
omo-geneia =same-race

we just use this word for the Greeks who live outside Greece
no dreams and no fantasies about anything
many of the Omogeneia dream about still living inside Greece, fantasizing, for instance that they are "not Greek Americans but Greeks in America" (an actual quote).
 

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ialmisry said:
many of the Omogeneia dream about still living inside Greece, fantasizing, for instance that they are "not Greek Americans but Greeks in America" (an actual quote).
they must speek good Greek for start :p

ok many of them and not only those who live in USA, you can see the same pattern in Germany also, they are "too much Greek" that look strange to us in Greece but we think that they have pure love for Greece and they live abroad so many years and try so hard to keep Greece inside them, but the Greece they have in their minds/memories/tales from olders is very different from the real-time Greece. It's like frozen time Greece


 

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I feel silly even having to write this, but in light of several posts above, please note, in this day an age, nearly all, if not all, Greek-Americans view themselves as Americans of Greek heritage; no one, well, maybe a very few, long to move to the "Patritha," the "Fatherland" of their grandparents, or parents, or great grandparents.

In 1975, (yes, 38 years ago), Archbishop Iakovos announced that the Biannual Clergy-Laity Congress of 1976 of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of North & South America would take place in Athens, Greece, as a way of demonstrating support for the return to democracy in Greece after the fall of the military dictatorship of "The Colonels." There was a nationwide uproar in opposition, and the Clergy-Laity Congress was held in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in honor of America's Bicentennial, the official state celebrations of which Archbishop Iakovos and the Congress participated.

"Omogenia" is used in official verbiage in reference to the greater Greek-American community. It is infrequently used, typically by the Archbishop of America, when, in addition to the clergy and faithful of the church and its organizations, he is addressing the Greek-American organizations which are not officially within the umbrella of the church, such as the Ahepa (American Hellenic Educational Progressive Association) and the fraternal, benevolent, and advocacy (lobbying) organizations for the various provinces and islands of Greece and Cyprus. Support for the charitable causes of these organizations is and has for quite sometime been on the wane, comparatively, as the Greek-American community increasingly, largely perceives itself removed from the homeland of their forefathers, and is focused on its own concerns in their homeland, the United States of America, while the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America remains, by far, the largest supporter of the church's official missionary and charitable efforts, the Orthodox Christian Mission Center (OCMC) (formerly, the Archdiocesan Mission Center of the GOANSA) and International Orthodox Christian Charities (IOCC). Of course, the Holy Archdiocese's other charitable concerns are conducted through its Department of Philanthropy and the Philoptohos ("Friends of the Poor") Society.
 

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Ersaia said:
ialmisry said:
many of the Omogeneia dream about still living inside Greece, fantasizing, for instance that they are "not Greek Americans but Greeks in America" (an actual quote).
they must speek good Greek for start :p

ok many of them and not only those who live in USA, you can see the same pattern in Germany also, they are "too much Greek" that look strange to us in Greece but we think that they have pure love for Greece and they live abroad so many years and try so hard to keep Greece inside them, but the Greece they have in their minds/memories/tales from olders is very different from the real-time Greece. M
That is perhaps the most insightful observation here in years! The same applies to many others, I know many Americans of Rusyn, Ukrainian, Russian, and other backgrounds who are "frozen in time" when it comes to the "old world."  I can't tell you how many Americans I have heard return from Europe only to mournfully mention that "they" live like "us", not like how they vaguely remember hearing stories about the old world from their grandparents. Jeans instead of flowery costumes. Techno dance music instead of the popular hits of 1910 we sing and dance to at our "ethnic" festivals. Go figure....
 

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podkarpatska said:
instead of the popular hits of 1910 we sing and dance to at our "ethnic" festivals.
this is the tradition part
we keep it and respect it and like it
but we don't stay frozen to this era
music change, people change, lifestyle change
 

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Ersaia said:
podkarpatska said:
instead of the popular hits of 1910 we sing and dance to at our "ethnic" festivals.
this is the tradition part
we keep it and respect it and like it
but we don't stay frozen to this era
music change, people change, lifestyle change
Exactly.  Some live in denial here, living in nostalgia abroad.

Btw, there are many who don't, as Basil pointed out.  The week before last I was talking with an American Greek/Greek American living in America (parent moved to Greece, where my friend was born and raised.), about how to help his children with their fluency in Greek (he himself has no accent in English, learning it from home in Greece). But he sees that as being complimentary, which they are: it only becomes a problem when one is used to deny the existence of the other.
 

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ialmisry said:
how to help his children with their fluency in Greek
youtube is his friend as they can write greek in search form
you can find so many old and new movies
 
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podkarpatska said:
Ersaia said:
ialmisry said:
many of the Omogeneia dream about still living inside Greece, fantasizing, for instance that they are "not Greek Americans but Greeks in America" (an actual quote).
they must speek good Greek for start :p

ok many of them and not only those who live in USA, you can see the same pattern in Germany also, they are "too much Greek" that look strange to us in Greece but we think that they have pure love for Greece and they live abroad so many years and try so hard to keep Greece inside them, but the Greece they have in their minds/memories/tales from olders is very different from the real-time Greece. M
That is perhaps the most insightful observation here in years! The same applies to many others, I know many Americans of Rusyn, Ukrainian, Russian, and other backgrounds who are "frozen in time" when it comes to the "old world."  I can't tell you how many Americans I have heard return from Europe only to mournfully mention that "they" live like "us", not like how they vaguely remember hearing stories about the old world from their grandparents. Jeans instead of flowery costumes. Techno dance music instead of the popular hits of 1910 we sing and dance to at our "ethnic" festivals. Go figure....
I chuckle when I recall how some of the older parishioners were rather shocked when they were exposed to some modern Ukrainian pop-style music which was played at a Ukrainian festival.  I think some of them really thought that folks still sat around, played the bandurka and wore embroidered shirts all the time.  (Not to say that this doesn't happen, but it isn't the "default" mode of living -- compare to a bluegrass festival here.)  Nevertheless, most good Ukrainian pop has a musical style and there are lots of elements, such as use of accordion, bandura, etc., which gives it a unique flavor and shows that it is an inheritance of past musical traditions -- just like our music here was heavily influenced by both folk music and African-American spirituals.  That's a neat thing.
 
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Yurysprudentsiya said:
podkarpatska said:
Ersaia said:
ialmisry said:
many of the Omogeneia dream about still living inside Greece, fantasizing, for instance that they are "not Greek Americans but Greeks in America" (an actual quote).
they must speek good Greek for start :p

ok many of them and not only those who live in USA, you can see the same pattern in Germany also, they are "too much Greek" that look strange to us in Greece but we think that they have pure love for Greece and they live abroad so many years and try so hard to keep Greece inside them, but the Greece they have in their minds/memories/tales from olders is very different from the real-time Greece. M
That is perhaps the most insightful observation here in years! The same applies to many others, I know many Americans of Rusyn, Ukrainian, Russian, and other backgrounds who are "frozen in time" when it comes to the "old world."  I can't tell you how many Americans I have heard return from Europe only to mournfully mention that "they" live like "us", not like how they vaguely remember hearing stories about the old world from their grandparents. Jeans instead of flowery costumes. Techno dance music instead of the popular hits of 1910 we sing and dance to at our "ethnic" festivals. Go figure....
I chuckle when I recall how some of the older parishioners were rather shocked when they were exposed to some modern Ukrainian pop-style music which was played at a Ukrainian festival.  I think some of them really thought that folks still sat around, played the bandurka and wore embroidered shirts all the time.  (Not to say that this doesn't happen, but it isn't the "default" mode of living -- compare to a bluegrass festival here.)  Nevertheless, most good Ukrainian pop has a musical style and there are lots of elements, such as use of accordion, bandura, etc., which gives it a unique flavor and shows that it is an inheritance of past musical traditions -- just like our music here was heavily influenced by both folk music and African-American spirituals.  That's a neat thing.
And, because of their timing on immigration (which was quite good) they missed the entire Soviet era, with its own cultural inheritance.  Although it was a horrible, repressive regime, there was a lot of neat culture, music and style that was uniquely Soviet-formed, drawing from the traditions of its constituent countries.  This is most evident in the difference of culinary choices between early 20th century immigrants and early 21st century immigrants.  Later Ukrainian immigrants are used to lots of "Soviet food" staples from the other Republics, such as Georgian food or Russian products, on top of native Ukrainian cuisine, things that were simply unheard of to the first-wave peasant immigrants.
 

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Yurysprudentsiya said:
podkarpatska said:
Ersaia said:
ialmisry said:
many of the Omogeneia dream about still living inside Greece, fantasizing, for instance that they are "not Greek Americans but Greeks in America" (an actual quote).
they must speek good Greek for start :p

ok many of them and not only those who live in USA, you can see the same pattern in Germany also, they are "too much Greek" that look strange to us in Greece but we think that they have pure love for Greece and they live abroad so many years and try so hard to keep Greece inside them, but the Greece they have in their minds/memories/tales from olders is very different from the real-time Greece. M
That is perhaps the most insightful observation here in years! The same applies to many others, I know many Americans of Rusyn, Ukrainian, Russian, and other backgrounds who are "frozen in time" when it comes to the "old world."  I can't tell you how many Americans I have heard return from Europe only to mournfully mention that "they" live like "us", not like how they vaguely remember hearing stories about the old world from their grandparents. Jeans instead of flowery costumes. Techno dance music instead of the popular hits of 1910 we sing and dance to at our "ethnic" festivals. Go figure....
I chuckle when I recall how some of the older parishioners were rather shocked when they were exposed to some modern Ukrainian pop-style music which was played at a Ukrainian festival.  I think some of them really thought that folks still sat around, played the bandurka and wore embroidered shirts all the time.  (Not to say that this doesn't happen, but it isn't the "default" mode of living -- compare to a bluegrass festival here.)  Nevertheless, most good Ukrainian pop has a musical style and there are lots of elements, such as use of accordion, bandura, etc., which gives it a unique flavor and shows that it is an inheritance of past musical traditions -- just like our music here was heavily influenced by both folk music and African-American spirituals.  That's a neat thing.
There are folk ensembles in the eastern Slovakia ( I'm not familiar with western Ukraine, but I am sure they exist there as well) that are like the Slavjane group of Rusyn singers and dancers in Pittsburgh. Every year in Svidnik, Slovakia a 'Rusyn-Ukrainian' festival takes place in the summer and groups perform. What I find interesting is that the European ones do mix the 'old style' folk things with a more modern touch like Yuri says. But we do the same in America at  folk festivals and the like. Like the French say, the more things change - the more they stay the same. But they do change - that's what we all sometimes forget.
 

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podkarpatska said:
Ersaia said:
ialmisry said:
many of the Omogeneia dream about still living inside Greece, fantasizing, for instance that they are "not Greek Americans but Greeks in America" (an actual quote).
they must speek good Greek for start :p

ok many of them and not only those who live in USA, you can see the same pattern in Germany also, they are "too much Greek" that look strange to us in Greece but we think that they have pure love for Greece and they live abroad so many years and try so hard to keep Greece inside them, but the Greece they have in their minds/memories/tales from olders is very different from the real-time Greece. M
That is perhaps the most insightful observation here in years! The same applies to many others, I know many Americans of Rusyn, Ukrainian, Russian, and other backgrounds who are "frozen in time" when it comes to the "old world."  I can't tell you how many Americans I have heard return from Europe only to mournfully mention that "they" live like "us", not like how they vaguely remember hearing stories about the old world from their grandparents. Jeans instead of flowery costumes. Techno dance music instead of the popular hits of 1910 we sing and dance to at our "ethnic" festivals. Go figure....
Both of you are right on the money. I think in this case, distance does make the heart grow fonder, especially for the recent emigres. However, since the fall of Communism, I notice that more young folks in eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union appreciate the traditional songs and dances.
 
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podkarpatska said:
Pop music hits of 1910: How many can you hum?  http://www.musicvf.com/1910.year :D
I know seven of these hundred!  I don't know what that says about those songs, or about me . . .
 

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Ersaia said:
ialmisry said:
how to help his children with their fluency in Greek
youtube is his friend as they can write greek in search form
you can find so many old and new movies
Yes, that was my suggestion, and cable TV.
 

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podkarpatska said:
Pop music hits of 1910: How many can you hum?  http://www.musicvf.com/1910.year :D
I looked up two different lists (Top 20 hits of 1900-1909 and 1910-1919) and found many familiar friends--particularly those that had been covered by many artists over the years. I love the American Songbook standards and, even though that era does not really starts until 1920, there were many 19th Century and turn of the century songs that have persisted through modern artists like  Michael Feinstein, Harry Connick, Jr., Michael Buble, Diana Krall, and even pop stars like Rod Stewart and Paul McCartney. I guess quality shows, and lasts.
 

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Yurysprudentsiya said:
podkarpatska said:
Pop music hits of 1910: How many can you hum?  http://www.musicvf.com/1910.year :D
I know seven of these hundred!  I don't know what that says about those songs, or about me . . .
ME  too, but I know probably ten or twelve Rusyn/Lemko songs from the same period, so what does that say!  :)
 

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podkarpatska said:
I believe it helps us to look at these issues which we blow a lot of steam about in the context of our own reality. It puts things into a more balanced perspective.
you mean, like I don't recognize anyone in the music section of my son's facebook page?
 

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ialmisry said:
podkarpatska said:
I believe it helps us to look at these issues which we blow a lot of steam about in the context of our own reality. It puts things into a more balanced perspective.
you mean, like I don't recognize anyone in the music section of my son's facebook page?
One of the few lyrics I could understand from  listening to Bob Dylan over the years was , 'The times they are a changing...'  ;)
 

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hecma925 said:
Sirach said:
If I think about it in familial terms (a son wanting to be obedient to his fathers wishes), I suppose that makes sense.

But then... what does it mean for them to be "self-ruled"?  That is, what can they do now - after being deemed self-ruled - that they could not do before the Patriarch's decision declaring them self-ruled?
Self-ruled=autonomous.  They do not have their own synod to elect their own bishops.  IIRC, the Patriarch at the time didn't like the term "autonomous."  The title of self-rule did not change anything.  All major decisions still have to go to the Holy Synod.
If you are referring to the Antiochian Archdiocese, we do elect our own local Bishops. Our system is more democratic than the OCA system, at least as it was done recently in the OCA. Our candidates are not chosen by the Local Synod. Instead, the names of all clergy who meet the qualifications are placed on the ballot. Obviously a candidate must be celibate, but they must also have been a Priest in the Antiochian Archdiocese for at least 5 years and must have an earned degree from an Orthodox seminary. The General Assembly of the Archdiocesan Convention nominates 3 candidates from the list and the Local Synod elects one of them. We follow the same procedure to elect a Metropolitan, except that the Holy Synod of the Patriarchate elects the Metropolitan. All major decisions concerning spiritual matters are made by the Metropolitan and the local synod of Bishops. Decisions concerning finances and other non-spiritual matters are made by the Board of Trustees elected by the Archdiocesan Convention and the Convention itself. Normally, the Patriarchate does no interfere in the internal affairs of the Archciocese.  However, the Holy Synod, which includes our Metropolitan, does have authority to make major decisions effecting the entire Patriarchate because despite our self-rule status, we are still part of the Patriarchate of Antioch.

Fr. John W. Morris
 

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frjohnmorris said:
hecma925 said:
Sirach said:
If I think about it in familial terms (a son wanting to be obedient to his fathers wishes), I suppose that makes sense.

But then... what does it mean for them to be "self-ruled"?  That is, what can they do now - after being deemed self-ruled - that they could not do before the Patriarch's decision declaring them self-ruled?
Self-ruled=autonomous.  They do not have their own synod to elect their own bishops.  IIRC, the Patriarch at the time didn't like the term "autonomous."  The title of self-rule did not change anything.  All major decisions still have to go to the Holy Synod.
If you are referring to the Antiochian Archdiocese, we do elect our own local Bishops. Our system is more democratic than the OCA system, at least as it was done recently in the OCA. Our candidates are not chosen by the Local Synod. Instead, the names of all clergy who meet the qualifications are placed on the ballot. Obviously a candidate must be celibate, but they must also have been a Priest in the Antiochian Archdiocese for at least 5 years and must have an earned degree from an Orthodox seminary. The General Assembly of the Archdiocesan Convention nominates 3 candidates from the list and the Local Synod elects one of them. We follow the same procedure to elect a Metropolitan, except that the Holy Synod of the Patriarchate elects the Metropolitan. All major decisions concerning spiritual matters are made by the Metropolitan and the local synod of Bishops. Decisions concerning finances and other non-spiritual matters are made by the Board of Trustees elected by the Archdiocesan Convention and the Convention itself. Normally, the Patriarchate does no interfere in the internal affairs of the Archciocese.  However, the Holy Synod, which includes our Metropolitan, does have authority to make major decisions effecting the entire Patriarchate because despite our self-rule status, we are still part of the Patriarchate of Antioch.

Fr. John W. Morris
I like how all qualified candidates are up for the ballot.  Very interesting, thanks.
 
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