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Any fellow grape growers here?

Jibrail Almuhajir

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I've been growing two Concord grape vines for nearly four years now and I'm still learning the ways of pruning.  Last year I had 15 bunches of grapes, but this year I've only got 5 or 6.  Other than those dang Japanese beetles, I don't have any other problems like rot or mold.  But... when they're ripe and ready these grapes are so good your tongue will slap your brains silly! 

Anybody else here grow them?  How long and have you had much luck? 
 

Agabus

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Porter ODoran said:
Hillbillies grow muscies. Mighty delicious.
In the bottom where I grew up, we had a muscadine vine that grew in the top of a gum tree in our front pasture. We'd climb as high as we could to get to them, but eventually our weight exceeded our faith that the branches could hold us up.

As an adult, I moved into a piece of land in the Delta with an ancient muscadine vine that had grown thick and wide, curling in on itself over and over as it ate someone's forgotten clothesline poles. It was probably 10 feet high and wide by 16 or 17 feet long, and we have pictures of our oldest crawling to the top, the vine itself supporting his weight. It didn't produce a lot of fruit, and shortly after we moved away from that property the next resident cleared the plant away, wanting it gone for the same reason we wanted it — it obstructed the view.
 

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I have some in my plot, but in this time of the year they are quite dry here in the southern hemisphere, I hope when the rainy season starts they grow a lot.

I live in a grape growing area, a very sweet variety called niagara rosada.
 

Agabus

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But to go back to the OP, I inherited a small arbor with our current house, which I'm planning to relocate and plant something vining on in the next year. I might try grapes.
 

Jibrail Almuhajir

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Agabus said:
But to go back to the OP, I inherited a small arbor with our current house, which I'm planning to relocate and plant something vining on in the next year. I might try grapes.
I'd get the seedless if you can.  I didn't and they're a pain.
 

Ainnir

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My mom has or had grapes.  She doesn't like Muscadines all that well, either.  I'll try to remember to ask them for any lessons learned, for what it's worth (not sure it will translate to your latitude, altitude, zone, all that jazz).
 

Jibrail Almuhajir

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Ainnir said:
My mom has or had grapes.  She doesn't like Muscadines all that well, either.  I'll try to remember to ask them for any lessons learned, for what it's worth (not sure it will translate to your latitude, altitude, zone, all that jazz).
We're in Zone 6.  Muscadines are OK, I've had really sour ones and semi-sweet ones.  The ones that grow here (upland mountain south) have sort of a rubbery skin.
 

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You're looking for a seedless variety with thin skins? I'd suggest the grocery store.
 

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As far as I know, some of the best grapes in the world are grown in California, and the rest of America is at best third rate and this will be hard to change within the next 25 years.  What are your goals?  What are you trying to accomplish?  I come from an area that's not rot gut awful to grow grapes, but still...it's a very limited market for quality unless you are thinking about some long term plan or have an immediate demand in your neighborhood.
 

Porter ODoran

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William T said:
As far as I know, some of the best grapes in the world are grown in California, and the rest of America is at best third rate and this will be hard to change within the next 25 years.  What are your goals?  What are you trying to accomplish?  I come from an area that's not rot gut awful to grow grapes, but still...it's a very limited market for quality unless you are thinking about some long term plan or have an immediate demand in your neighborhood.
I assume you live in some kind of tenement, but as a rule Americans grow grapes for pleasure all over the U.S. Here in my town, there isn't a street without a grape arbor in a front yard, sometimes pretty spectacular specimens growing up over a porch. In the deep rural area where I grew up, people'd grow multiple varieties just like they'd raise multiple varieties of chickens. Grapes are also found wild in the woods most places.
 

Jibrail Almuhajir

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William T said:
As far as I know, some of the best grapes in the world are grown in California, and the rest of America is at best third rate and this will be hard to change within the next 25 years.  What are your goals?  What are you trying to accomplish?  I come from an area that's not rot gut awful to grow grapes, but still...it's a very limited market for quality unless you are thinking about some long term plan or have an immediate demand in your neighborhood.
I'm down in the southern Missouri Ozarks and we can grow several varieties.  Up in the northern part of the Ozarks, there's an area called the Missouri Rhineland that produces award-winning wines.  I recently discovered that up until Prohibition, Missouri was the #2 wine producer, just behind California.  In fact, France's wine grapes were saved by a Missouri vitoculturist who brought several vines to France that are resistant to some type of fungus that was ruing their grape vines. 
 

Jibrail Almuhajir

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Porter ODoran said:
William T said:
As far as I know, some of the best grapes in the world are grown in California, and the rest of America is at best third rate and this will be hard to change within the next 25 years.  What are your goals?  What are you trying to accomplish?  I come from an area that's not rot gut awful to grow grapes, but still...it's a very limited market for quality unless you are thinking about some long term plan or have an immediate demand in your neighborhood.
I assume you live in some kind of tenement, but as a rule Americans grow grapes for pleasure all over the U.S. Here in my town, there isn't a street without a grape arbor in a front yard, sometimes pretty spectacular specimens growing up over a porch. In the deep rural area where I grew up, people'd grow multiple varieties just like they'd raise multiple varieties of chickens. Grapes are also found wild in the woods most places.
What variety do you grow?  Have you had much luck?  And have you ever tried making your own wine?
 

Porter ODoran

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GabrieltheCelt said:
Porter ODoran said:
William T said:
As far as I know, some of the best grapes in the world are grown in California, and the rest of America is at best third rate and this will be hard to change within the next 25 years.  What are your goals?  What are you trying to accomplish?  I come from an area that's not rot gut awful to grow grapes, but still...it's a very limited market for quality unless you are thinking about some long term plan or have an immediate demand in your neighborhood.
I assume you live in some kind of tenement, but as a rule Americans grow grapes for pleasure all over the U.S. Here in my town, there isn't a street without a grape arbor in a front yard, sometimes pretty spectacular specimens growing up over a porch. In the deep rural area where I grew up, people'd grow multiple varieties just like they'd raise multiple varieties of chickens. Grapes are also found wild in the woods most places.
What variety do you grow?  Have you had much luck?  And have you ever tried making your own wine?
Not sure what it is. Some golden-green kind the cuttings of which get passed around. My parents had concords and made tons of juice to can. My wife has only ever made fruit wines. I'm not going to be of use to you.
 

Jibrail Almuhajir

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Porter ODoran said:
GabrieltheCelt said:
Porter ODoran said:
William T said:
As far as I know, some of the best grapes in the world are grown in California, and the rest of America is at best third rate and this will be hard to change within the next 25 years.  What are your goals?  What are you trying to accomplish?  I come from an area that's not rot gut awful to grow grapes, but still...it's a very limited market for quality unless you are thinking about some long term plan or have an immediate demand in your neighborhood.
I assume you live in some kind of tenement, but as a rule Americans grow grapes for pleasure all over the U.S. Here in my town, there isn't a street without a grape arbor in a front yard, sometimes pretty spectacular specimens growing up over a porch. In the deep rural area where I grew up, people'd grow multiple varieties just like they'd raise multiple varieties of chickens. Grapes are also found wild in the woods most places.
What variety do you grow?  Have you had much luck?  And have you ever tried making your own wine?
Not sure what it is. Some golden-green kind the cuttings of which get passed around. My parents had concords and made tons of juice to can. My wife has only ever made fruit wines. I'm not going to be of use to you.
Don't sell yourself short, you never know.  I'm not a wine drinker so I ain't looking for tips on that.
 

William T

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Porter ODoran said:
William T said:
As far as I know, some of the best grapes in the world are grown in California, and the rest of America is at best third rate and this will be hard to change within the next 25 years.  What are your goals?  What are you trying to accomplish?  I come from an area that's not rot gut awful to grow grapes, but still...it's a very limited market for quality unless you are thinking about some long term plan or have an immediate demand in your neighborhood.
I assume you live in some kind of tenement, but as a rule Americans grow grapes for pleasure all over the U.S. Here in my town, there isn't a street without a grape arbor in a front yard, sometimes pretty spectacular specimens growing up over a porch. In the deep rural area where I grew up, people'd grow multiple varieties just like they'd raise multiple varieties of chickens. Grapes are also found wild in the woods most places.
my bad: bartender mode, I'm thinking about wine.  MI has OK grapes by US standards.  NY Is world class for a specific kind of Ice Wine.  California, some say, is on par with even Italy for many wines.

As far as eating grapes for Middle Eastern standards NW Ohio /SW s MI is fine I guess, but I'm assuming that isn't the OP's concern.
 

William T

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GabrieltheCelt said:
William T said:
As far as I know, some of the best grapes in the world are grown in California, and the rest of America is at best third rate and this will be hard to change within the next 25 years.  What are your goals?  What are you trying to accomplish?  I come from an area that's not rot gut awful to grow grapes, but still...it's a very limited market for quality unless you are thinking about some long term plan or have an immediate demand in your neighborhood.
I'm down in the southern Missouri Ozarks and we can grow several varieties.  Up in the northern part of the Ozarks, there's an area called the Missouri Rhineland that produces award-winning wines.  I recently discovered that up until Prohibition, Missouri was the #2 wine producer, just behind California.  In fact, France's wine grapes were saved by a Missouri vitoculturist who brought several vines to France that are resistant to some type of fungus that was ruing their grape vines.
give me a week or two about this, I know some top notch wine guys.  If you have specific questions let me know, and I'll try to get them answered.  These guys love to ramble about wine, for some reason or another I don't remember them mentioning Missouri. Anyway let me know specifics, hopefully I can get back to you with a productive answer.
 

Jibrail Almuhajir

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William T said:
GabrieltheCelt said:
William T said:
As far as I know, some of the best grapes in the world are grown in California, and the rest of America is at best third rate and this will be hard to change within the next 25 years.  What are your goals?  What are you trying to accomplish?  I come from an area that's not rot gut awful to grow grapes, but still...it's a very limited market for quality unless you are thinking about some long term plan or have an immediate demand in your neighborhood.
I'm down in the southern Missouri Ozarks and we can grow several varieties.  Up in the northern part of the Ozarks, there's an area called the Missouri Rhineland that produces award-winning wines.  I recently discovered that up until Prohibition, Missouri was the #2 wine producer, just behind California.  In fact, France's wine grapes were saved by a Missouri vitoculturist who brought several vines to France that are resistant to some type of fungus that was ruing their grape vines.
give me a week or two about this, I know some top notch wine guys.  If you have specific questions let me know, and I'll try to get them answered.  These guys love to ramble about wine, for some reason or another I don't remember them mentioning Missouri. Anyway let me know specifics, hopefully I can get back to you with a productive answer.
Thanks friend, but I'm really interested in pruning techniques.  The first two years I pruned the grapes before they could ripen as I read that helps strengthen the roots.  The third and fourth year (this year) I pruned them back probably too far.  The third year really gave me a bunch of bunches but this year, not so much. 
 

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Back in the homeland I used to . Could produce thousands of liters of cheap home made wine. In practice only kept a couple hundred liters. The rest became grappa/raki.
 

William T

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GabrieltheCelt said:
William T said:
GabrieltheCelt said:
William T said:
As far as I know, some of the best grapes in the world are grown in California, and the rest of America is at best third rate and this will be hard to change within the next 25 years.  What are your goals?  What are you trying to accomplish?  I come from an area that's not rot gut awful to grow grapes, but still...it's a very limited market for quality unless you are thinking about some long term plan or have an immediate demand in your neighborhood.
I'm down in the southern Missouri Ozarks and we can grow several varieties.  Up in the northern part of the Ozarks, there's an area called the Missouri Rhineland that produces award-winning wines.  I recently discovered that up until Prohibition, Missouri was the #2 wine producer, just behind California.  In fact, France's wine grapes were saved by a Missouri vitoculturist who brought several vines to France that are resistant to some type of fungus that was ruing their grape vines.
give me a week or two about this, I know some top notch wine guys.  If you have specific questions let me know, and I'll try to get them answered.  These guys love to ramble about wine, for some reason or another I don't remember them mentioning Missouri. Anyway let me know specifics, hopefully I can get back to you with a productive answer.
Thanks friend, but I'm really interested in pruning techniques.  The first two years I pruned the grapes before they could ripen as I read that helps strengthen the roots.  The third and fourth year (this year) I pruned them back probably too far.  The third year really gave me a bunch of bunches but this year, not so much.
oh sorry about that.  all I know is a basic 101 rule on that:  if you have to many leaves start cutting...too much shade.  I'll still have to follow up on the grapes in MO though, I had no idea they were that good.  Thanks for that info!
 

Jibrail Almuhajir

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William T said:
GabrieltheCelt said:
William T said:
GabrieltheCelt said:
William T said:
As far as I know, some of the best grapes in the world are grown in California, and the rest of America is at best third rate and this will be hard to change within the next 25 years.  What are your goals?  What are you trying to accomplish?  I come from an area that's not rot gut awful to grow grapes, but still...it's a very limited market for quality unless you are thinking about some long term plan or have an immediate demand in your neighborhood.
I'm down in the southern Missouri Ozarks and we can grow several varieties.  Up in the northern part of the Ozarks, there's an area called the Missouri Rhineland that produces award-winning wines.  I recently discovered that up until Prohibition, Missouri was the #2 wine producer, just behind California.  In fact, France's wine grapes were saved by a Missouri vitoculturist who brought several vines to France that are resistant to some type of fungus that was ruing their grape vines.
give me a week or two about this, I know some top notch wine guys.  If you have specific questions let me know, and I'll try to get them answered.  These guys love to ramble about wine, for some reason or another I don't remember them mentioning Missouri. Anyway let me know specifics, hopefully I can get back to you with a productive answer.
Thanks friend, but I'm really interested in pruning techniques.  The first two years I pruned the grapes before they could ripen as I read that helps strengthen the roots.  The third and fourth year (this year) I pruned them back probably too far.  The third year really gave me a bunch of bunches but this year, not so much.
oh sorry about that.  all I know is a basic 101 rule on that:  if you have to many leaves start cutting...too much shade.  I'll still have to follow up on the grapes in MO though, I had no idea they were that good.  Thanks for that info!
You're welcome and thank you!
 

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augustin717 said:
Back in the homeland I used to . Could produce thousands of liters of cheap home made wine. In practice only kept a couple hundred liters. The rest became grappa/raki.
I dated an Italian girl from northern Italy, she said in the villages  all make homemade grappa from the excess wine.  The couple samples from different villages she gave me were amazing.

Aren't you Romanian?  If I remember correctly I think you guys and Serbs are OK with good wine as well and even have something of an international market,
 

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Re pruning: some hard pruning in early spring, only leaving a 1-2 buds per vine shoot . Then clipping the tips ad some dude off shoots in June . Maybe even one more time later depending on how vigorous the new growth is. And of course spraying them at least twice before vegetation and during vegetation with that Bordeaux solution . That's what I remember.
 

Jibrail Almuhajir

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augustin717 said:
Re pruning: some hard pruning in early spring, only leaving a 1-2 buds per vine shoot . Then clipping the tips ad some dude off shoots in June . Maybe even one more time later depending on how vigorous the new growth is. And of course spraying them at least twice before vegetation and during vegetation with that Bordeaux solution . That's what I remember.
Yeah, I do some hard pruning in early spring before it starts warming up so there are never any buds.  Maybe I'm pruning too early?  Not sure.  I've read you're not supposed to prune when growing season starts, but maybe that was bad info.  I've never sprayed them with anything.  About mid-May, the vines shoots are about 12 to 15 feet long.  I'm thinking maybe I need to prune that way back beginning in June.

Thanks for the tips.
 

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William T said:
augustin717 said:
Back in the homeland I used to . Could produce thousands of liters of cheap home made wine. In practice only kept a couple hundred liters. The rest became grappa/raki.
I dated an Italian girl from northern Italy, she said in the villages  all make homemade grappa from the excess wine.  The couple samples from different villages she gave me were amazing.

Aren't you Romanian?  If I remember correctly I think you guys and Serbs are OK with good wine as well and even have something of an international market,
yeah Romania has been a  pretty  big wine producer. The quality varies widely for many reasons. Eastern Europe was also slower to adopt the new wine making trends and tastes so they still like sweet wines or fortified shlock a lot.
The home made wine is generally bad because American varieties resistant to the folic era have invaded people's courtyards and backyards. Where the older, local varieties such as ,in my region the Cadarca /Kadarka survive, the wine can be ok even if homemade.
 

augustin717

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GabrieltheCelt said:
augustin717 said:
Re pruning: some hard pruning in early spring, only leaving a 1-2 buds per vine shoot . Then clipping the tips ad some dude off shoots in June . Maybe even one more time later depending on how vigorous the new growth is. And of course spraying them at least twice before vegetation and during vegetation with that Bordeaux solution . That's what I remember.
Yeah, I do some hard pruning in early spring before it starts warming up so there are never any buds.  Maybe I'm pruning too early?  Not sure.  I've read you're not supposed to prune when growing season starts, but maybe that was bad info.  I've never sprayed them with anything.  About mid-May, the vines shoots are about 12 to 15 feet long.  I'm thinking maybe I need to prune that way back beginning in June.

Thanks for the tips.
Re. Vegetation pruning we used to cut the shoots, or rather snap them off-  down to 2 leaves above the last grape.
 

Ainnir

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GabrieltheCelt said:
Ainnir said:
My mom has or had grapes.  She doesn't like Muscadines all that well, either.  I'll try to remember to ask them for any lessons learned, for what it's worth (not sure it will translate to your latitude, altitude, zone, all that jazz).
We're in Zone 6.  Muscadines are OK, I've had really sour ones and semi-sweet ones.  The ones that grow here (upland mountain south) have sort of a rubbery skin.
Well they basically said they failed miserably.  :laugh:  First season was ok, second they got a disease I can't recall the name of (lovely memory I have ;D).  They haven't tried since, so haven't had to fiddle with pruning.  What they have now are Muscadines growing like crazy that they don't eat.  We're in zone 7/8, so probably a little bit of difference, anyway.  Looks like you've had some good info, though!  :)
 

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One Zinfandel and one red seedless table grape vines.  Second year, no fruit yet.
 

Jibrail Almuhajir

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hecma925 said:
One Zinfandel and one red seedless table grape vines.  Second year, no fruit yet.
How old are your vines?  Have you done much pruning?  The first three years after I planted mine, I pinched off the fruit long before it could ripen so that the roots could strengthen.  The fourth year I had a pretty good crop, but this year was less than stellar.  I'll work on my pruning skills this coming spring.
 

Jibrail Almuhajir

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Have any y'all tried to germinate your seeds?  I've got some seeds from this year and would like to try and germinate them.  I've had great luck with our Japanese maple, but fruit is way different.
 
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