Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?

LivenotoneviL

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hecma925 said:
What's with wiping the crucifix after each person venerates it?
Unlike a regular icon, I think here every single person kisses the same general location, so it's more difficult to avoid lipstick / lip balm marks.
 

hecma925

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LivenotoneviL said:
hecma925 said:
What's with wiping the crucifix after each person venerates it?
Unlike a regular icon, I think here every single person kisses the same general location, so it's more difficult to avoid lipstick / lip balm marks.
Most people kiss the same general area of an icon too.
 

LivenotoneviL

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Not necessarily - some people kiss the bottom, some people kiss the hands, the dress, some people kiss the center of the icon, some people kiss the feet of other Saints that may be on the icon, etc. etc.

Here, you have to kiss Jesus's feet.

I don't know, it's clearly a carryover from Western practice.
 

Dominika

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hecma925 said:
What's with the black cloth on the floor?
As far I know, in (at least Polish) Roman Catholic tradition (before the Vaticanum II) during the Mass for departed a cataphalk was put in the middle of the church.
 

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Dominika said:
hecma925 said:
What's with the black cloth on the floor?
As far I know, in (at least Polish) Roman Catholic tradition (before the Vaticanum II) during the Mass for departed a cataphalk was put in the middle of the church.
The usual spelling is catafalque; it was a platform or bier the coffin was placed on; the coffin was covered with a black veil. On All Souls Day and at Requiem Masses without a body, the veil was placed directly on the catafalque. Not sure why it's on the floor; that's certainly not the Roman-rite usage.
 

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Dominika said:
hecma925 said:
What's with the black cloth on the floor?
As far I know, in (at least Polish) Roman Catholic tradition (before the Vaticanum II) during the Mass for departed a cataphalk was put in the middle of the church.
Yes, today on the fast of All Souls, in all the traditional parishes of my city, RC or Anglican or otherwise, a catafalque (not just a cloth on the floor) was set up, incensed and sprayed with holy water after or durin the end of Mass.
 

Alpha60

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Briven said:





Sant Appollinare in Ravenna. Going to count it as western rite Orthodox given that it is pre schism and features correct western iconography without canonical breaking - note how the mosaicist did not portray Christ as a lamb but rather had the lambs (christians) looking towards the Holy Cross which features the Holy Face.

This is truly western iconography, and the entire church was covered in the same thing until the venetians redid everything but the apse.
I have to confess I even like the Venetian parts.  On the whole I would say the iconography is better than at St. Savior’s in Moscow, which is rather overly Western in terms of its iconography.  In the case of this church, one could put up an elegant iconostasis without affecting the visibility of any of the splendid iconography and have a turnkey Orthodox parish; in fact, I’ll bet there was at one time a templon or rood screen or chancel screen in there of some sort.  Removing the templons / chancel screens and rood screens was chiefly a post-Tridentine innovation advocated by the Dominicans and Franciscans, who had built their friaries and churches in such a manner.  It was kind of the 16th century equivalent of celebration versus populum and a bit naughty IMO.
 

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Prepare for a slew:

St Athanasius Orthodox Church, Davenport, Iowa



Christ the King parish, Tullytown, PA



St Andrew's Orthodox Church, Reno NV



 

Alpha60

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I have to confess St. Andrew’s looks like the best they were able to do on a very limited budget, but that more work is needed.  Christ the King and St. Athanasius on the other hand are beautiful (although in the case of St Athanasius, do they always leave the font in the center of the solea?  It looks a bit awkward).
 

ROCORWRVUK

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Alpha60 said:
in the case of St Athanasius, do they always leave the font in the center of the solea?  It looks a bit awkward.
It appears to be movable and was probably there for Theophany.
 

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Wooow! I've never seen this part of Eastern Orthodoxy, beautiful!!!
 

ROCORWRVUK

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ROCOR's Western Rite Monastery of the Assumption in Eisbergen, Germany:

















Note the traditional Roman tonsure as sported by the Subdeacon!
 

Iconodule

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Nice pictures. I'm not really a fan of the fiddleback chasuble though.
 

Eamonomae

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Iconodule said:
Nice pictures. I'm not really a fan of the fiddleback chasuble though.
I'm gonna be perfectly honest - I actually love the fiddleback chasuble for the Western Rite. All it is is a development from the Gothic chasuble.

12th century:


15th century:





16th century:




I mean, the 4th century Church's chasubles were pretty much indistinguishable from the civilian dress of the Roman Empire - if we are going to allow post-schism developments of the Roman Mass (genuflecting, liturgical colors, flattened bread, the altar rail, the Last Gospel, certain post-schism devotions like Our Lady of Walsingham, commemorating post-schism Saints like Edward the Confessor, Ash Wednesday which - pre-schism - St. Photius explicitly condemned, etc.), are we going to be that petty about a vestment that actually has an Orthodox history in it's prototype, that is used?

How is this any more radical than what the Russian Orthodox Church uses, where the vestments are maximized and cover the head of the Priest?
 

Eamonomae

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Plus, the fiddleback chasubles used in this monastery are very plain, which is far more in line with the Pre-Schism Church than the extravagant Gothic vestments one could see.

 

Eamonomae

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I've heard plenty of people argue against, though, the Fiddleback Chasuble on the basis of it being "post-schism." Like this website:
https://orthodoxwesternrite.wordpress.com/a-western-rite-orthodox-parish/
 

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What was the reasoning behind turning the cross on the back into a "Y-shape?"
 

Eamonomae

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Volnutt said:
What was the reasoning behind turning the cross on the back into a "Y-shape?"
According to Jungmann:

"Development is also to be found in practical paramentics. The Gothic
chasuble is still broad and mantle-like, but the two ornamental stripes
falling down from the shoulder and joined as a line down the middle
became in time a forked cross and this in turn became (on the back of the
chasuble) a regular cross with horizontal cross-beam. This development
means that the allegorical presentation of the Crucified could be imaged
even in the external figuration, but it also led...to a richer and
richer ornamentation..."

http://www.ccwatershed.org/media/pdfs/14/01/25/13-08-01_0.pdf
 

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Western Orthodoxy makes me drool.... I yearn to know the feeling of living back in 6th-7th century Gaul as a churchgoing blacksmith or deacon or somesuch, my parish deeply secluded in a cooled mystical forest in those dark and temperate hinterlands of the obscure forests of Late Antiquity... perhaps I would help convert the last few remaining pagans and enjoy a simple Frankish roast after a long day, as I recline in my shed and pray in bucolic bliss. :) Perfection.
 

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reclusivus said:
Western Orthodoxy makes me drool.... I yearn to know the feeling of living back in 6th-7th century Gaul as a churchgoing blacksmith or deacon or somesuch, my parish deeply secluded in a cooled mystical forest in those dark and temperate hinterlands of the obscure forests of Late Antiquity... perhaps I would help convert the last few remaining pagans and enjoy a simple Frankish roast after a long day, as I recline in my shed and pray in bucolic bliss. :) Perfection.
Make-believe is fun.
 

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Oops, replied to a rather old comment that doesn't need further dissection :)
 

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This is a mosaic in the basilica of Notre Dame de Fourviere in Lyon, depicting the council of Ephesus.
 

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juliogb said:


This is a mosaic in the basilica of Notre Dame de Fourviere in Lyon, depicting the council of Ephesus.
Fail, in at least two ways.

They've spelled Theotokos wrong. The correct letter is a K, not an X. And why on earth is she wearing clerical cuffs and orarion? Yes, they are clerical cuffs, because they have crosses on them.  :eek: :p
 

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LBK said:
juliogb said:


This is a mosaic in the basilica of Notre Dame de Fourviere in Lyon, depicting the council of Ephesus.
Fail, in at least two ways.

They've spelled Theotokos wrong. The correct letter is a K, not an X. And why on earth is she wearing clerical cuffs and orarion? Yes, they are clerical cuffs, because they have crosses on them.  :eek: :p
Yeah, the artist probably took a lot of creative liberties in this mosaic and wasn't familiar with greek language, it is a beautifully made mosaic, I didn't realize those obvious errors in it at first.
 

Alpha60

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juliogb said:


This is a mosaic in the basilica of Notre Dame de Fourviere in Lyon, depicting the council of Ephesus.
This is in my opinion stunningly beautiful, although this is not a WRO parish.  In the EO-RC parish there is a thread of pictures of beautiful Western churches.  Here are some more photos of this church which is so beautiful: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilica_of_Notre-Dame_de_Fourvière

Of late, traditional Latin mass groups have been reviving the Rite of Lyon, which became extinct after 1969, like the Carmelite Rite.  Whereas one could argue about the merits of using RC monastic rites in the Orthodox Western Rite, the importation of the regional rites is a very good idea, since in many cases, only the Western Rite Orthodox are prepared to celebrate the traditional liturgy.
 

Alpha60

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Eamonomae said:
Iconodule said:
Nice pictures. I'm not really a fan of the fiddleback chasuble though.
I'm gonna be perfectly honest - I actually love the fiddleback chasuble for the Western Rite. All it is is a development from the Gothic chasuble.

12th century:


15th century:





16th century:




I mean, the 4th century Church's chasubles were pretty much indistinguishable from the civilian dress of the Roman Empire - if we are going to allow post-schism developments of the Roman Mass (genuflecting, liturgical colors, flattened bread, the altar rail, the Last Gospel, certain post-schism devotions like Our Lady of Walsingham, commemorating post-schism Saints like Edward the Confessor, Ash Wednesday which - pre-schism - St. Photius explicitly condemned, etc.), are we going to be that petty about a vestment that actually has an Orthodox history in it's prototype, that is used?

How is this any more radical than what the Russian Orthodox Church uses, where the vestments are maximized and cover the head of the Priest?
+1
 

Alpha60

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LBK said:
juliogb said:


This is a mosaic in the basilica of Notre Dame de Fourviere in Lyon, depicting the council of Ephesus.
Fail, in at least two ways.

They've spelled Theotokos wrong. The correct letter is a K, not an X. And why on earth is she wearing clerical cuffs and orarion? Yes, they are clerical cuffs, because they have crosses on them.  :eek: :p
Let’s just spend the whole Pentecost nitpicking at minor details of the iconography of churches that don’t belong to the Orthodox and/or are esteemed cultural treasures. 
 

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Alpha60 said:
LBK said:
juliogb said:


This is a mosaic in the basilica of Notre Dame de Fourviere in Lyon, depicting the council of Ephesus.
Fail, in at least two ways.

They've spelled Theotokos wrong. The correct letter is a K, not an X. And why on earth is she wearing clerical cuffs and orarion? Yes, they are clerical cuffs, because they have crosses on them.  :eek: :p
Let’s just spend the whole Pentecost nitpicking at minor details of the iconography of churches that don’t belong to the Orthodox and/or are esteemed cultural treasures.
Esteemed cultural treasure? The original church may well be. Minor detail? Misspelling the Mother of God's title is not. Neither is misrepresenting her as holding clerical rank. Especially as this mosaic is not the work of a rustic iconographer in some isolated village, but a work which must have taken countless hours in planning and execution. Yet these errors are glaringly obvious. "Beauty" does not trump serious and sloppy errors like this.

Furthermore, this photograph was posted in a thread on WRO churches. Juliogb posted the picture, not me.  :mad: That said, I highly doubt it is a teaching of the RCC that the Mother of God has the privilege of clerical rank.
 
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