Are you annoyed by evangelists?

[Liz]

When a Protestant declines to hear from a saint, maybe you should appeal to Proverbs 18:13, which declares it foolish and shameful to answer or reject what we haven't heard.  You might also want to cite a Bible passage that concurs with the saints' words you'd like considered, and you might remind your Protestant friends that John Calvin himself quoted St. Augustine.

Oh, that's nice. By the way, the fact that some people act as Calvinists doesn't mean that they surely know about Calvin. It might be just their interpretation that leads them to believe in predestination.

GammaRay, you and Liz write as though you could read people's minds and predict their response.  Have you forgotten that Jesus, who "knew what was in man" (John 2:25), came to His own even though He knew they wouldn't receive Him (John 1:11).  If we're supposed to be Christ-like, how could it be orthodox for any of us not to patiently witness as our Savior did?

You're quite right. It's unChristian for us to judge people like this. I just need more patience with Evangelicals - I have had some fairly nasty experiences with people around where I am, but of course that's to do with individuals and I shouldn't judge other members of the same groups on that basis.

Jesus taught, "If anyone wills to do [God's] will, he shall know concerning the doctrine whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority" (John 7:17 NKJV).  This could help people realize the importance of relying on a holy person for guidance and instruction.

They just believe that the Saints are misled and only the Scripture holdsthe truth. See, fastings, prayers, almsgiving and their rest righteous deeds do not count for them, since the Scripture is above everything.

Again, you're assuming what none of us can know--the response an evangelical or protestant will give.  Mind you, I'm not saying we shouldn't stop unfruitful conversations (Titus 3:10-11).  We should, though, "be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear" (1 Peter 3:15 NKJV).  By the way, the Orthodox Study Bible counts 1 Peter 3:15 as "a challenge to all--clergy and laity alike--to answer when asked about our hope in Christ with meekness and fear."

[/quote]

 

[Liz]

Btw, a Saint who said he did not fear God any longer, might perhaps simply have a more complete and scrupulous insight into his own faults - knowing that you deserve judgement can remove fear. I don't see it as being an arrogant statement.

 

[antiderivative]

I just came across this thread, and having recently come across an article, I've decided to use this thread to vent my frustration on a certain website (sorry, I can't help it). Seeing that I have not found an Orthodox response to some of the blatant errors on this website, I've decided to share it:

http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles/The_Influential_Nature_of_Orthodoxy_Endangers_Christians.pdf

For example this is one of things that drives me crazy! Here is a quote:

Although Orthodoxy claims its origins from the first apostles, its actual start came after the Roman Emperor Constantine in the Fourth Century A.D. founded the state church for the empire.

I think if I see one more Constantine conspiracy theory, I'll morph into the Hulk. Sorry for being ranty, but for some odd reason I feel better knowing I'm not the only Orthodox Christian who is annoyed by these bad polemics.

 

[HandmaidenofGod]

People in general can be annoying. (Myself included.) Why pick on just one group?

 

[mathetes]

Btw, a Saint who said he did not fear God any longer, might perhaps simply have a more complete and scrupulous insight into his own faults - knowing that you deserve judgement can remove fear. I don't see it as being an arrogant statement.

Liz, thanks for your kind responses.  Because of an out-of-town business trip, I must be away from my home PC till Sept. 16.  Lord willing, I'll check back then.

 

[Super Apostolic Bros.]

Am I annoyed by evangelists?

Short answer: No.

More detailed answer: My mother and her family were born and raised in the Philippines and were ministered to by American Protestant missionaries. Mother always spoke of them in the most positive light, because truly without them she (and probably I) would be worse off than we are now. I believe, having had the opportunity to meet some of them, that they worked out of a genuine fear of the Lord and a genuine love for people.

Fast Forward to March 2009

I was in an anime convention (because I am a nerd) and I saw a group of "evangelists" who were holding provocative signs such as "Turn to Jesus or Burn in Hell." It was clear to me that they were not simply interested in spreading the Gospel but breathing down the necks of "unChristian looking" people. I tried to rebuke them using Scripture but they accused me of not knowing Scripture. Those idiots.



What also annoys me is the assumption by many Protestants that Catholics and Orthodox follow a dead traditionalism that isn't genuine. I wonder then why people like Francis Beckwith or Peter Gillquist turn in their genuine faith for "dead traditionalism."

 

[GammaRay]

My mother and her family were born and raised in the Philippines and were ministered to by American Protestant missionaries. Mother always spoke of them in the most positive light, because truly without them she (and probably I) would be worse off than we are now. I believe, having had the opportunity to meet some of them, that they worked out of a genuine fear of the Lord and a genuine love for people.

I'm not annoyed by good people either.

I was in an anime convention (because I am a nerd) and I saw a group of "evangelists" who were holding provocative signs such as "Turn to Jesus or Burn in Hell." It was clear to me that they were not simply interested in spreading the Gospel but breathing down the necks of "unChristian looking" people. I tried to rebuke them using Scripture but they accused me of not knowing Scripture. Those idiots.

Lol, I'd love to see that.

 

[Asteriktos]

I like watching the evangelists on TV. It's interesting to see how different people believe radically different things, sometimes even based on the same information. The only ones who annoy me are the ones that bilk people out of their money, claiming cures and miracles and blessings in exchange for "love offerings".

 

[Alveus Lacuna]

I like watching the evangelists on TV. It's interesting to see how different people believe radically different things, sometimes even based on the same information. The only ones who annoy me are the ones that bilk people out of their money, claiming cures and miracles and blessings in exchange for "love offerings".

Sow that seed!

 

[Super Apostolic Bros.]

I like watching the evangelists on TV. It's interesting to see how different people believe radically different things, sometimes even based on the same information. The only ones who annoy me are the ones that bilk people out of their money, claiming cures and miracles and blessings in exchange for "love offerings".

Modern day disciples of Simon the Sorcerer, though in reverse.

 

[BTRAKAS]

No.  It's good to have fundamental Christians articulating the Gospel to this society, which so lacks Christian spirituality, even though they do not proclaim the fullness of the faith that Orthodoxy processes.

 

[PeterTheAleut]

No.  It's good to have fundamental Christians articulating the Gospel to this society, which so lacks Christian spirituality, even though they do not proclaim the fullness of the faith that Orthodoxy processes.

How does Orthodoxy process the faith? ???

 

[SolEX01]

No.  It's good to have fundamental Christians articulating the Gospel to this society, which so lacks Christian spirituality, even though they do not proclaim the fullness of the faith that Orthodoxy processes.

How does Orthodoxy process the faith? ???

Based on the context, I believe Basil intended to say possesses although he can clarify that himself. 

 

[BTRAKAS]

Thank you SolEx01 for comprehending my error.  What you noted was my intention to have written.

 

[Ortho_cat]

I've encountered this attitude from plenty of people, ... asking me if I'm prepared to take Jesus Christ as my Personal Saviour? (Answer: No, I'm not so selfish as to pretend Christ is 'my Personal Saviour', and I suspect He is the Saviour whether I want Him to be or not).

Well said, Liz!

Well let's be careful here. While evangelicals pervert the concept of a personal relationship with Christ, the idea in itself is not unOrthodox. The point is that our relationship with Christ is not individualistic and exclusive; it is both personal and corporate, finding its expression and fulfillment in and through the Church.



Selam

I think that this exclusivity is highly emphasized today. The idea that one can "have a relationship" with Christ, the head of the body,  while having little or no involvement with the rest of the body is very un-Christian indeed.

 

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

I used to soak up evangelical preaching and teaching on the radio. I loved to listen to R.C. Sproul, J. Vernon McGhee, Charles Stanley, Chuck Swindoll, John MacArthur, David Jeremiah, and others. When I first became Orthodox, I still listened to these people for a while. But I soon realized that I would never understand Orthodoxy unless I "de-programmed" myself from evangelical errors.

By the grace of God, I have met Orthodox friends online who have generously sent me CD's of Orthodox sermons and Liturgies. These resources have been a real blessing to me.


Selam 

 

[Papist]

I used to soak up evangelical preaching and teaching on the radio. I loved to listen to R.C. Sproul, J. Vernon McGhee, Charles Stanley, Chuck Swindoll, John MacArthur, David Jeremiah, and others. When I first became Orthodox, I still listened to these people for a while. But I soon realized that I would never understand Orthodoxy unless I "de-programmed" myself from evangelical errors.

By the grace of God, I have met Orthodox friends online who have generously sent me CD's of Orthodox sermons and Liturgies. These resources have been a real blessing to me.


Selam 

I think that R.C. Sproul is one fo the most intelligent of these men.

 

[sprtslvr1973]

I wonder then why people like Francis Beckwith or Peter Gillquist turn in their genuine faith for "dead traditionalism."

Don't you know that those guys could not have been Christians in the first place  :

 

[JamesR]

Depends on the preacher. Some of them are genuinely faithful and honestly just ignorant of the Truth, these ones I don't really mind and they usually actually enjoy dialogue with the Orthodox. I met a guy like this at the mall once--some old veteran who was preaching. I told him about Orthodoxy and he accepted what I said. But then you have others that are ignorant out of malice, think everyone else is going to western Hell and hate anything RC/EO.

 

[PeterTheAleut]

Depends on the preacher. Some of them are genuinely faithful and honestly just ignorant of the Truth, these ones I don't really mind and they usually actually enjoy dialogue with the Orthodox. I met a guy like this at the mall once--some old veteran who was preaching. I told him about Orthodoxy and he accepted what I said. But then you have others that are ignorant out of malice, think everyone else is going to western Hell and hate anything RC/EO.

To the OP: I'm annoyed by posters who resurrect threads only to say essentially nothing new. :

 

[trevor72694]

Depends on the preacher. Some of them are genuinely faithful and honestly just ignorant of the Truth, these ones I don't really mind and they usually actually enjoy dialogue with the Orthodox. I met a guy like this at the mall once--some old veteran who was preaching. I told him about Orthodoxy and he accepted what I said. But then you have others that are ignorant out of malice, think everyone else is going to western Hell and hate anything RC/EO.

To the OP: I'm annoyed by posters who resurrect threads only to say essentially nothing new. :

+1

 

[biro]

Depends on the preacher. Some of them are genuinely faithful and honestly just ignorant of the Truth, these ones I don't really mind and they usually actually enjoy dialogue with the Orthodox. I met a guy like this at the mall once--some old veteran who was preaching. I told him about Orthodoxy and he accepted what I said. But then you have others that are ignorant out of malice, think everyone else is going to western Hell and hate anything RC/EO.

To the OP: I'm annoyed by posters who resurrect threads only to say essentially nothing new. :

This!

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Oh my--there's a lot of thread ressurrection going on in these here parts.  8)

 

[PeterTheAleut]

Oh my--there's a lot of thread ressurrection going on in these here parts.  8)

Yes, the Creed says "I look for the resurrection of the dead," not the resurrection of the thread. :laugh:

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Oh my--there's a lot of thread ressurrection going on in these here parts.  8)

Yes, the Creed says "I look for the resurrection of the dead," not the resurrection of the thread. :laugh:

HA, HA!!! 

 

[Monk Vasyl]

Oh my--there's a lot of thread ressurrection going on in these here parts.  8)

Yes, the Creed says "I look for the resurrection of the dead," not the resurrection of the thread. :laugh:

HA, HA!!! 

LOL, I needed a good laugh.

 

[Eastern Mind]

Oh my--there's a lot of thread ressurrection going on in these here parts.  8)

Yes, the Creed says "I look for the resurrection of the dead," not the resurrection of the thread. :laugh:

Ah that's awesome!  :laugh: