• A blessed Nativity / Theophany season to all! For users new and old: the forum rules were streamlined when we transitioned to the new software. Please ensure that you are familiar with them. Continued use of the forum means that you (a) know the rules, and (b) pledge that you'll abide by them. For more information, check out the OrthodoxChristianity.Net Rules section. (There are only 2 threads there - Rules, and Administrative Structure.)

Are you annoyed by evangelists?

Liz

High Elder
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
989
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
36
Location
Oxford, England and York, England
mathetes said:
GammaRay said:
mathetes said:
When a Protestant declines to hear from a saint, maybe you should appeal to Proverbs 18:13, which declares it foolish and shameful to answer or reject what we haven't heard.  You might also want to cite a Bible passage that concurs with the saints' words you'd like considered, and you might remind your Protestant friends that John Calvin himself quoted St. Augustine.
Oh, that's nice. By the way, the fact that some people act as Calvinists doesn't mean that they surely know about Calvin. It might be just their interpretation that leads them to believe in predestination.
GammaRay, you and Liz write as though you could read people's minds and predict their response.  Have you forgotten that Jesus, who "knew what was in man" (John 2:25), came to His own even though He knew they wouldn't receive Him (John 1:11).  If we're supposed to be Christ-like, how could it be orthodox for any of us not to patiently witness as our Savior did?
You're quite right. It's unChristian for us to judge people like this. I just need more patience with Evangelicals - I have had some fairly nasty experiences with people around where I am, but of course that's to do with individuals and I shouldn't judge other members of the same groups on that basis.



GammaRay said:
mathetes said:
Jesus taught, "If anyone wills to do [God's] will, he shall know concerning the doctrine whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority" (John 7:17 NKJV).  This could help people realize the importance of relying on a holy person for guidance and instruction.
They just believe that the Saints are misled and only the Scripture holdsthe truth. See, fastings, prayers, almsgiving and their rest righteous deeds do not count for them, since the Scripture is above everything.
Again, you're assuming what none of us can know--the response an evangelical or protestant will give.  Mind you, I'm not saying we shouldn't stop unfruitful conversations (Titus 3:10-11).  We should, though, "be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear" (1 Peter 3:15 NKJV).  By the way, the Orthodox Study Bible counts 1 Peter 3:15 as "a challenge to all--clergy and laity alike--to answer when asked about our hope in Christ with meekness and fear."

[/quote]
 

Liz

High Elder
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
989
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
36
Location
Oxford, England and York, England
Btw, a Saint who said he did not fear God any longer, might perhaps simply have a more complete and scrupulous insight into his own faults - knowing that you deserve judgement can remove fear. I don't see it as being an arrogant statement.
 
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
349
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I just came across this thread, and having recently come across an article, I've decided to use this thread to vent my frustration on a certain website (sorry, I can't help it). Seeing that I have not found an Orthodox response to some of the blatant errors on this website, I've decided to share it:

http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles/The_Influential_Nature_of_Orthodoxy_Endangers_Christians.pdf

For example this is one of things that drives me crazy! Here is a quote:
Although Orthodoxy claims its origins from the first apostles, its actual start came after the Roman Emperor Constantine in the Fourth Century A.D. founded the state church for the empire.
I think if I see one more Constantine conspiracy theory, I'll morph into the Hulk. Sorry for being ranty, but for some odd reason I feel better knowing I'm not the only Orthodox Christian who is annoyed by these bad polemics.
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
3,397
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
41
People in general can be annoying. (Myself included.) Why pick on just one group?
 

mathetes

Sr. Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
161
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
CSRA
Liz said:
Btw, a Saint who said he did not fear God any longer, might perhaps simply have a more complete and scrupulous insight into his own faults - knowing that you deserve judgement can remove fear. I don't see it as being an arrogant statement.
Liz, thanks for your kind responses.  Because of an out-of-town business trip, I must be away from my home PC till Sept. 16.  Lord willing, I'll check back then.
 
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
227
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Am I annoyed by evangelists?

Short answer: No.

More detailed answer: My mother and her family were born and raised in the Philippines and were ministered to by American Protestant missionaries. Mother always spoke of them in the most positive light, because truly without them she (and probably I) would be worse off than we are now. I believe, having had the opportunity to meet some of them, that they worked out of a genuine fear of the Lord and a genuine love for people.

Fast Forward to March 2009

I was in an anime convention (because I am a nerd) and I saw a group of "evangelists" who were holding provocative signs such as "Turn to Jesus or Burn in Hell." It was clear to me that they were not simply interested in spreading the Gospel but breathing down the necks of "unChristian looking" people. I tried to rebuke them using Scripture but they accused me of not knowing Scripture. Those idiots.



What also annoys me is the assumption by many Protestants that Catholics and Orthodox follow a dead traditionalism that isn't genuine. I wonder then why people like Francis Beckwith or Peter Gillquist turn in their genuine faith for "dead traditionalism."
 

GammaRay

High Elder
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
574
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
28
Location
Greece
Super Apostolic Bros. said:
My mother and her family were born and raised in the Philippines and were ministered to by American Protestant missionaries. Mother always spoke of them in the most positive light, because truly without them she (and probably I) would be worse off than we are now. I believe, having had the opportunity to meet some of them, that they worked out of a genuine fear of the Lord and a genuine love for people.
I'm not annoyed by good people either. :)

I was in an anime convention (because I am a nerd) and I saw a group of "evangelists" who were holding provocative signs such as "Turn to Jesus or Burn in Hell." It was clear to me that they were not simply interested in spreading the Gospel but breathing down the necks of "unChristian looking" people. I tried to rebuke them using Scripture but they accused me of not knowing Scripture. Those idiots.
Lol, I'd love to see that. :D
 

Asteriktos

Strategos
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Messages
39,504
Reaction score
265
Points
83
Age
41
I like watching the evangelists on TV. It's interesting to see how different people believe radically different things, sometimes even based on the same information. The only ones who annoy me are the ones that bilk people out of their money, claiming cures and miracles and blessings in exchange for "love offerings".
 

Alveus Lacuna

Taxiarches
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
7,416
Reaction score
3
Points
0
Location
Missouri, USA
Asteriktos said:
I like watching the evangelists on TV. It's interesting to see how different people believe radically different things, sometimes even based on the same information. The only ones who annoy me are the ones that bilk people out of their money, claiming cures and miracles and blessings in exchange for "love offerings".
Sow that seed!
 
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
227
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Asteriktos said:
I like watching the evangelists on TV. It's interesting to see how different people believe radically different things, sometimes even based on the same information. The only ones who annoy me are the ones that bilk people out of their money, claiming cures and miracles and blessings in exchange for "love offerings".
Modern day disciples of Simon the Sorcerer, though in reverse.
 

BTRAKAS

Archon
Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
3,159
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
67
Location
North Royalton, Ohio
No.  It's good to have fundamental Christians articulating the Gospel to this society, which so lacks Christian spirituality, even though they do not proclaim the fullness of the faith that Orthodoxy processes.
 

PeterTheAleut

Hypatos
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Messages
37,280
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
49
Location
Portland, Oregon
Basil 320 said:
No.  It's good to have fundamental Christians articulating the Gospel to this society, which so lacks Christian spirituality, even though they do not proclaim the fullness of the faith that Orthodoxy processes.
How does Orthodoxy process the faith? ???
 

SolEX01

Toumarches
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
13,827
Reaction score
15
Points
38
Location
Central Maryland
Website
www.goarch.org
PeterTheAleut said:
Basil 320 said:
No.  It's good to have fundamental Christians articulating the Gospel to this society, which so lacks Christian spirituality, even though they do not proclaim the fullness of the faith that Orthodoxy processes.
How does Orthodoxy process the faith? ???
Based on the context, I believe Basil intended to say possesses although he can clarify that himself.  :)
 

BTRAKAS

Archon
Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
3,159
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
67
Location
North Royalton, Ohio
Thank you SolEx01 for comprehending my error.  What you noted was my intention to have written.
 

Ortho_cat

Protokentarchos
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
5,392
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
38
Location
Wichita, KS
Gebre Menfes Kidus said:
Heorhij said:
Liz said:
I've encountered this attitude from plenty of people, ... asking me if I'm prepared to take Jesus Christ as my Personal Saviour? (Answer: No, I'm not so selfish as to pretend Christ is 'my Personal Saviour', and I suspect He is the Saviour whether I want Him to be or not).
Well said, Liz! :)
Well let's be careful here. While evangelicals pervert the concept of a personal relationship with Christ, the idea in itself is not unOrthodox. The point is that our relationship with Christ is not individualistic and exclusive; it is both personal and corporate, finding its expression and fulfillment in and through the Church.



Selam
I think that this exclusivity is highly emphasized today. The idea that one can "have a relationship" with Christ, the head of the body,  while having little or no involvement with the rest of the body is very un-Christian indeed.
 

Gebre Menfes Kidus

Merarches
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
10,800
Reaction score
9
Points
0
Age
52
Location
Jackson, MS
Website
www.facebook.com
I used to soak up evangelical preaching and teaching on the radio. I loved to listen to R.C. Sproul, J. Vernon McGhee, Charles Stanley, Chuck Swindoll, John MacArthur, David Jeremiah, and others. When I first became Orthodox, I still listened to these people for a while. But I soon realized that I would never understand Orthodoxy unless I "de-programmed" myself from evangelical errors.

By the grace of God, I have met Orthodox friends online who have generously sent me CD's of Orthodox sermons and Liturgies. These resources have been a real blessing to me.


Selam 
 

Papist

Toumarches
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
13,771
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
39
Location
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Gebre Menfes Kidus said:
I used to soak up evangelical preaching and teaching on the radio. I loved to listen to R.C. Sproul, J. Vernon McGhee, Charles Stanley, Chuck Swindoll, John MacArthur, David Jeremiah, and others. When I first became Orthodox, I still listened to these people for a while. But I soon realized that I would never understand Orthodoxy unless I "de-programmed" myself from evangelical errors.

By the grace of God, I have met Orthodox friends online who have generously sent me CD's of Orthodox sermons and Liturgies. These resources have been a real blessing to me.


Selam 
I think that R.C. Sproul is one fo the most intelligent of these men.
 

sprtslvr1973

High Elder
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
749
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
47
Location
Atlanta
Super Apostolic Bros. said:
I wonder then why people like Francis Beckwith or Peter Gillquist turn in their genuine faith for "dead traditionalism."
Don't you know that those guys could not have been Christians in the first place  ::)
 

JamesR

Taxiarches
Joined
Nov 4, 2011
Messages
6,924
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
24
Location
The Underground
Depends on the preacher. Some of them are genuinely faithful and honestly just ignorant of the Truth, these ones I don't really mind and they usually actually enjoy dialogue with the Orthodox. I met a guy like this at the mall once--some old veteran who was preaching. I told him about Orthodoxy and he accepted what I said. But then you have others that are ignorant out of malice, think everyone else is going to western Hell and hate anything RC/EO.
 

PeterTheAleut

Hypatos
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Messages
37,280
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
49
Location
Portland, Oregon
JamesR said:
Depends on the preacher. Some of them are genuinely faithful and honestly just ignorant of the Truth, these ones I don't really mind and they usually actually enjoy dialogue with the Orthodox. I met a guy like this at the mall once--some old veteran who was preaching. I told him about Orthodoxy and he accepted what I said. But then you have others that are ignorant out of malice, think everyone else is going to western Hell and hate anything RC/EO.
To the OP: I'm annoyed by posters who resurrect threads only to say essentially nothing new. ::)
 

trevor72694

Archon
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
2,456
Reaction score
7
Points
38
Age
26
Location
Colorado, USA
PeterTheAleut said:
JamesR said:
Depends on the preacher. Some of them are genuinely faithful and honestly just ignorant of the Truth, these ones I don't really mind and they usually actually enjoy dialogue with the Orthodox. I met a guy like this at the mall once--some old veteran who was preaching. I told him about Orthodoxy and he accepted what I said. But then you have others that are ignorant out of malice, think everyone else is going to western Hell and hate anything RC/EO.
To the OP: I'm annoyed by posters who resurrect threads only to say essentially nothing new. ::)
+1
 

biro

Protostrator
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
23,388
Reaction score
113
Points
63
Age
47
Website
archiveofourown.org
PeterTheAleut said:
JamesR said:
Depends on the preacher. Some of them are genuinely faithful and honestly just ignorant of the Truth, these ones I don't really mind and they usually actually enjoy dialogue with the Orthodox. I met a guy like this at the mall once--some old veteran who was preaching. I told him about Orthodoxy and he accepted what I said. But then you have others that are ignorant out of malice, think everyone else is going to western Hell and hate anything RC/EO.
To the OP: I'm annoyed by posters who resurrect threads only to say essentially nothing new. ::)
This!
 

PeterTheAleut

Hypatos
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Messages
37,280
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
49
Location
Portland, Oregon
Doubting Thomas said:
Oh my--there's a lot of thread ressurrection going on in these here parts.  8)
Yes, the Creed says "I look for the resurrection of the dead," not the resurrection of the thread. :laugh:
 

Doubting Thomas

High Elder
Joined
Jul 17, 2003
Messages
887
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
49
Location
Georgia
PeterTheAleut said:
Doubting Thomas said:
Oh my--there's a lot of thread ressurrection going on in these here parts.  8)
Yes, the Creed says "I look for the resurrection of the dead," not the resurrection of the thread. :laugh:
HA, HA!!!  :D
 

Monk Vasyl

High Elder
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Messages
623
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
69
Location
Boston
Website
www.ukrainianorthodox.org
Doubting Thomas said:
PeterTheAleut said:
Doubting Thomas said:
Oh my--there's a lot of thread ressurrection going on in these here parts.  8)
Yes, the Creed says "I look for the resurrection of the dead," not the resurrection of the thread. :laugh:
HA, HA!!!  :D
LOL, I needed a good laugh.
 

Eastern Mind

High Elder
Joined
Sep 9, 2011
Messages
721
Reaction score
0
Points
0
PeterTheAleut said:
Doubting Thomas said:
Oh my--there's a lot of thread ressurrection going on in these here parts.  8)
Yes, the Creed says "I look for the resurrection of the dead," not the resurrection of the thread. :laugh:
Ah that's awesome!  :laugh:
 
Top