Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

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JamesR

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Simba was raised by two men and he turned out just fine, becoming the new king of the jungle.
 

That person

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Michał Kalina said:
yeshuaisiam said:
There are A LOT of Christians that need to read the scriptures.

This is not a subject that should be debated.

God called Men who lay with Men an ABOMINATION.
God called Women who lay with Woman an ABOMINATION.

Not just sinful, but abominable!!!

Do you want somebody who has such a distraught and messed up family, who loves their own sex, will not engage in normal relations as God created us, to be the role model for your son or sons?

Us Christians DO NOT JUDGE homosexual behavior, GOD already did.  When we call homosexual behavior an abomination, we are only repeating what God called it.

No Christian should want their sons role models / mentors / troop leaders to be homosexuals.  End of story.

Scriptures say nothing about lesbians, do they?
Romans 1:26 seems to. Doesn't use the word "abomination" though. I did know one guy who thought, based on the Bible's general silence, that male homosexuality was wrong, but not female. I'm pretty sure he wanted to justify his girl-on-girl porn consumption. I can't say I'm unsympathetic.
 

Deep Roots

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That person said:
I did know one guy who thought, based on the Bible's general silence, that male homosexuality was wrong, but not female.
I had a student last semester in my Freshman Composition class make the same argument.  He is Muslim and it was great fun getting him to see the hypocrisy.
 

Deacon Lance

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orthonorm said:
And what age is one typically a Boy Scout? Ain't you too old to be the victim of pedophilia by that time?
11-17. Depends if the boy is prepubescent, but hebephilia and ephebophilia are illegal also.  I agree with you that a pedophile is just as likely to be heterosexual as homosexual, if not more likely.
 

Deacon Lance

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ilyazhito said:
I would withdraw from Boy Scouts if gays were allowed, because I would not want to be exposed to potential or actual pedophiles. Also, homosexuality would violate the "morally straight" provision on the scout oath. It would prevent a Scout from being reverent, because certain religions, such as Orthodox Christianity, do not accept homosexuality as a normal way of life. Accepting gays as Scouts implies accepting the gay way as normal, at least for Scouting.
The local charter organization has final say on who leaders are.  So even if National drops its policy, a troop owned by a  Catholic or Orthodox parish will be able to refuse membership to homosexuals.  What is also going unreported is churches with no opposition to homosexuals, like Unitarians  and Episcopals, already allow homosexuals in.
 

PeterTheAleut

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ilyazhito said:
I would withdraw from Boy Scouts if gays were allowed, because I would not want to be exposed to potential or actual pedophiles.
Oy! That canard again. ::) What connection has ever been shown between homosexuality and pedophilia? Or have you so soon forgotten that the Boy Scouts have had a major problem with pedophilia even in spite of their ban on gays?

ilyazhito said:
Also, homosexuality would violate the "morally straight" provision on the scout oath. It would prevent a Scout from being reverent, because certain religions, such as Orthodox Christianity, do not accept homosexuality as a normal way of life. Accepting gays as Scouts implies accepting the gay way as normal, at least for Scouting.
I can agree with this, though.
 

montalo

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I've thought this one long as through, and as an Eagle and now Assistant Scoutmaster with now 14+ years in the Scouting movement, and what is comes down to for me is this.

The BSA needs to think if allowing gays into scouting would contradict with the "morally straight" aspect of the Scout Law. They need to act and choose based on what they view to be the right course of action, whatever it is. I will respect the BSA with whatever choice they make, as long as they are doing what they view to be the correct choice of action, and I will support thm with either choice they make.

HOWEVER, if they fold, and give in based on outside pressure and money, then my respect will go down for the BSA, as it is not the same organization as i joined in my youth, earned my eagle in, and am currently a volunteer in.


Big picture, regardless of their decision, the BSA is a good orginzation to support and be a part of, but if they fold, give up on their morals and duty to do what is right, then the orgiznation i know is gone.
 

Ioannis Climacus

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orthonorm said:
Αριστοκλής said:
orthonorm said:
Rainbowiness, intentional . . .
Coming out?

Your avatar might lead one to think so.  ;)
Out as what? What is that third thing?

That image cracked me up. I saw this whole tri-sexual symbol and it looked some graphic expression of modalism.

Hence it and the words beneath.

The rainbowage was pure plus on the image search.
Your avatar made a cameo on that schema-monk hoodie that's been going around :
 

PJ

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ilyazhito said:
I would withdraw from Boy Scouts if gays were allowed, because I would not want to be exposed to potential or actual pedophiles. Also, homosexuality would violate the "morally straight" provision on the scout oath. It would prevent a Scout from being reverent, because certain religions, such as Orthodox Christianity, do not accept homosexuality as a normal way of life. Accepting gays as Scouts implies accepting the gay way as normal, at least for Scouting.
Do you mean, because those "certain religions" happen to be right?
 

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yeshuaisiam said:
There are A LOT of Christians that need to read the scriptures.

This is not a subject that should be debated.

God called Men who lay with Men an ABOMINATION.
God called Women who lay with Woman an ABOMINATION.

Not just sinful, but abominable!!!

Do you want somebody who has such a distraught and messed up family, who loves their own sex, will not engage in normal relations as God created us, to be the role model for your son or sons?

Us Christians DO NOT JUDGE homosexual behavior, GOD already did.  When we call homosexual behavior an abomination, we are only repeating what God called it.

No Christian should want their sons role models / mentors / troop leaders to be homosexuals.  End of story.
It is a sin.

But I guess the question to you should be: Do you believe that people who commit that sin should be put to death?
 

orthonorm

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Ioannis Climacus said:
orthonorm said:
Αριστοκλής said:
orthonorm said:
Rainbowiness, intentional . . .
Coming out?

Your avatar might lead one to think so.  ;)
Out as what? What is that third thing?

That image cracked me up. I saw this whole tri-sexual symbol and it looked some graphic expression of modalism.

Hence it and the words beneath.

The rainbowage was pure plus on the image search.
Your avatar made a cameo on that schema-monk hoodie that's been going around :
As it has been said before: I am the height of teen-age fashion.
 

Kerdy

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Peter J said:
yeshuaisiam said:
There are A LOT of Christians that need to read the scriptures.

This is not a subject that should be debated.

God called Men who lay with Men an ABOMINATION.
God called Women who lay with Woman an ABOMINATION.

Not just sinful, but abominable!!!

Do you want somebody who has such a distraught and messed up family, who loves their own sex, will not engage in normal relations as God created us, to be the role model for your son or sons?

Us Christians DO NOT JUDGE homosexual behavior, GOD already did.  When we call homosexual behavior an abomination, we are only repeating what God called it.

No Christian should want their sons role models / mentors / troop leaders to be homosexuals.  End of story.
It is a sin.

But I guess the question to you should be: Do you believe that people who commit that sin should be put to death?
No, this isn’t the question at all.  Not even remotely close to the question.  The question is, should be allowed openly in the BSA.  Nice diversion tactic, but it was unsuccessful. 
 

yeshuaisiam

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Michał Kalina said:
yeshuaisiam said:
There are A LOT of Christians that need to read the scriptures.

This is not a subject that should be debated.

God called Men who lay with Men an ABOMINATION.
God called Women who lay with Woman an ABOMINATION.

Not just sinful, but abominable!!!

Do you want somebody who has such a distraught and messed up family, who loves their own sex, will not engage in normal relations as God created us, to be the role model for your son or sons?

Us Christians DO NOT JUDGE homosexual behavior, GOD already did.  When we call homosexual behavior an abomination, we are only repeating what God called it.

No Christian should want their sons role models / mentors / troop leaders to be homosexuals.  End of story.

Scriptures say nothing about lesbians, do they?
Yes

Romans 1:26-27

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

"vile affections"

 

yeshuaisiam

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orthonorm said:
yeshuaisiam said:
There are A LOT of Christians that need to read the scriptures.

This is not a subject that should be debated.

God called Men who lay with Men an ABOMINATION.
God called Women who lay with Woman an ABOMINATION.

Not just sinful, but abominable!!!
Hey, it is called the abominable snowman but really, what are you going to do when he looks like this?














Rainbowiness, intentional . . .
Hah,

Well it is a man with a pink flower in his hat.... so....
 

yeshuaisiam

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PeterTheAleut said:
yeshuaisiam said:
There are A LOT of Christians that need to read the scriptures.

This is not a subject that should be debated.

God called Men who lay with Men an ABOMINATION.
God called Women who lay with Woman an ABOMINATION.
Do you eat oysters?
No, I keep Kosher.

However,

Romans 1:26
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

In the New Covenant they were called "vile affections" and "against nature".
 

Jetavan

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yeshuaisiam said:
Michał Kalina said:
yeshuaisiam said:
There are A LOT of Christians that need to read the scriptures.

This is not a subject that should be debated.

God called Men who lay with Men an ABOMINATION.
God called Women who lay with Woman an ABOMINATION.

Not just sinful, but abominable!!!

Do you want somebody who has such a distraught and messed up family, who loves their own sex, will not engage in normal relations as God created us, to be the role model for your son or sons?

Us Christians DO NOT JUDGE homosexual behavior, GOD already did.  When we call homosexual behavior an abomination, we are only repeating what God called it.

No Christian should want their sons role models / mentors / troop leaders to be homosexuals.  End of story.

Scriptures say nothing about lesbians, do they?
Yes

Romans 1:26-27

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

"vile affections"
I wonder. Did Paul have any notion of people who are 'born' with same-sex attractions? He seems to be criticizing here, people -- heterosexual -- whose extreme lust has taken them into 'vile affections', not people whose normal state of attraction is directed towards those of the same sex.
 

yeshuaisiam

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Peter J said:
yeshuaisiam said:
There are A LOT of Christians that need to read the scriptures.

This is not a subject that should be debated.

God called Men who lay with Men an ABOMINATION.
God called Women who lay with Woman an ABOMINATION.

Not just sinful, but abominable!!!

Do you want somebody who has such a distraught and messed up family, who loves their own sex, will not engage in normal relations as God created us, to be the role model for your son or sons?

Us Christians DO NOT JUDGE homosexual behavior, GOD already did.  When we call homosexual behavior an abomination, we are only repeating what God called it.

No Christian should want their sons role models / mentors / troop leaders to be homosexuals.  End of story.
It is a sin.

But I guess the question to you should be: Do you believe that people who commit that sin should be put to death?
No.

I believe that the New Covenant Christ taught us (by example the adulterous woman) that we should not cast stones at her.  He said 'go now and sin no more' to her.

Now, if a gay person were to repent of their sin and not practice it, okay the doors are open as we all struggle.   But they won't.  They want to be accepted and for us to accept their sin & them living in their sin.
 

yeshuaisiam

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Jetavan said:
yeshuaisiam said:
Michał Kalina said:
yeshuaisiam said:
There are A LOT of Christians that need to read the scriptures.

This is not a subject that should be debated.

God called Men who lay with Men an ABOMINATION.
God called Women who lay with Woman an ABOMINATION.

Not just sinful, but abominable!!!

Do you want somebody who has such a distraught and messed up family, who loves their own sex, will not engage in normal relations as God created us, to be the role model for your son or sons?

Us Christians DO NOT JUDGE homosexual behavior, GOD already did.  When we call homosexual behavior an abomination, we are only repeating what God called it.

No Christian should want their sons role models / mentors / troop leaders to be homosexuals.  End of story.

Scriptures say nothing about lesbians, do they?
Yes

Romans 1:26-27

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

"vile affections"
I wonder. Did Paul have any notion of people who are 'born' with same-sex attractions? He seems to be criticizing here, people -- heterosexual -- whose extreme lust has taken them into 'vile affections', not people whose normal state of attraction is directed towards those of the same sex.
We were all born with weaknesses to certain sins.  One of mine is anger.

Also your question has been debated before (or the subject matter) by many Christian groups.  Many say that "born gay" is propaganda of our modern evil culture.  Many gay men were sexually abused.  Anyway, it's a sin period.  I can't buy into Lady Gaga's "born this way" mouthpiece song for acceptance.
 
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