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Burger King

Cyrillic

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Alright, this is a weird request.

Does anyone happen to know what Burger King is in CS?
 

Cyrillic

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цѣсар҄ь is king, apparently.

Does anyone know what 'of citizens' or 'civilian' in CS and how it can be made gramatically compatible with king?
 

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Just wondering if you mean 'burgher' rather than 'burger', not that I know either in CS.
 

Cyrillic

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Does someone know whether this is correct?



Luke 15:15 is:



Should the τω be added?

How do I pronounce it?
 

Dominika

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King is "car", just see e.g in this psalm (the first line):
http://azbyka.ru/bogosluzhenie/psalm/psalm_ucs.shtml#ps20

A citizen can be житель, however for citizens is rather this word used живyщіи both in the Bible and prayers, some examples in different grammatic forms:
http://azbyka.ru/biblia/?Joel.1&ucs (1:2)
http://azbyka.ru/biblia/?Is.9&ucs (9:1)
http://azbyka.ru/biblia/?Judg.1&ucs (1:11)
http://azbyka.ru/biblia/?Act.2&ucs (2:9)
http://azbyka.ru/biblia/?Is.24&ucs (24:5) - that's the form you're interested in

So, it's цaрь живyщихъ (you'll find in the links the proper letters forms with the accent)
 

Dominika

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Cyrillic said:
Thanks! Awesome!

Do you know how to pronounce it?
Yeah, sure:
Tsar zhivushchih (the letters in black are stressed)
 

vamrat

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Since Burger is a loanword from German, and Church Slavonic seems to have no problem with loanwords, couldn't you just Cyrillify the German word? 
 

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I'm sorry to disappoint the geeks, but just google "burger king russia" and you'll see what they use....which will likely disappoint you.






























Hint:  phonetically the same as in English.
 

vamrat

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Cyrillic said:
The correct characters:

Gospodi should just mean "Lord".  The little eyebrow thingey with a c(s) under it is an abbreviation marker.  I'm not really sure how to say "King" in Russian or Slavonic as "Tsar" is probably better used as Emperor (Tsar = Caesar) and Kniaz is equivalent to Prince (Princeps rather than "King's son").

That's my understanding, and it is possibly flawed.
 

Dominika

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Cyrillic said:
The correct characters:

Noo, 1. Gospod is "Lord". 2. Gospodi is vocative form
As I said", "tsar" is used also for "king", not only for "emperor" or "caesar". "Tsar" is used for the "king David", "The Book of Kings", "King of the Jews" etc.
 

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Dominika said:
Cyrillic said:
The correct characters:

Noo, 1. Gospod is "Lord". 2. Gospodi is vocative form
As I said", "tsar" is used also for "king", not only for "emperor" or "caesar". "Tsar" is used for the "king David", "The Book of Kings", "King of the Jews" etc.
Is my pic wrong or are you referring to vamrat's comment?
 

Dominika

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Cyrillic said:
Dominika said:
Cyrillic said:
The correct characters:

Noo, 1. Gospod is "Lord". 2. Gospodi is vocative form
As I said", "tsar" is used also for "king", not only for "emperor" or "caesar". "Tsar" is used for the "king David", "The Book of Kings", "King of the Jews" etc.
Is my pic wrong or are you referring to vamrat's comment?
Both.
 

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Dominika said:
Cyrillic said:
Dominika said:
Cyrillic said:
The correct characters:

Noo, 1. Gospod is "Lord". 2. Gospodi is vocative form
As I said", "tsar" is used also for "king", not only for "emperor" or "caesar". "Tsar" is used for the "king David", "The Book of Kings", "King of the Jews" etc.
Is my pic wrong or are you referring to vamrat's comment?
Both.
Is цaрь the good one?
 

Dominika

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Cyrillic said:
Dominika said:
Cyrillic said:
Dominika said:
Cyrillic said:
The correct characters:

Noo, 1. Gospod is "Lord". 2. Gospodi is vocative form
As I said", "tsar" is used also for "king", not only for "emperor" or "caesar". "Tsar" is used for the "king David", "The Book of Kings", "King of the Jews" etc.
Is my pic wrong or are you referring to vamrat's comment?
Both.
Is цaрь the good one?
Yes
 

Cyrillic

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Dominika said:
Cyrillic said:
Dominika said:
Cyrillic said:
Dominika said:
Cyrillic said:
The correct characters:

Noo, 1. Gospod is "Lord". 2. Gospodi is vocative form
As I said", "tsar" is used also for "king", not only for "emperor" or "caesar". "Tsar" is used for the "king David", "The Book of Kings", "King of the Jews" etc.
Is my pic wrong or are you referring to vamrat's comment?
Both.
Is цaрь the good one?
Yes
Ah, thank you. The other word is correct?
 

Dominika

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^^ Yes. However, " живyщихъ" means also "being alive".
There is also word жител­ст­во meaning "citizenship", "society".
Tomorrow I have Church Slavonic class at my parish, so I can ask our proffessor if he suggested other word
 

Cyrillic

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Dominika said:
^^ Yes. However, " живyщихъ" means also "being alive".
There is also word жител­ст­во meaning "citizenship", "society".
Interesting stuff!

Dominika said:
Tomorrow I have Church Slavonic class at my parish, so I can ask our proffessor if he suggested other word
I'm jealous.
 

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Dominika said:
As I said", "tsar" is used also for "king", not only for "emperor" or "caesar". "Tsar" is used for the "king David", "The Book of Kings", "King of the Jews" etc.
"Tsar" was really only ever applied to Orthodox, Biblical, and some ancient monarchs, as well as the khans of the Golden Horde. Outside that, I think that generally a more apt translation of "king" would be some descendant of the Proto-Slavic "korljь" (such as the Russian "Korol" or the Serbo-Croatian "Kralj").
 

Dominika

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Cyrillic said:
Dominika said:
Tomorrow I have Church Slavonic class at my parish, so I can ask our proffessor if he suggested other word
I'm jealous.
Imagine, it's for free, in the evening (so everybody can come), and only about 10 people attend it from the whole Warsaw (in which there are a few Orthodox parishes) and among the participants there is one Catholic. And the professor is one of the best in Poland regarding the knowledge about Church Slavonic (he's always one of the editors of the liturgical books published by Polish Orthodox Church, both in CS and Polish)
 

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Dominika said:
Cyrillic said:
Dominika said:
Tomorrow I have Church Slavonic class at my parish, so I can ask our proffessor if he suggested other word
I'm jealous.
Imagine, it's for free, in the evening (so everybody can come), and only about 10 people attend it from the whole Warsaw (in which there are a few Orthodox parishes) and among the participants there is one Catholic. And the professor is one of the best in Poland regarding the knowledge about Church Slavonic (he's always one of the editors of the liturgical books published by Polish Orthodox Church, both in CS and Polish)
How very sad to let such a chance go.
 

Dominika

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Cyrillic said:
Dominika said:
Cyrillic said:
Dominika said:
Tomorrow I have Church Slavonic class at my parish, so I can ask our proffessor if he suggested other word
I'm jealous.
Imagine, it's for free, in the evening (so everybody can come), and only about 10 people attend it from the whole Warsaw (in which there are a few Orthodox parishes) and among the participants there is one Catholic. And the professor is one of the best in Poland regarding the knowledge about Church Slavonic (he's always one of the editors of the liturgical books published by Polish Orthodox Church, both in CS and Polish)
How very sad to let such a chance go.
Yeah, exactly :( But then people have an excuse that they don't understand Church services. As far I know, in Białystok (a city in Poland that maybe in 1/4 is inhabited by Orthodox people) the situation looks similar: there are also free Church Slavonic classes in one or two parishes and the attendaces in on the same level.
But, well, people after religion classes at school/parish at least know how to read the letters and some prayers
 

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Dominika said:
Cyrillic said:
The correct characters:

Noo, 1. Gospod is "Lord". 2. Gospodi is vocative form
As I said", "tsar" is used also for "king", not only for "emperor" or "caesar". "Tsar" is used for the "king David", "The Book of Kings", "King of the Jews" etc.
I took a Church Slavonic independent study in College, but that was many years ago, so I will defer to your more recent study!  ;D

Come to think of it, I do believe I have seen Tsar used on Icons e.g. "Tsar of the Jews". 

We use a lot of Slavonic in our Liturgy at Church, though my prayer book is written using the Serbian Cyrillic letters (i.e. there are J's and that combination L+soft sign, etc). 
 

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While «цáрь живу́щихъ» is technically correct as a translation of "king of citizens" (literally, "king of those who live"), I think a better word would be «гражда́нских» (grazhdanskikh), especially if you're trying to approximate "burgher." Though in modern parlance, «граждани́н» (grazhdanin) can denote any sort of citizen, the word is actually derived from the root for "town" and in medieval practice, at least in Novgorod and other Russian republics, it was used specifically to refer to townspeople.

Thus, a "king of citizens" would be «цáрь гражда́нских» while a "citizen king" would be «гражда́нскiй цáрь» (grazhdanskiy) or the other way around, if that's how you like it. Of course, I was only ever taught to read Church Slavonic, not to understand it, so take this with a grain of salt.
 

Dominika

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Hawkeye said:
While «цáрь живу́щихъ» is technically correct as a translation of "king of citizens" (literally, "king of those who live"), I think a better word would be «гражда́нских» (grazhdanskikh), especially if you're trying to approximate "burgher." Though in modern parlance, «граждани́н» (grazhdanin) can denote any sort of citizen, the word is actually derived from the root for "town" and in medieval practice, at least in Novgorod and other Russian republics, it was used specifically to refer to townspeople.

Thus, a "king of citizens" would be «цáрь гражда́нских» while a "citizen king" would be «гражда́нскiй цáрь» (grazhdanskiy) or the other way around, if that's how you like it. Of course, I was only ever taught to read Church Slavonic, not to understand it, so take this with a grain of salt.
Indeed, there is a word граждани́н, meaning a person living in a city (only! so it can't be used for the people living in a village or in a conutry-state). гражда́нских it's adjective in plural, so it doesn't mean "king of citizens". гражда́нскiй цáрь means "city king" (city in adjective form)
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
Can we please get an official CS rendering of "Burger King" in CS (not transliterated)?  I have never been more excited to get a tattoo...

;D

 

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Dominika said:
Indeed, there is a word граждани́н, meaning a person living in a city (only! so it can't be used for the people living in a village or in a conutry-state).
Its meaning likely varied from place to place. For example, the Russians had to invent a new word for a city-person («горожа́нин») when «граждани́н» came to have too broad of a meaning.

Dominika said:
гражда́нских it's adjective in plural, so it doesn't mean "king of citizens".
Well, it depends on how broad of a definition you accept. With your narrower one, «цáрь гражда́нских» does mean "king of city-people," which is no issue if our goal is to translate "burgher."

Dominika said:
гражда́нскiй цáрь means "city king" (city in adjective form)
That is, a king who is also a citizen of a city.
 

Mor Ephrem

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WAIT! 

We're talking about "burgher", as in "someone from an autonomous corporate entity in Scotland and Northern England", and not "burger" as in "the best food ever"? 
 

DeniseDenise

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Mor Ephrem said:
WAIT! 

We're talking about "burgher", as in "someone from an autonomous corporate entity in Scotland and Northern England", and not "burger" as in "the best food ever"?

Sadly yes.



The other would be Kotleti in Russian...don't know about CS
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
WAIT! 

We're talking about "burgher", as in "someone from an autonomous corporate entity in Scotland and Northern England", and not "burger" as in "the best food ever"?
Hamburger comes from the German Hamburger - a burgher (burger) of Hamburg. Thus burgher and burger are etymologically the same.
 
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