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Calvinism, Slavery, Tangents, and You!

Iconodule

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I think Hinterlander is simply referring to Kuyper's model of church-society relations, leaving aside the problems inherent to Calvinist theology. Is there something in there that Orthodox can learn from? Do we have our own robust answer to the same question, after our empires have disappeared?

I know very little about Kuyper myself, apart from the rather evil exemplar of his views embodied in apartheid. Whether that was a misapplication of his views or not, I don't know.
 

WPM

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Cowgazing is when you see cows on the side of the road ... (Or driving) Doesn't mean your bovine.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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Iconodule said:
I think Hinterlander is simply referring to Kuyper's model of church-society relations, leaving aside the problems inherent to Calvinist theology. Is there something in there that Orthodox can learn from? Do we have our own robust answer to the same question, after our empires have disappeared?
I don't think Kuyper's model of church-state relations can be understood apart from the theological poison of Calvinism, and as such, it could never work for Orthodox Christians.  Calvinism undergirded everything Kuyper did or thought.  Whatever our church-state model in the modern era might be, it shouldn't be devised drawing upon Calvinist models.

Iconodule said:
I know very little about Kuyper myself, apart from the rather evil exemplar of his views embodied in apartheid. Whether that was a misapplication of his views or not, I don't know.
In all fairness to Kuyper, I think it was a misapplication.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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WPM said:
Cowgazing is when you see cows on the side of the road ... (Or driving) Doesn't mean your bovine.
Welcome home, WPM.  You'll feel right at home in this thread.  :)
 

Hinterlander

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I appreciate the measured responses to my Kuyper name dropping.

By "engage" I mean seek to understand and critique. I am not a Calvinist (although was so into 20s), but even as I've inquired deeper into Orthodoxy I still see some of Kuyper's ideas - like sphere sovereignty - as relevant.

Perhaps I'm too steeped in the reactionary Netodox types to really see where Orthodox have explored what it means to live in the modern West.  Perhaps somewhere in the St. Sergius/Parisian Russian Emigre school there is something?
 

Asteriktos

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I wanted to write something in response, but I'm not sure if the things that I kept coming around to are helpful. For example, if someone asked for a recommendation of a book they could read about predestination and how orthodox writers have dealt with that doctrine, I'd suggest not an apologetic against Protestants, but rather the 3rd or 4th volume of Jaroslav Pelikan's work on Church History. In those books all sorts of ideas that became points of contention among Protestants (real presence, predestination, etc.) get discussed, and the reasons for the orthodox POV carrying the day among ancient and medieval fathers get quoted/referenced--albeit often as a story about whose interpretations of St. Augustine would become the norm. Anyway, while I don't know the fellow you had mentioned, I'd be willing to throw my 2 cents into any threads that get started on particular ideas.
 

RaphaCam

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The goal of psionic wave oscillations is to plant the seeds of being rather than dogma.

Consciousness consists of electromagnetic forces of quantum energy. “Quantum” means a flowering of the primordial. The dreamtime is aglow with molecular structures.

We exist as bio-feedback.

Have you found your vision quest? It can be difficult to know where to begin. If you have never experienced this network at the quantum level, it can be difficult to believe.

Although you may not realize it, you are ever-present. How should you navigate this perennial quantum matrix? Prophet, look within and unify yourself.

The solar system is calling to you via sonar energy. Can you hear it? Throughout history, humans have been interacting with the planet via four-dimensional superstructures. We are at a crossroads of complexity and stagnation.

The cosmos is approaching a tipping point.
Humankind has nothing to lose. Who are we? Where on the great story will we be reborn? Our conversations with other beings have led to an unveiling of hyper-perennial consciousness.

Today, science tells us that the essence of nature is guidance. Synchronicity is the healing of healing, and of us. This life is nothing short of a flowering reintegration of ethereal conscious living.
 

rakovsky

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RaphaCam said:
The goal of psionic wave oscillations is to plant the seeds of being rather than dogma.

Consciousness consists of electromagnetic forces of quantum energy. “Quantum” means a flowering of the primordial. The dreamtime is aglow with molecular structures.

We exist as bio-feedback.

Have you found your vision quest? It can be difficult to know where to begin. If you have never experienced this network at the quantum level, it can be difficult to believe.

Although you may not realize it, you are ever-present. How should you navigate this perennial quantum matrix? Prophet, look within and unify yourself.

The solar system is calling to you via sonar energy. Can you hear it? Throughout history, humans have been interacting with the planet via four-dimensional superstructures. We are at a crossroads of complexity and stagnation.

The cosmos is approaching a tipping point.
Humankind has nothing to lose. Who are we? Where on the great story will we be reborn? Our conversations with other beings have led to an unveiling of hyper-perennial consciousness.

Today, science tells us that the essence of nature is guidance. Synchronicity is the healing of healing, and of us. This life is nothing short of a flowering reintegration of ethereal conscious living.
Are these your own words?
 

RaphaCam

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rakovsky said:
RaphaCam said:
The goal of psionic wave oscillations is to plant the seeds of being rather than dogma.

Consciousness consists of electromagnetic forces of quantum energy. “Quantum” means a flowering of the primordial. The dreamtime is aglow with molecular structures.

We exist as bio-feedback.

Have you found your vision quest? It can be difficult to know where to begin. If you have never experienced this network at the quantum level, it can be difficult to believe.

Although you may not realize it, you are ever-present. How should you navigate this perennial quantum matrix? Prophet, look within and unify yourself.

The solar system is calling to you via sonar energy. Can you hear it? Throughout history, humans have been interacting with the planet via four-dimensional superstructures. We are at a crossroads of complexity and stagnation.

The cosmos is approaching a tipping point.
Humankind has nothing to lose. Who are we? Where on the great story will we be reborn? Our conversations with other beings have led to an unveiling of hyper-perennial consciousness.

Today, science tells us that the essence of nature is guidance. Synchronicity is the healing of healing, and of us. This life is nothing short of a flowering reintegration of ethereal conscious living.
Are these your own words?
No, I just got them from the New Age Bulls...t Generator.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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RaphaCam said:
The goal of psionic wave oscillations is to plant the seeds of being rather than dogma.

Consciousness consists of electromagnetic forces of quantum energy. “Quantum” means a flowering of the primordial. The dreamtime is aglow with molecular structures.

We exist as bio-feedback.

Have you found your vision quest? It can be difficult to know where to begin. If you have never experienced this network at the quantum level, it can be difficult to believe.

Although you may not realize it, you are ever-present. How should you navigate this perennial quantum matrix? Prophet, look within and unify yourself.

The solar system is calling to you via sonar energy. Can you hear it? Throughout history, humans have been interacting with the planet via four-dimensional superstructures. We are at a crossroads of complexity and stagnation.

The cosmos is approaching a tipping point.
Humankind has nothing to lose. Who are we? Where on the great story will we be reborn? Our conversations with other beings have led to an unveiling of hyper-perennial consciousness.

Today, science tells us that the essence of nature is guidance. Synchronicity is the healing of healing, and of us. This life is nothing short of a flowering reintegration of ethereal conscious living.
 

DeniseDenise

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RaphaCam said:
rakovsky said:
RaphaCam said:
The goal of psionic wave oscillations is to plant the seeds of being rather than dogma.

Consciousness consists of electromagnetic forces of quantum energy. “Quantum” means a flowering of the primordial. The dreamtime is aglow with molecular structures.

We exist as bio-feedback.

Have you found your vision quest? It can be difficult to know where to begin. If you have never experienced this network at the quantum level, it can be difficult to believe.

Although you may not realize it, you are ever-present. How should you navigate this perennial quantum matrix? Prophet, look within and unify yourself.

The solar system is calling to you via sonar energy. Can you hear it? Throughout history, humans have been interacting with the planet via four-dimensional superstructures. We are at a crossroads of complexity and stagnation.

The cosmos is approaching a tipping point.
Humankind has nothing to lose. Who are we? Where on the great story will we be reborn? Our conversations with other beings have led to an unveiling of hyper-perennial consciousness.

Today, science tells us that the essence of nature is guidance. Synchronicity is the healing of healing, and of us. This life is nothing short of a flowering reintegration of ethereal conscious living.
Are these your own words?
No, I just got them from the New Age Bulls...t Generator.

Odd.  Sounds like several Romanian posters over the years. 
 

Asteriktos

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rakovsky said:
That's so funny:
http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/
"This life is nothing short of a condensing canopy of interstellar joy."  :laugh:
 

WPM

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I don't have any more information.
 

HaydenTE

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Asteriktos said:
rakovsky said:
That's so funny:
http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/
"This life is nothing short of a condensing canopy of interstellar joy."  :laugh:
"Although you may not realize it, you are sentient."
 

rakovsky

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When I went to Greece on a tourist trip 2 decades ago, whenever we went into a chapel or church, the female tourist guide kissed the icon on the icon table in the forefront of the church sanctuary in front of the iconostasis. But from my memory, the typical EO practice in the OCA is just to cross oneself whenever one enters or exits a sanctuary, and just to venerate the central icon table when entering for a service. What is the real correct or normal practice in Orthodoxy, and does it differ between EOs in Greece, the US, and Russia?
 
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