catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion

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Anastasios

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Sparky said:
One more thing, I think I should explain the swansong rule.

Usually if someone posts a swansong, we take it as you don't want to be there anymore and you want to go, so we help you. (As...harsh as that may sound.) Usually those who post swansongs ARE trolls. Which is why I went and did what I did.

I will double check to see if you are still banned, but I do not believe you are since, as I said, the board settings changed. Either way, I will inform them that you may be posting. And, as I said, I'll let someone else moderate you.

The whole division of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches truly, truly truly saddens me. It does get me very upset emotionally. There are few things that do, and that is one of them. That combined with everything else probably hit me hard that day. That is why I will not remain here long, because there is little I can do to bridge that gap other than pray that it end.
Thank you for coming here to explain things from your pov.  I have always told people I think DCF does a great job and I think you going the extra mile is admirable.
 

Anastasios

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stashko said:
all these places are a scam and a good money maker for the catholic church...<img src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_3_15.gif" alt="SmileyCentral.com" border="0">
I believe Steve Ray (owner of DCF forum) spends about 10k a year of his own money on his site. While he does certainly make money off his videos, lectures, and books, the forum itself is a very expensive. I can vouch for that in that we don't make any money off this site for sure!
 

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Deacon Anastasios said:
I believe Steve Ray (owner of DCF forum) spends about 10k a year of his own money on his site. While he does certainly make money off his videos, lectures, and books, the forum itself is a very expensive. I can vouch for that in that we don't make any money off this site for sure!
Steve actually owns a regular staffing business, which is how he feeds his family. He does spend quite a bit on the site (I am not sure how much) and he does make something on the videos, etc., but he uses that money to produce more. His videos are quite nice, actually. Great history stuff on the Holy Land, etc. I've heard many Orthodox praise his work there. (shrug) Ah well, whatever.

Mickey...I was right, you aren't banned and you are free to post. I let the other mods know that I won't be modding you.

Thanks everyone. Pax vobiscum.
 

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Sparky said:
I will double check to see if you are still banned, but I do not believe you are since, as I said, the board settings changed. Either way, I will inform them that you may be posting. And, as I said, I'll let someone else moderate you.
I have been restored.
God bless you.

Sparky said:
That is why I will not remain here long, because there is little I can do to bridge that gap other than pray that it end.
I also pray daily for the end of the schism. God will heal that wound in His own time. However, I urge you to stick around--or at least lurk every now and again. You will learn that we are sincere and friendly people!  :D
 

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stashko said:
i never read this  forum and i never will.....
If you have never read the dialogue, nor visited the forum, you are just a character witness and don't know what actually transpired.

i could only take so much about hearing the pope preached more than christ or even the Holy Virgin preached more than Christ....and about their false satanic apparition ,fatima,lourds,sacred hearts,Divine mercy...medugorije,,,and other ones they flock too...and another one that was just recognized....they seek new Revelation's flock to them like moths to a flame,,and forget what the holy apostle recieved from Christ and given to our Holy Father's for our salvation....all these places are a scam and a good money maker for the catholic church...<img src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_3_15.gif" alt="SmileyCentral.com" border="0">
Your opinion of the Roman Catholic Church is well known on this site.  Please, when voicing your opinion, use a more charitable tone.  Many people view the Orthodox Church as cold, harsh and full of hatred because certain people choose to voice valid opinions but in a way that is consistantly seen as aggressive and intolerant.  Yet, when you visit an Orthodox Church and speak with a parish Priest and members of the parish, it is a warm, welcoming place.  Ridiculing people into submission will only lead to resentment and they will have little to no will to even step foot into an Orthodox parish, let alone seriously look into its beliefs and theology.  You don't have to subscribe to some distorted neo-ecumenical views to love your brothers and sisters and show them the utmost respect and charity, you only have to act Christian.

Deacon Anastasios said:
I believe Steve Ray (owner of DCF forum) spends about 10k a year of his own money on his site. While he does certainly make money off his videos, lectures, and books, the forum itself is a very expensive. I can vouch for that in that we don't make any money off this site for sure!
I believe he is refering to Roman Catholic pilgrimage sites, Father Deacon.
 

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stashko said:
and about their false satanic apparition
Stashko, my brother in Christ:

I have read many good and charitable posts from you--but this is not one of them. It is important to remain charitable. I know that you are very zealous for the Holy Orthodox faith, but you must not define yourself by negative comments directed at our brothers and sisters.

God bless you.

P.S--Sparky is a sister--and a fine author.  :)
 

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Friul said:
If you have never read the dialogue, nor visited the forum, you are just a character witness and don't know what actually transpired.

Your opinion of the Roman Catholic Church is well known on this site.  Please, when voicing your opinion, use a more charitable tone.  Many people view the Orthodox Church as cold, harsh and full of hatred because certain people choose to voice valid opinions but in a way that is consistantly seen as aggressive and intolerant.  Yet, when you visit an Orthodox Church and speak with a parish Priest and members of the parish, it is a warm, welcoming place.  Ridiculing people into submission will only lead to resentment and they will have little to no will to even step foot into an Orthodox parish, let alone seriously look into its beliefs and theology.  You don't have to subscribe to some distorted neo-ecumenical views to love your brothers and sisters and show them the utmost respect and charity, you only have to act Christian.

I believe he is refering to Roman Catholic pilgrimage sites, Father Deacon.
Brother ...i mentioned the things i read on caf..only ...which i don't and many orthodox don't agree on...pope,, apparition...doesn't  mean i hate catholic people ....i don't care for there church or there vatican...the people are fine ....<img src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_3_15.gif" alt="SmileyCentral.com" border="0">
 

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Hello Sparky, welcome to the forum,
Sparky said:
I don't know what their policy is on banning. Again, I'm not a moderator over there. The only thing I know is that there were many, many complaints made about Orthodox behavior, and apparently when the higher ups (namely the man Karl Keating or someone else on the main staff who pays good money to run that forum) finally looked, he/they pulled the plug, lock, stock and barrel.
I am not surprised, but I believe that you are imagining the situation to be quite different than it actually is.

I agree that there must have been complaints, especially from the financial supporters.  But their complaints would not have been about rudeness on our part (any more than any other groups rudeness (I think as a group we set a high bar overall), but the fact that the Latin Catholic church was not showing well. If they were kicking butt every day there would be no complaints.
Sparky said:
If your eye offends you pluck it out and all that.
This is really misapplied. What you are saying is "if that other persons eye offends you...pluck his eye out!
Sparky said:
Read their TOS. They don't have to give warning, as I understand it.
Granted.
Sparky said:
Well, you see...the goal should not be to bully or beat up on anyone. That is a lack of Christian charity, is it not? Who is the one who should be the better example of Christ's charity?

Is there really success in causing more division and hatred rather than charity? Really?
I have always felt the same way.  Too bad the archives have been locked, and possibly destoyed, you could see the lack of charity and where it originated. They keep the most mundane stuff archived there, like old political forums and such, but not this one.
Sparky said:
Think about it. The root of our divisions (all of them, Orthodox, Catholic, and even Protestant) is rooted in human pride, the deadliest of all sins. With the Protestants it is to make each individual their own pope. With the Orthodox, they have no humility and therefore "non servum" (that is my perception, for what it's worth, and I do not think it is far off the mark)....We are all guilty of it.  The goal should be to break that cycle, but since we are all rooted in ugly pride it will not happen.
I can agree, we are all guilty of pride. I don't agree with your assessment of the Orthodox, which is nothing but your preconceived notion based upon the flaweed assumption that the bishop of Rome should be as a modern Pope.

We as a group will, in fact, serve God's Will and do try as best as we know and are able. We understand primacy and authority in the church, it is operative at all levels. Historically we have never had anything like a modern Pope to reject out of pride. If we actually did have something like that, and refused to any longer "serve" him, I suppose you would have an argument.

But I was taught that the Pope was the "Servant of the Servants of God", is he not?
Sparky said:
With Rome a sense of intellectual and spiritual superiority.
In fact, it is arrogance, and a pride in the organization which is still (after all) composed of fallible human beings. And it is hamartia.
Sparky said:
Perhaps you're right. Perhaps you are better at debate and managed to convince some people to your argument. You won a few souls to your cause. Bully for you. But what did you really accomplish? A lot more hurt, a lot more pain, a lot more division in the Body of Christ.
Sparky said:
Since Catholic Answers is a Catholic organization whose goal is to defend the Catholic faith, I think converting Catholics to commit schism and therefore mortal sin would be upsetting to the board's owners, don't you think?
If this is what you think, then we are not very close to healing this rift. At one level (the "polite" level) we are your "sister" churches, and at another we are nothing but low-down dirty schismatics! While some Latin Catholics attempted to hold a balanced and informed position (something I respect even when I do not agree) others had malice in their hearts, looking to draw blood, equating us with protestants and heretics. Keen on disgracing both our beliefs (which are often shred by eastern Catholics) and our Holy Orthodox church, the Bride of Christ, itself.

Do you concur with Pope Boniface VIII when he states in Unam Sanctam:
[bgcolor=#f5ff00]"If, then, the Greeks or others say that they were not committed to the care of Peter and his successors, they necessarily confess that they are not of the sheep of Christ; for the Lord says, in John, that there is one fold, one shepherd, and one only.”[/bgcolor]

Do you agree with Pope Eugene IV when he states in Canate Domino that:
[bgcolor=#f5ff00] "It [the sacrosanct Roman Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart "into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" [/bgcolor]

Are you in agreement with Pius XI when he writes in Mortalium Animos:
[bgcolor=#f5ff00] “Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors. Did not the ancestors of those who are now entangled in the errors of Photius and the reformers obey the Bishop of Rome, the chief shepherd of souls? Alas their children left the home of their fathers, but it did not fall to the ground and perish for ever, for it was supported by God. Let them therefore return to their common Father, who, forgetting the insults previously heaped on the Apostolic See, will receive them in the most loving fashion. For if, as they continually state, they long to be united with Us and ours, why do they not hasten to enter the Church, “the Mother and mistress of all Christ’s faithful?” Let them hear Lactantius crying out: “The Catholic Church is alone in keeping the true worship. This is the fount of truth, this is the house of Faith, this is the temple of God: if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation. Let none delude himself with obstinate wrangling. For life and salvation are here concerned, which will be lost and entirely destroyed, unless their interests are carefully and assiduously kept in mind.”[/bgcolor]

Many of your like-minded coreligionists take these pronouncements to heart, and use that as justification to attack us. If anyone spreads misinformation about my Faith to their advantage, anywhere, I will not hesitate to try and correct these mistakes (and which are sometimes deliberate lies, or so it seems). If I am correct and all the readers can see that, and it results in some people choosing Holy Orthodoxy over your church, well then shame on those who brought this situation about, for they are to blame, not I.

I am just musing here, but the Lord works in mysterious ways, and perhaps he intended the polemical Latin Catholic posters to look so foolish...who can say? Perhaps this was a mechanism to open the eyes of some few honest and sincere inquirers. It's just a thought...
Sparky said:
It really is what I described above - you went in, ate their food, drank all their beer, then proceeded to turn the hosts' other visitors and family members against them.
That is something you are not able to speak about since by your own admission you did not participate.

What we did was defend Holy Orthodoxy when it came under attack from some people of your confession who in no way were interested in building up out mutual ties or reinforcing our common qualities, but were directly and seriously engaged in tearing down Holy Orthodoxy. Presenting misinformation, sometimes innocently, sometimes apparently not, and sometimes mixing their opinions in as fact. It is odd that they found it necessary to do this when they should be able to make their own church look pretty good without having to resort to putting Holy Orthodoxy down.

We defended our church by correcting poorly translated quotes and putting Patristic evidence in context. It was a simple idea really. But I won't take credit for that, others better knowledgeable and prepared than I were able to carry that through.

I have stated here (on this thread) before that the Latin Catholic posters generally relied on quote mines and other resources that they trusted, but which were seriously flawed when it comes to the eastern churches. These include but are not limited to the Old Catholic Encyclopedia and Catholic Answers very own polemical materials. Many of them were used to arguing the case with Protestants, and foolishly assumed that we were no better. So then, much energy was expended trying to box us in to their own narrow definitions as "rebels" and "heretics" to discredit our church, they failed.

Some tried to prove our church "started" at some point in Christian history instead of arising out of the Pentecost event, they failed.

It should be noted that a large percentage of those conversions were of LURKERS, not necessarily continually active participants. They had plenty of opportunities to read the evidence presented, and ask questions of the more active participants. They lurkers and inquirers also had plenty of opportunities to do their own independent research outside of CAF from sources of their own choosing! This, from my recollection, they were always encouraged to do.

All the Latin Catholics had to do was answer each question honestly, that should have been able to dominate any discussion if they presented Truth in their arguments and that true information had merit. But they did not or could not always be honest and when that happened the audience saw right through them. They should be ashamed of their poor performance in their own setting.
Sparky said:
Perhaps you're right. Perhaps you are better at debate and managed to convince some people to your argument. You won a few souls to your cause. Bully for you. But what did you really accomplish? A lot more hurt, a lot more pain, a lot more division in the Body of Christ.
Sparky said:
Congratulations! I'm sure our Lord is happy.
This sounds like a pretty sour comment.

"...schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart "into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels"
 

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Hesychios said:
All the Latin Catholics had to do was answer each question honestly, that should have been able to dominate any discussion if they presented Truth in their arguments and that true information had merit. But they did not or could not always be honest and when that happened the audience saw right through them.
Amen my brother!
 

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Joe Monahan said:
My suggestion would be that this thread quietly close in a day or two - not to preclude forever discussion of CAF - there will be, from time to time, some particularly outrageous event there that merits a new thread here. But, this thread has had its useful life; its mere existence should be a reminder to CAF for a long time to come that the choices they made were poor and wrong.
In the light of this, and after considerable discussion, the Administrators and Moderators have come to the consensus that the time has come to close this thread and maintain it as a "sticky" as a permanent record of the events. The thread will be closed one week from this post on Wednesday 18th June to allow those who wish to make final contributions to it to do so (please be aware though that forum rules still apply, and any posts which are irrelevant to the topic will be moved).  Remember that our mission here is not to dwell on the wrongs committed to us, but instead to participate in the blessed discussion that we were enriched by before these events took place.

Thank you,
The Admin/Mod Team
 

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ozgeorge said:
In the light of this, and after considerable discussion, the Administrators and Moderators have come to the consensus that the time has come to close this thread and maintain it as a "sticky" as a permanent record of the events. The thread will be closed one week from this post on Wednesday 18th June to allow those who wish to make final contributions to it to do so (please be aware though that forum rules still apply, and any posts which are irrelevant to the topic will be moved).  Remember that our mission here is not to dwell on the wrongs committed to us, but instead to participate in the blessed discussion that we were enriched by before these events took place.

Thank you,
The Admin/Mod Team


Good.  It is about time.
 

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ozgeorge said:
The thread will be closed one week from this post on Wednesday 18th June
The Admin/Mod Team
Thank-you folks, for an extraordinary rendevouz event hosting!

We blew the doors off 'em, and got 'em to show their true colors!

Glory to God!

Now if we can just survive our next president...!!

Reader Arsenios
 

PJ

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"When he reached the New World, Cortez burned his ships. As a result his men were well motivated."
-Captain Marko Ramius (Sean Connery) in The Hunt for Red October

(I've always liked that line, but you don't get too many opportunities to use it.)
 

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I would like to hear a final word from Father ( Irish Hermit). Isa too.

Please forgive me for any offense or negative impact I may have had during our time on CAF. I could have done much better. I was too aggressive and prideful. I beg your pardon.
 

ozgeorge

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A Reminder:
The Administrators and Moderators have come to the consensus that the time has come to close this thread and maintain it as a "sticky" as a permanent record of the events. The thread will be closed on Wednesday 18th June, and this is a reminder to allow those who wish to make final contributions to it to do so (please be aware though that forum rules still apply, and any posts which are irrelevant to the topic will be moved).  Remember that our mission here is not to dwell on the wrongs committed to us, but instead to participate in the blessed discussion that we were enriched by before these events took place.

Thank you,
The Admin/Mod Team



 

Aristocles

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Closing posts identifying the stealth-banned Orthodox and others might be in order for documentation sake:

Aristokles is among the them on CAF.
 

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maqhth said:
We blew the doors off 'em, and got 'em to show their true colors!
Unbelievable.  ::)(sigh) Doing a lot to do away with the negative perception of the Orthodox that I mentioned above. I've said all I have to say on the matter and I stand by it. I will not be returning to this forum.

Anyway, Pax Vobiscum, for those of you who actually care.
 

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Sparky said:
Unbelievable.  ::)(sigh) Doing a lot to do away with the negative perception of the Orthodox that I mentioned above. I've said all I have to say on the matter and I stand by it. I will not be returning to this forum.

Anyway, Pax Vobiscum, for those of you who actually care.
Truely a pity (cough) you won't be returning.
.
 

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Sparky said:
Unbelievable.  ::)(sigh) Doing a lot to do away with the negative perception of the Orthodox that I mentioned above. I've said all I have to say on the matter and I stand by it. I will not be returning to this forum.
That's your prerogative, of course. I just hope that if you do decide to return, I won't be for the purpose of trolling.

Sparky said:
Anyway, Pax Vobiscum, for those of you who actually care.
Thank you. Peace to you as well.
-Peter.
 

Irish Melkite

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I want to thank Father Chris, Deacon Anastasios, Robert, OzGeorge, Cleveland, Username, and all the other Mods here for the kindness and patience with which they've hosted the lot of us - Catholics and Orthodox - in our time of need for a haven that allowed us to reminisce, vent, and seriously examine the issues that exist in an environment (such as CAF) that is ill-equipped or prepared to deal with the kind of diversity that we represented. This thread has spun off several children, including the spirited one-on-one debate between Apotheoun and Ronyodish (whom I btw would never categorize as "latinized"; I know latinized Chaldeans and Rony is not one, by any means).

Hopefully, these are the beginnings of what Joe suggested - that we all "get on with it" (I know, it's not an exact quote, but I'm too lazy to go look it up right now - and you all get the drift). OC.net, ByzCath, and Peter's fledgling venture can all benefit from us doing so. Each is a bit different and some will find one a better fit than others for their style and the kind of interaction they are seeking. Regardless of where each of us ends up, we need to remember one another and the history we share.

Whether banned from CAF or still tolerated there, we truly were a community as Joe said. I haven't engaged in much argumentation in recent years, but there are those who can still recollect a good battle or two with me in times past, I suspect (Bob/Orthodoc, where are you?). But, there are few among those who posted at CAF whom I would not greet with a warm and sincere embrace were we to meet in real life. Thanks to all who shared their knowledge with me and allowed me to share mine with them, to those who shared of themselves personally, to those whose witness to their faith was inspiring, to the holy. the feisty, the humble, the funny, the intellectual, to all of you. (No swansong this - lest it sound that way to anyone; I plan to post for some years to come, here and elsewhere - as long as information-mongering remains in style :p .)

I do ask foregiveness of any of you whom I have offended and I forgive any by whom I have allowed myself to be offended.

And, in that regard, I particularly ask foregiveness of young holdencaulfield; he was right to feel harshly judged and I was wrong to have done so. I'm put in mind of one of our number (who will hopefully, if he's reading here, not be embarressed by what I'm about to say). The early CAF crowd will recollect when Andre/MagicSilence came among us as a Maronite by heritage but totally unfamiliar with the faith of his ancestors. His early postings left many of us shaking our heads. Despite the sometimes lack of patience with which we dealt with him, Andre matured into a well-informed Eastern Christian. Time and exposure to information has a habit of achieving that and we sometimes forget that each of us was once young, not as well-formed in our faith as we might be, and rarely conscious of how much room there was to grow - growing that we achieved in spite of both ourselves and the overly-impatient oldsters surrounding us. In looking over some of holdencaulfield's later posts at CAF, he too is beginning to make that transition and I pray for his success in doing so (as I do for young Matthew, who was once a scourge to many here, but whom someone reported has matured in the time since leaving). 

Joe, Father Ambrose, Padre Ambrogio, Deacon Ed, all my old and dear friends from ByzCath, all my newer and undoubtedly younger friends from CAF (including those still managing to hang on over there), I love you as my own brothers and sisters and I pray that God grants you many years in health, happiness, and His service.

Let's use the last few days of this thread as other than a slugfest.

Neil   
 

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And may I add--"cheers" to you Neil. If anyone was undeserving of a CAF ban, it was you. You are one of the most irenic and informative posters I have ever come across. Much of the information you provided helped me immensely in my own journey.

I am pleased that you will be contributing for many years to come at Byzcath and here (God willing).

God bless you Neil!

Many years,
Mickey
 

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Hi everyone - I'm "theistgal" at CA and just registered here under the same name.

I agree it's a shame that the EO perspective was removed from CA.  I've become interested in learning more about it so guess I'll just have to come here!  :D
 

ozgeorge

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ozgeorge said:
A Reminder:
The Administrators and Moderators have come to the consensus that the time has come to close this thread and maintain it as a "sticky" as a permanent record of the events. The thread will be closed on Wednesday 18th June, and this is a reminder to allow those who wish to make final contributions to it to do so (please be aware though that forum rules still apply, and any posts which are irrelevant to the topic will be moved).  Remember that our mission here is not to dwell on the wrongs committed to us, but instead to participate in the blessed discussion that we were enriched by before these events took place.

Thank you,
The Admin/Mod Team
 

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I hear the fat lady warming up.

As for the actions of CAF which started this thread, and brought us over here, all I can say is "you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is this day...(Gen. 50:20).

I look forward to keeping in tough.  Ooops! Touch.

MANY YEARS OC!
 

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Opera cast warming up for the celebrations.



The symphony appears in a group photo



Pope Benedict XVI arrives one day ahead of schedule to relax and prepare for the upcoming celebrations



Highly trained international police force has been brought in to assure smooth operation of celebration



Traffic is already backed up.

So be prepared!  Celebrations are almost underway!
 

ozgeorge

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Jetavan said:
What time on the 18th of June, will the thread close?
Let's go by Jerusalem Time.
Sunset in Jerusalem today is at 7:47pm. That is exactly 5 hours away. This thread will be closed as the Sun sets in Jerusalem.
You can check the current local time in Jerusalem here: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=110
 

lubeltri

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Sparky said:
You are invited to a neighbor's house. You go in, make yourself at home, kick off your shoes, eat their food, smoke their cigars (if you smoke), drink all their beer and you don't leave. You mock their cooking, their decor, their family and friends. Then, other people who come in, you do your level best to turn them against your hosts. You do this for a good long time. How long do you think they're going to let you stick around?

This is the situation with CAF. From what I understand, and I did poke my nose in the forum in question a couple of times and I was horrified, I saw the Church being routinely insulted, mocked and an active tendency to try to convert Catholics from their faith. These were your hosts.
This is what I saw as well. I never posted in that forum because I had the sense that I would be accosted by a bunch of proselytizers.
 

PJ

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ialmisry said:
As for the actions of CAF which started this thread, and brought us over here, all I can say is "you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is this day...(Gen. 50:20).
I'm glad you said that. I was actually just thinking yesterday that CAF's closing the "Eastern Christianity" forum all at once may have been a blessing is disguise -- as compared with the alternative of replacing Joe with another moderator, then keeping everything the same at first but very slowly "tightening the noose" ...

username! said:


Highly trained international police force has been brought in to assure smooth operation of celebration
Awesome. :police:
 

ozgeorge

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lubeltri said:
This is what I saw as well. I never posted in that forum because I had the sense that I would be accosted by a bunch of proselytizers.
You mean, all those nasty "proselytizers" who contributed to this thread after CAF secretly banned them and explained in the pages of this thread that they in fact were not prosyletizing but simply providing answers in defense of the Orthodox Faith which the Catholic members of CAF simply had no response for? You mean those "proselytizers". ::)
Pathetic attempt at whitewashing.
 

lubeltri

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ozgeorge said:
You mean, all those nasty "proselytizers" who contributed to this thread after CAF secretly banned them and explained in the pages of this thread that they in fact were not prosyletizing but simply providing answers in defense of the Orthodox Faith which the Catholic members of CAF simply had no response for? You mean those "proselytizers". ::)
Pathetic attempt at whitewashing.
I used to read that forum regularly. I know what I saw. It was aggressive proselytizing, and judging from the crowing on this thread about the converts who were bagged there, my impression is confirmed.
 

PeterTheAleut

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ozgeorge said:
Let's go by Jerusalem Time.
Sunset in Jerusalem today is at 7:47pm. That is exactly 5 hours away. This thread will be closed as the Sun sets in Jerusalem.
You can check the current local time in Jerusalem here: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=110
It is now 9:47 a.m. Pacific Time (12:47 p.m. NY time), so in keeping with the above, this thread is now locked.
 
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