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CCW in Bars and Eateries allowed in my State now

orthonorm

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The prayer thread about shooting in one's neighborhood sparked my memory of another thread that went down a path to a few of us discussing CCW in a serious manner within the context of Christianity.

The folks who seemed to have "real" experience from their posts were as I recall were Cognomen, Punch, and of course me.

Ohio recently extended CCW to bars and eateries, if you don't drink any alcohol. Since I don't, I could carry in a bar.

Just seems a bit jarring to consider nowadays.

I used to drink in places where people pretty much openly carried (illegally of course), but that was a long time ago.

Outside the "Christian" aspect of carrying in a bar, do you think allowing carrying in a bar makes sense? Seems like an environment where stupidity happens frequently and thankfully I steer clear of it. But sometimes, it hard to avoid. And you are in a bar with a firearm. Seems a bit dicey given the close proximity of by-standers and the like.

 

vamrat

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I think if you are going to carry in any close in space you need to be VERY cautious.  I have been in a good number of bars and there are NO good lines of fire in there.  In addition, you also have to take into account over-penetration.  We have done tests involving phone books and different calibers (not the best or most scientific, but close enough).  The only caliber I would really trust would be a .38 Special, preferably with expanding bullets.  Haven't tested the .40 or the 9mm yet. 

There are only certain times when I would carry in a bar - many bars are restaurants as well as bars and I usually don't drink, and if I am playing pool.  I generally drink when I play pool because you can't carry anyway, but if I could I would probably just skip the drinking and keep the gun.
 

Punch

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I tend to avoid places that would increase the probability of me needing a firearm.  Bars surely fit that bill.  However, the liquor store that I used to frequent had a manager that encouraged people to carry, even if it was against the law to do so concealed.  He had a bad guy's pistol in his face one too many times.  The bartender at the bar next door to me carries a Glock on his hip while he is at work.  Same issue as above.  Concealed carry is illegal in bars in this state.  Open carry is not, at least as I understand the law.
 

Punch

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vamrat said:
I think if you are going to carry in any close in space you need to be VERY cautious.  I have been in a good number of bars and there are NO good lines of fire in there.  In addition, you also have to take into account over-penetration.  We have done tests involving phone books and different calibers (not the best or most scientific, but close enough).  The only caliber I would really trust would be a .38 Special, preferably with expanding bullets.  Haven't tested the .40 or the 9mm yet. 
There are options.  The Glaser Safety Slug was designed for this purpose.  Best shot out of a revolver, or as the round in the chamber in an autoloader.  They do not feed very well, but they do not penetrate.  Other frangible bullets would also work.  In .40 Short and Weak (S&W), the Winchester Ranger 135 grain load was designed for use by Customs agents in airports and other crowded areas.  Also, keep in mind that Air Marshals use the .357 SIG.  Airplanes do not like bullets, so you may want to see what load the Air Marshals use and get a .357 SIG barrel for that .40.  Whatever you do, don't use the loads that Thomas tested!
 

Cognomen

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First off, congrats.  It's always good to have an additional option, whether you use it or not.

orthonorm said:
Seems like an environment where stupidity happens frequently and thankfully I steer clear of it. But sometimes, it hard to avoid. And you are in a bar with a firearm. Seems a bit dicey given the close proximity of by-standers and the like.
I find it a bit dicey as well.  I don't drink either, so it's been an option for me, but I frequently choose not to.  It really depends on the situation.  Typically, if I carry to a bar, I wish I didn't, and if I don't, I wish I did.  I have no idea if that's due to bad judgment or being an annoyingly neurotic person.

vamrat said:
Haven't tested the .40 or the 9mm yet.
They work.  I personally moved from the .40 to 9mm's and .45's (unless I have to carry something else).  As Punch mentioned, the .357 Sig is a hot round.  I'm not a fan of the new gun the FAM's use though; very difficult for quick follow-up shots.  It has increased times for their qualifying courses.  I bought the anti-9mm hype for awhile, but for capacity, ease of use, price, etc. it gets the job done in most situations.
 

biro

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Does the law also include restaurants that serve alcohol, or just drinks-only bars?
 
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The restaurants I get. The bar, I don't get. It just doesn't lend itself to the idea that the patron will be of sound judgment when it comes time for him to use his weapon, or he may misinterpret a situation. I know the law says that so long as the patron isn't drinking, but he's in a bar...

As for testing the .40, if I had my CCW it's what I would carry. I have a .40 Springfield XD snub, less recoil than my old 9mm, but superior firepower and accuracy.
 

biro

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If I lived there, the bars would lose my business. I'd be afraid to wind up next to someone who can't hold his liquor. If he doesn't like the song I pick on the jukebox, then- it was nice knowing you!  :-X (Blam)
 

Punch

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biro said:
If I lived there, the bars would lose my business. I'd be afraid to wind up next to someone who can't hold his liquor. If he doesn't like the song I pick on the jukebox, then- it was nice knowing you!  :-X (Blam)
News flash - the guys like that are carrying anyway, law or no law.  The law allows decent people a fighting chance when one of these guys does go off his rocker (all too common around here).  Kind of like in my state where "No Guns" signs only apply to those that actually follow the law.  That is why I call these places "kill zones" since the only people with guns are the law breakers.
 

ialmisry

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orthonorm said:
The prayer thread about shooting in one's neighborhood sparked my memory of another thread that went down a path to a few of us discussing CCW in a serious manner within the context of Christianity.

The folks who seemed to have "real" experience from their posts were as I recall were Cognomen, Punch, and of course me.

Ohio recently extended CCW to bars and eateries, if you don't drink any alcohol. Since I don't, I could carry in a bar.

Just seems a bit jarring to consider nowadays.

I used to drink in places where people pretty much openly carried (illegally of course), but that was a long time ago.

Outside the "Christian" aspect of carrying in a bar, do you think allowing carrying in a bar makes sense? Seems like an environment where stupidity happens frequently and thankfully I steer clear of it. But sometimes, it hard to avoid. And you are in a bar with a firearm. Seems a bit dicey given the close proximity of by-standers and the like.
Well, coming from the safest state of the union (must be:we're the only one without CCW  ::)), and never having touched a gun, let alone firing one, I'd be more interested in what the actual stats are: is there an increase of gun violence in bars?
 

CBGardner

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Punch said:
biro said:
If I lived there, the bars would lose my business. I'd be afraid to wind up next to someone who can't hold his liquor. If he doesn't like the song I pick on the jukebox, then- it was nice knowing you!  :-X (Blam)
News flash - the guys like that are carrying anyway, law or no law.  The law allows decent people a fighting chance when one of these guys does go off his rocker (all too common around here).  Kind of like in my state where "No Guns" signs only apply to those that actually follow the law.  That is why I call these places "kill zones" since the only people with guns are the law breakers.
If I'm reading this correctly I'm with Punch. A troublemaker drinking in some bar who wants to carry will whether the law allows it or not. This is just for those who'd feel safer with a gun so they can have one. I'm not sure if I see a whole lot of angry, drunken gun fights on the horizon because of this. The guys who do it do it already. Arizona actually dropped their CCW program from what my uncle told me. Now anyone can carry concealed without registration or mandated training. In this day and age that's surprising.
 
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