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Christian support of the nation state of Israel

primuspilus

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I really didnt know where to put this.

So, my questions is, why or why not should Christian support the current nation state of Israel?

Im not trying to get political, but its a big and divisive subject, and I just want to know people's thoughts.

Personally, I do not because the current holders of the land gave their rights away spiritually upon them denying Christ and His crucifixion, and legally during the Seige of Jerusalem when the Jews agreed to have the Muslims rule over them in their own land, just to kick out the Christians.

Thoughts?

PP
 

Iconodule

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Jews have a right to live there as do the Palestinians. They do not have a right to evict people from their homes, murder civilians, or erect a racist apartheid state.
 

vamrat

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Most of the answers would probably be political.

The only religious answers I can think of are 1.) some people think that Israel returning as a political entity means that the Jews have returned to Israel (rather than returning to God) which will bring about the rapture and they can finally go to heaven and leave the [redacted political commentary because when they say "sinners" they mean De...] and 2.) the misguided belief that the Covenant is between God and the Jews and not between God and His people - who are now the Christian Church, though previously had been the sons of Moses.

 

primuspilus

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Jews have a right to live there as do the Palestinians
I agree to that. Everyone should have a home. however, my issue is that alot of the Dispensationalists are rabid supporters (bordering on blind apology) for the nation state of Israel. Is there anything in the New Testament that talks about this? Ive never seen it.

PP
 

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primuspilus said:
Jews have a right to live there as do the Palestinians
I agree to that. Everyone should have a home. however, my issue is that alot of the Dispensationalists are rabid supporters (bordering on blind apology) for the nation state of Israel. Is there anything in the New Testament that talks about this? Ive never seen it.

PP
Not really, the Orthodox position is that the Jews are a people like any other. If you want to mostly support Israel, I'll disagree with you but this is just fine from you as a Christian. However, as we shouldn't do with any country, you shouldn't make it a religious support or justify their atrocities.
 

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RaphaCam said:
primuspilus said:
Jews have a right to live there as do the Palestinians
I agree to that. Everyone should have a home. however, my issue is that alot of the Dispensationalists are rabid supporters (bordering on blind apology) for the nation state of Israel. Is there anything in the New Testament that talks about this? Ive never seen it.

PP
Not really, the Orthodox position is that the Jews are a people like any other.
Not really.
 

primuspilus

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mike said:
RaphaCam said:
primuspilus said:
Jews have a right to live there as do the Palestinians
I agree to that. Everyone should have a home. however, my issue is that alot of the Dispensationalists are rabid supporters (bordering on blind apology) for the nation state of Israel. Is there anything in the New Testament that talks about this? Ive never seen it.

PP
Not really, the Orthodox position is that the Jews are a people like any other.
Not really.
?
 

Iconodule

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If we read hymns, fathers, etc, it's pretty clear the Jews are not "a people like any other." And this before we start talking about some of the horrible manifestations of anti-Semitism in our history.
 

primuspilus

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Iconodule said:
If we read hymns, fathers, etc, it's pretty clear the Jews are not "a people like any other." And this before we start talking about some of the horrible manifestations of anti-Semitism in our history.
I know they're not, but I was wondering what mike meant by that.

PP
 

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primuspilus said:
mike said:
RaphaCam said:
primuspilus said:
Jews have a right to live there as do the Palestinians
I agree to that. Everyone should have a home. however, my issue is that alot of the Dispensationalists are rabid supporters (bordering on blind apology) for the nation state of Israel. Is there anything in the New Testament that talks about this? Ive never seen it.

PP
Not really, the Orthodox position is that the Jews are a people like any other.
Not really.
?
Rm 11, 25-36
 

Onesimus

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Several issues.

Though I generally support the state of Israel (as if my support mattered one whit), and since I have Jewish ancestry / blood, Jewish Zionism as we know it has dubious claims to the Holy Land.  "Jews" being allowed claim to the Holy Lands at the expense of Palestinians is as dubious as a group of Orthodox Christians claiming to be the "true Israel" and heir to that heritage (religious & genealogical).

As someone with Jewish blood, I am ineligible to exercise "right of return" and become an Israeli citizen, because though my genetics support such a move and claim, the fact that I am no longer of the Jewish religion makes me ineligible.  I am also ineligible because my decent from Jewish ancestry is removed more than one generation.  So genetics/race/ancestry are not a viable claim under the laws of right of return established under Zionism.  One must not only be a "Jew" - one must be the "right kind of Jew" to be "Jewish."  This is why there have been so many issues with African Jews in Israel and their rejection by various groups.  Any Jew with a religious affiliation different from secular Judaism or Rabbinic Judaism may not immigrate to Israel. 

Second, though very controversial in the past, it has been shown that the vast majority of "Jews" in Israel are of Khazar descent and are not genetically "Jewish" as might have once been assumed or promulgated.  DNA evidence has proven this, and it is this Khazar DNA which I have.  My family origins on this end are Turkish/Eastern European/Russ/Slav, not Middle Eastern/Holy Land.  All of this information is verified by Jewish sources who can no longer deny it.  http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/khazars.html  So far as a people having their own "homeland" I see this as a fait accompli by a group of non-indigenous settlers calling themselves "Jews" to a land in which they could establish some kind of "safety."  This cannot be discounted regardless of race/religious/ancestral irregularities coming to the fore.  It is one thing to say that a religious or political group ought to have a homeland, and another thing justifying that group's claims at the expense of others.

The "legitimacy" of the "Jewish" state is about as validly historical, cultural and religious as is the European claim to North America.  Which is to say it's not...except from a very political, ideological and utilitarian vantage point.

The complex political and social issues which may or may not validate the current state of things in our minds are actually quite removed from the who is and who is not a "true Israelite" or "true Jew."

Thinking that modern Jews actually represent the Judiaism and Jewish racial background of pre-diaspora Israel is dubious.

Now, I'll wait to be called an anti-Semite.  :-\




 

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Oh yeah, one can also convert to Judaism from any race and ostensibly be eligible to immigrate to Israel, though in practice this has proven difficult. 

The modern state of Israel Is not really about "Jewish" ancestry.  It's more fundamentally a religious ideology with political grounding.  If such a state with the same kinds of rules was created by Orthodox Christians, or any other christian for that matter, there would be hell to pay.

Again, this is all a separate issue from what we might hope to support geopolitically by supporting the modern state of Israel.  On those grounds, might make right, as history has shown.
 

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I am of the personal perspective that Israel is NOT an apartheid state, and anyone who says it is doesn't know what apartheid really was. Furthermore, EVERY single Muslim living in Greater Israel should be ordered to exit the country within 30 days. Christians and Druze are welcome to live there, of course, provided they obey the laws.

I have EXTREMELY personal reasons for my views. But calling Israel an Apartheid State is just stupid. In Israel proper, 22% of the population is Arab, and has members in the Knesset, on the Supreme Court, serving in the Army (by choice, they are NOT drafted, as Jews are), they vote, they CAN use the same amenities as Jews (ie, they don't have to take a dump in separate bathrooms or ride separate buses, etc).

What goes on in the Occupied Territories is an entirely different matter. NO country anywhere in the world treats a territory it occupies the same way it treats its own territory. But let us compare Israel's treatment of the so-called "Palestinians" (which are not a nationality and never have been) with OTHER countries and the people whom they occupy. In fact, I'll pick one: Tibet.

In the Occupied Territories, Israel took that land, originally controlled by Jordan and Egypt, AFTER those countries lost a war that THEY started. They massed armies on Israel's borders. Israel took the initiative and attacked first, and won the Six Day War. Who They actually gave back (to Egypt) MUCH of the land they took for peace.

But in 1976 BOTH Egypt and Jordan renounced all claims to the Gaza and the West Bank. According to International Law, they were obligated to allow the residents of those areas the chance to move into the countries of their citizenship (Egypt and Jordan). They did not. Ergo, those people became Stateless. That in no way conferred upon them a THIRD nationality called "Palestinian", which had never existed in history. And Israel is HARDLY obligated to give these people citizenship in a country they want to destroy.

Israel is accused of genocide. Funny, that. Since 1967, the population of the "Palestinians" has increased by FOUR times! If Israel is trying to commit genocide, they must REALLY suck at it!

Israel is the ONLY nation in the world that allows the Occupied the right to sue the Occupier in the the Occupier's own Supreme Court, where the Occupied often win.

This is in complete contrast to Tibet. The Han Chinese invaded Tibet with NO justification in 1959. In 1966, there were 6,000 monasteries in Tibet. By 1976, there were 8. Yes, you read that right. EIGHT! If you are Tibetan, try to sue the Government of the People's Republic of China in the Supreme People's Court. You will be taken out back and shot before your can blink for treason against the State, and for Trying to Subvert State Power.

Furthermore, people complain about Jewish Settlements in the West Bank. First, let it be noted there are NONE in the Gaza. THERE ARE NO JEWS IN THE GAZA. In the West Bank, they are only in certain areas. In Tibet, there are so many Han that in certain parts of Tibet, they are a majority of the population. And Tibet itself has been divided such that parts of Tibet are now in two Chinese provinces, in order that Han Chinese are the majority of the population. The remaining part of Tibet is still majority Tibetan, but how long that will remain the case is uncertain. The reason it still is is simple. In spite of all the incentives that The Government of the PRC offers to Han to get them to move to Tibet, few take them up on the offer, since most Han enjoy breathing, and they find that difficult in the Himalayas.

Israel, it should be noted, has offered "Palestine" a state 3 or 4 times, and the last time even offered East Jerusalem as a capital, much against the wishes of their own people. Instead of taking the offer, the "Palestinians" started the Second Intifada.

Anybody who hides rockets in schools, uses children as human shields and suicide bombers, etc etc, should not even be allowed to live, in my not so humble opinion. But rather than shooting every one of them, which is what they deserve, I would simply impose on them the obligation of leaving Greater Israel within 30 days for any Arab country of their choice. There are 22 to choose from.

Again, an exception could be made for the Christians and the Druze. And yes, I do have strong personal reasons for my views, which I have no intention of discussing here.

I don't think the previous poster is an anti-Semite, I think he is simply inaccurate. As a person with an MA in history, the fact is that the only Khazars that converted to Judaism were the leaders of Khazaria. And they did so because their people were Christian, Muslim, and Tenghrik. They did not want to appear to favour ANY of the three. There is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE to indicate that today's Ashkenazi Jews are descended from Khazars. That theory was imploded in the late 19th Century. To suggest otherwise is pure tomfoolery. Its not anti-Semitism, its just silliness.
 

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Also, Karaite Jews are permitted to emigrate to Israel, as are Ethiopian Jews. So trying to argue that you HAVE to be a Rabbinic Jew to move there is simply inaccurate.
 

primuspilus

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Onesimus said:
Several issues.

Though I generally support the state of Israel (as if my support mattered one whit), and since I have Jewish ancestry / blood, Jewish Zionism as we know it has dubious claims to the Holy Land.  "Jews" being allowed claim to the Holy Lands at the expense of Palestinians is as dubious as a group of Orthodox Christians claiming to be the "true Israel" and heir to that heritage (religious & genealogical).

As someone with Jewish blood, I am ineligible to exercise "right of return" and become an Israeli citizen, because though my genetics support such a move and claim, the fact that I am no longer of the Jewish religion makes me ineligible.  I am also ineligible because my decent from Jewish ancestry is removed more than one generation.  So genetics/race/ancestry are not a viable claim under the laws of right of return established under Zionism.  One must not only be a "Jew" - one must be the "right kind of Jew" to be "Jewish."  This is why there have been so many issues with African Jews in Israel and their rejection by various groups.  Any Jew with a religious affiliation different from secular Judaism or Rabbinic Judaism may not immigrate to Israel. 

Second, though very controversial in the past, it has been shown that the vast majority of "Jews" in Israel are of Khazar descent and are not genetically "Jewish" as might have once been assumed or promulgated.  DNA evidence has proven this, and it is this Khazar DNA which I have.  My family origins on this end are Turkish/Eastern European/Russ/Slav, not Middle Eastern/Holy Land.  All of this information is verified by Jewish sources who can no longer deny it.  http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/khazars.html  So far as a people having their own "homeland" I see this as a fait accompli by a group of non-indigenous settlers calling themselves "Jews" to a land in which they could establish some kind of "safety."  This cannot be discounted regardless of race/religious/ancestral irregularities coming to the fore.  It is one thing to say that a religious or political group ought to have a homeland, and another thing justifying that group's claims at the expense of others.

The "legitimacy" of the "Jewish" state is about as validly historical, cultural and religious as is the European claim to North America.  Which is to say it's not...except from a very political, ideological and utilitarian vantage point.

The complex political and social issues which may or may not validate the current state of things in our minds are actually quite removed from the who is and who is not a "true Israelite" or "true Jew."

Thinking that modern Jews actually represent the Judiaism and Jewish racial background of pre-diaspora Israel is dubious.

Now, I'll wait to be called an anti-Semite.  :-\
Wow, this is very well thought out. Thanks for this.

PP
 

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Diego said:
Also, Karaite Jews are permitted to emigrate to Israel, as are Ethiopian Jews. So trying to argue that you HAVE to be a Rabbinic Jew to move there is simply inaccurate.
Haha.  And what are the origins of the kararites? 

* my iPad wanted to autocorrect kararites to "margaritas."

Btw, Diego, I don't disagree with your political interpretations of issues on the ground as they stand in relationship to the modern mess we have made.  But you are drawing this into a political discussion and this is not the place for it...or this will get moved to another area.
 

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Onesimus said:
Diego said:
Also, Karaite Jews are permitted to emigrate to Israel, as are Ethiopian Jews. So trying to argue that you HAVE to be a Rabbinic Jew to move there is simply inaccurate.
Haha.  And what are the origins of the kararites? 

* my iPad wanted to autocorrect kararites to "margaritas."
First off, the Karaites are a TINY population. And their origins date back as far as the Sadduceess, actually. Rabbinic Jews go back to the Pharisees.
 

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Diego said:
Onesimus said:
Diego said:
Also, Karaite Jews are permitted to emigrate to Israel, as are Ethiopian Jews. So trying to argue that you HAVE to be a Rabbinic Jew to move there is simply inaccurate.
Haha.  And what are the origins of the kararites? 

* my iPad wanted to autocorrect kararites to "margaritas."
First off, the Karaites are a TINY population. And their origins date back as far as the Sadduceess, actually.
Tell us more.  This doesn't seem to jive with what I know.  But I'd love to be enlightened, actually.

Specifically, what support is there that the karalites are descended from the Sadducees and are not a middle ages offshoot of rabbinic Judaism.    I really would like you to disabuse me of any inaccuracies that are not opinions.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE to indicate that today's Ashkenazi Jews are descended from Khazars. That theory was imploded in the late 19th Century. To suggest otherwise is pure tomfoolery. Its not anti-Semitism, its just silliness.
That silly DNA.  Tomfoolery science. 

Though I am fully prepared to accept that this is being propagandized...I'm not sure it is.
 

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primuspilus said:
I really didnt know where to put this.

So, my questions is, why or why not should Christian support the current nation state of Israel?

Im not trying to get political, but its a big and divisive subject, and I just want to know people's thoughts.

Personally, I do not because the current holders of the land gave their rights away spiritually upon them denying Christ and His crucifixion, and legally during the Seige of Jerusalem when the Jews agreed to have the Muslims rule over them in their own land, just to kick out the Christians.

Thoughts?

PP
When God sent His Son, He got out of the real estate business.

Read what the Torah says about what would happen if the Hebrews disobeyed the Covenant. Since the Zionist state has determined that one cannot be Jewish and Christian, it has taken disobedience as a core principle.  The Fathers saw the epitome of that in the martyrdom of St. James the Brother of God, which led to the destruction of Jerusalem and the scattering of the Jews.

Palestinian Jews, of course, have a right to be there.
 

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Diego said:
I am of the personal perspective that Israel is NOT an apartheid state, and anyone who says it is doesn't know what apartheid really was.[
Then you don't know what you are talking about, as your post goes on to show. (except on the Khazars-that was true enough).
 

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Well, ok. The Karaites have a tiny population. And their beliefs are actually VERY different than that of Rabbinic Jews. Rabbinic Jews accept both the Scriptures, ie, the Old Testament in its Masoretic Text, and the Talmud, as sources of belief. They accept the existence of Angels and Demons, and Resurrection of the body. They accept pretty much everything that their forebears the Pharisees accepted.

The Karaites, on the other hand accept ONLY the Scriptures. They reject the Talmud out of hand and consider it to be borderline on evil. They DO accept the entire Scripture, unlike the Sadducees, who rejected anything after the Torah itself. But the Karaites refuse to accept any Jewish Law outside the Scriptures. So for example, they will not boil a kid in its mother's milk, but they WILL eat a cheeseburger, whereas a Rabbinic Jew will not, because the Talmud does not permit it. The Talmud often extends Jewish Law WELL past what the Hebrew Bible does.

For many years, Rabbinic Jews did not regard Karaites as Jews at all. This changed about 20 years ago, and Karaites may now emigrate to Israel like any Jew. Karaites themselves did not accept converts until 2005. For 500 years no person was allowed to convert to Karaism. They now do allow it. It is very unusual, however.

During WWII, Hitler actually extended mercy to Karaite Jews. For the most part, they were NOT sent to concentration camps. Some of them did make efforts to hide Rabbinic Jews in their communities. It was a messy time.
 

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I never said there wasn't racism in Israel. There is, unfortunately. But that doesn't mean that Ethiopian Jews aren't permitted to emigrate to Israel. In fact, they were BROUGHT to Israel from Ethiopia by the Government of Israel in two huge airlifts.
 

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Onesimus said:
Diego said:
Onesimus said:
Diego said:
Also, Karaite Jews are permitted to emigrate to Israel, as are Ethiopian Jews. So trying to argue that you HAVE to be a Rabbinic Jew to move there is simply inaccurate.
Haha.  And what are the origins of the kararites? 

* my iPad wanted to autocorrect kararites to "margaritas."
First off, the Karaites are a TINY population. And their origins date back as far as the Sadduceess, actually.
Tell us more.  This doesn't seem to jive with what I know.  But I'd love to be enlightened, actually.

Specifically, what support is there that the karalites are descended from the Sadducees and are not a middle ages offshoot of rabbinic Judaism.    I really would like you to disabuse me of any inaccuracies that are not opinions.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE to indicate that today's Ashkenazi Jews are descended from Khazars. That theory was imploded in the late 19th Century. To suggest otherwise is pure tomfoolery. Its not anti-Semitism, its just silliness.
That silly DNA.  Tomfoolery science. 

Though I am fully prepared to accept that this is being propagandized...I'm not sure it is.
the claim of the Karaites to be Sadducess is akin to the Protestants claiming to be Primitive/Original Christianity.
 

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ialmisry said:
Diego said:
I am of the personal perspective that Israel is NOT an apartheid state, and anyone who says it is doesn't know what apartheid really was.[
Then you don't know what you are talking about, as your post goes on to show. (except on the Khazars-that was true enough).
I encourage you to demonstrate to me where in Israel the so-called "Palestinians" are obligated to use different amenities than the Jews. Again, what goes on in the Occupied Territories is a different matter, because those areas are not part of Israel, properly speaking. They should be, of course. But they are not.
 

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And actually, it was the DNA that proved the Khazars had nothing to do with Jews and Judaism...
 

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Nor did I say the Karaites WERE Saducees. I said their beliefs were descended from them. The Rabbinic Jews aren't Pharisees. But their beliefs descend from them.
 

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If you are going to argue, please do so with intelligence. Otherwise, I would recommend not doing so at all. It might cause you considerable embarrassment.
 

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Diego said:
The Karaites, on the other hand accept ONLY the Scriptures. They reject the Talmud out of hand and consider it to be borderline on evil.
They are not even wrong there.
 

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Diego said:
And actually, it was the DNA that proved the Khazars had nothing to do with Jews and Judaism...
Diego said:
Well, ok. The Karaites have a tiny population. And their beliefs are actually VERY different than that of Rabbinic Jews. Rabbinic Jews accept both the Scriptures, ie, the Old Testament in its Masoretic Text, and the Talmud, as sources of belief. They accept the existence of Angels and Demons, and Resurrection of the body. They accept pretty much everything that their forebears the Pharisees accepted.

The Karaites, on the other hand accept ONLY the Scriptures. They reject the Talmud out of hand and consider it to be borderline on evil. They DO accept the entire Scripture, unlike the Sadducees, who rejected anything after the Torah itself. But the Karaites refuse to accept any Jewish Law outside the Scriptures. So for example, they will not boil a kid in its mother's milk, but they WILL eat a cheeseburger, whereas a Rabbinic Jew will not, because the Talmud does not permit it. The Talmud often extends Jewish Law WELL past what the Hebrew Bible does.

For many years, Rabbinic Jews did not regard Karaites as Jews at all. This changed about 20 years ago, and Karaites may now emigrate to Israel like any Jew. Karaites themselves did not accept converts until 2005. For 500 years no person was allowed to convert to Karaism. They now do allow it. It is very unusual, however.

During WWII, Hitler actually extended mercy to Karaite Jews. For the most part, they were NOT sent to concentration camps. Some of them did make efforts to hide Rabbinic Jews in their communities. It was a messy time.
This does not answer the question.  It only goes towards pointing out differences of theology, not their origin.  If I start a Jewish sect today, and it uses methods and claims belief similar to s]the Sadducees, does that mean I have a line direct to the Sadducees Jews?    I'm looking for historical, geneological proofs, not points of circumstantial religious similarity.

I really want to see this validated historically.
 

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Diego said:
And actually, it was the DNA that proved the Khazars had nothing to do with Jews and Judaism...
Nope.  But again, people on both sides of this are going to accept or deny whatever fulfills their viewpoint.

It becomes a rock throwing contest between scientist, politicians, and apparently Christian Posters on of.net
 

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Diego said:
Nor did I say the Karaites WERE Saducees. I said their beliefs were descended from them. The Rabbinic Jews aren't Pharisees. But their beliefs descend from them.
Hmmmm.  I got something entirely different from;

And their origins date back as far as the Sadduceess, actually. Rabbinic Jews go back to the Pharisees.
 

Diego

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Cyrillic said:
Diego said:
The Karaites, on the other hand accept ONLY the Scriptures. They reject the Talmud out of hand and consider it to be borderline on evil.
They are not even wrong there.
Have you ever even read the Talmud? I have. I would encourage you read all 20 volumes first before you speak. Right now you just sound silly.

ONESIMUS, while I have heard from various sources that they started that far back, I am unable to produce those sources at this time. I am not stupid enough to challenge the current historically accepted opinion that they began in approximately 641 aD (that is when the Arabs have records of dealing with them in Egypt). One assumes they were around before that for a time, for the Governor to have to deal with them by then. There is a pretty good report in Wikipedia on them. Although I HAVE read otherwise, I can't produce evidence right now, so I shall give over until I can. However, 642 STILL predates the Khazars by several centuries.
 

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I have a meeting shortly. I shall be back later, however. Peace to you all.
 

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Diego said:
Cyrillic said:
Diego said:
The Karaites, on the other hand accept ONLY the Scriptures. They reject the Talmud out of hand and consider it to be borderline on evil.
They are not even wrong there.
Have you ever even read the Talmud? I have. I would encourage you read all 20 volumes first before you speak. Right now you just sound silly.
Nah, I care little for the follies and blasphemies of the Pharisees.
 

ialmisry

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Diego said:
ialmisry said:
Diego said:
I am of the personal perspective that Israel is NOT an apartheid state, and anyone who says it is doesn't know what apartheid really was.[
Then you don't know what you are talking about, as your post goes on to show. (except on the Khazars-that was true enough).
I encourage you to demonstrate to me where in Israel the so-called "Palestinians" are obligated to use different amenities than the Jews.
Besides your confusion between Segregation and Apartheid, any European looking Palestinian and any Arab looking "Israeli" in so called "Israel" could show you.

I noticed a peculiar absences of public water fountains there. Maybe you have now explained it.

Diego said:
Again, what goes on in the Occupied Territories is a different matter, because those areas are not part of Israel, properly speaking. They should be, of course. But they are not.
and so, as if further evidence was needed that you do not know what you are talking about....
 

ialmisry

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Diego said:
Nor did I say the Karaites WERE Saducees. I said their beliefs were descended from them.
You are wrong there too.
Diego said:
The Rabbinic Jews aren't Pharisees. But their beliefs descend from them.
You finally got something right.
 

ialmisry

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Diego said:
If you are going to argue, please do so with intelligence. Otherwise, I would recommend not doing so at all. It might cause you considerable embarrassment.
Physician, heal thyself.
 

ialmisry

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Onesimus said:
Diego said:
And actually, it was the DNA that proved the Khazars had nothing to do with Jews and Judaism...
Diego said:
Well, ok. The Karaites have a tiny population. And their beliefs are actually VERY different than that of Rabbinic Jews. Rabbinic Jews accept both the Scriptures, ie, the Old Testament in its Masoretic Text, and the Talmud, as sources of belief. They accept the existence of Angels and Demons, and Resurrection of the body. They accept pretty much everything that their forebears the Pharisees accepted.

The Karaites, on the other hand accept ONLY the Scriptures. They reject the Talmud out of hand and consider it to be borderline on evil. They DO accept the entire Scripture, unlike the Sadducees, who rejected anything after the Torah itself. But the Karaites refuse to accept any Jewish Law outside the Scriptures. So for example, they will not boil a kid in its mother's milk, but they WILL eat a cheeseburger, whereas a Rabbinic Jew will not, because the Talmud does not permit it. The Talmud often extends Jewish Law WELL past what the Hebrew Bible does.

For many years, Rabbinic Jews did not regard Karaites as Jews at all. This changed about 20 years ago, and Karaites may now emigrate to Israel like any Jew. Karaites themselves did not accept converts until 2005. For 500 years no person was allowed to convert to Karaism. They now do allow it. It is very unusual, however.

During WWII, Hitler actually extended mercy to Karaite Jews. For the most part, they were NOT sent to concentration camps. Some of them did make efforts to hide Rabbinic Jews in their communities. It was a messy time.
This does not answer the question.  It only goes towards pointing out differences of theology, not their origin.  If I start a Jewish sect today, and it uses methods and claims belief similar to s]the Sadducees, does that mean I have a line direct to the Sadducees Jews?    I'm looking for historical, geneological proofs, not points of circumstantial religious similarity.

I really want to see this validated historically.
Like Protestantism, it can't be. Sadducee teaching was preserved only in what the Rabbis said about it for five centuries between the extinction of the Sadducees and the rise of the Karaites.
 
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