- Jun 29, 2009
- Reaction score
- Wichita, KS
yet we work out our salvation in visible ways...by partaking of the sacraments, for example.FountainPen said:Since we're talking about those who acton faith, i don't think Atheists are a good example as they would never have faith in Christ to act upon. Separately however, demons also believe and yes, humanists produce good deeds. The ultimate definition of a saved person would be one who has been sealed by the Spirit of God. That's not something you can see though so for those with an emphasis on salvation through the visible church, i doubt that would be an acceptable definition.Volnutt said:Nope, even atheists can do good works. You won't ever know if your works were done truly for the love of God and neighbor or out of pride (except in that relative sense I was talking about).FountainPen said:Well if we can cut to the chase i suppose we're back to Vol's question suggesting none of us can know if we truly believe or not. I would say that to answer the question is that what we truly believe will be evidenced by the outworking of our faith.PeterTheAleut said:You do realize I didn't ask you.FountainPen said:I don't. The word defines it accurately enough but i daren't provide a source or i'll get accused of proof texting or firing bible bullits.PeterTheAleut said:How do you define saved?FountainPen said:We don't gather in the visible church to be saved but becuase we are already saved.Fotina02 said:Saint Ilarion (Troitsky) quoted earlier points out:ByGracethroughFaith said:It has everything to do with the church - and whether it is visible or invisible. Salvation is personal. No one attains salvation by being a part of a certain or particular 'group'. Many would have us all believe this but it is not so. Salvation is personal. We then commune with other believers all of the time.. Anywhere and everywhere.. Members of the Body of Christ. 24 hr/day, 7 day a week church.
To come to believe in Christ, to become a Christian - this meant uniting with the Church. This is repeatedly expressed in the book of the Acts of the Apostles, where we read that the Lord daily added the saved to the Church (cf. Acts 2:47; 5:13-14).
Actually, you just showed me that you DO define saved. How do you know, though, that your definition is a complete, biblical understanding of salvation? How do we know if you won't tell us?
Working on your other post.