Or as my dear,late Tennessee aunt would correct you - the Battle of Sharpsburg! But regardless of what you call it, this was indeed the bloodiest day in the history of the United States of America with about 23,000 casualties on both sides. Eternal Memory to the fallen.Marc1152 said:
Throw some aliens or gnostic gospels into the story line. They'll show it for sure.William said:Thanks for the reminder.
What's it take to get History or Discovery channel to show a documentary on the Battle's 150th anniversary?
^ THISvamrat said:
In the abstract what you say is true, but that view, in my mind, is merely justificational revisionism. It is difficult to honor the valor of brave soldiers if you can not find some measure of honor in their cause - were the sons and daughters of the Confederacy not able to make such a construct they surely would have despaired all the more at the loss of the ante-bellum South.vamrat said:
What did I lose? I had no family here? Duh. :laugh:podkarpatska said:
Lincoln certainly wasn't a great thing for the south, but his reconstruction ended in 1865 (albiet under Johnson).celticfan1888 said:
I certainly hope so. I think it'll take Missouri & Kansas longer because the war in some sense is still going on, but has taken another form. It's all just stupid and petty. I had to be a part of a team that developed a long-term plan for a small Missouri town, and most of those people didn't want to work with the government because it meant cooperating with the same entity that had their town destroyed 150 years ago. It's stupid.Agabus said:
Davis was the only high ranking Southern leader to be thrown into Prison. He was chained to an Iron Ball which was a bit of a scandal. The rest of them got off.katherineofdixie said:
There was a standing order in the Confederate Army that any White Officer who was captured leading Colored Troops would be considered as leading a servile insurrection and would be executed.katherineofdixie said:
Yeah, come talk to the same folks whose grandparents were slaves in chains and see how concerned they are about poor ol Jeff Daviskatherineofdixie said:
Much as I love arguing with you elsewhere, and as often as we challenge posters for sources and proof, I agree with you here.Marc1152 said:
Do you believe the North was right to invade the South?HabteSelassie said:Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Yeah, come talk to the same folks whose grandparents were slaves in chains and see how concerned they are about poor ol Jeff Daviskatherineofdixie said:
You are right, the past is not dead at all, it is alive and well, and the wounds of slavery and racism are still with us today also, unfortunately some folks are still on the wrong side of the past and history
Its not just a black thing either, because you're right, most folks did not own slaves, and indeed a lot of white folks were adamantly and actively opposed to slavery, and their descendants today still carry their memory, their spirit, and especially their legacy.
Something Confederate sympathizers seem to forget 150 odd years after the fact, they started that war, they continued that war, and they rightfully lost that war because their cause was evil. Do Germans still have pride or commemorations for Nazis? Doubtful. Perhaps Americans should reflect on that, and I say that as an American who is only a generation removed from the South.
stay blessed,
habte selassie
I would suggest a total immersion in American history before you start opining your passions so far removed from the facts. I would start with the works which influenced the Founding Fathers, study the history of the American rebellion against the Crown, the economic differences among the diverse states which were clear at the time, 225 days ago yesterday, of the adoption of the Constitution, the Federalist/anti-Federalist debates, the second American revolution as interpreted by the Jacksonians and so on....celticfan1888 said:
If you believe the Union was and is indivisible (like it says in the Pledge of Allegience I would remind states rights folks) , then yes the North was right. If you believe that the Union is a voluntary association of sovereign entities than no - the North should not have invaded the South. However, that's one of the 'whys' for which the war was fought and one side prevailed.vamrat said:Do you believe the North was right to invade the South?HabteSelassie said:Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Yeah, come talk to the same folks whose grandparents were slaves in chains and see how concerned they are about poor ol Jeff Daviskatherineofdixie said:
You are right, the past is not dead at all, it is alive and well, and the wounds of slavery and racism are still with us today also, unfortunately some folks are still on the wrong side of the past and history
Its not just a black thing either, because you're right, most folks did not own slaves, and indeed a lot of white folks were adamantly and actively opposed to slavery, and their descendants today still carry their memory, their spirit, and especially their legacy.
Something Confederate sympathizers seem to forget 150 odd years after the fact, they started that war, they continued that war, and they rightfully lost that war because their cause was evil. Do Germans still have pride or commemorations for Nazis? Doubtful. Perhaps Americans should reflect on that, and I say that as an American who is only a generation removed from the South.
stay blessed,
habte selassie
Lets see, they attacked an American military instillation, then they refused to muster a call from the Commander and Chief, then they continued to formally secede from the formal government, and all over a perceived fear of encroachment upon their slave economy and their bitterness over an increasing rising tide of Abolitionism in American political mainstream which by definition threatened their entire economy which was based solely on racism and slavery? I'd say yes, the Union was completely justified in invading the South, and if the Confederates hadn't been so damned good at war, then it wouldn't have taken half as long, neither would it have come to the Scorched Earth policies. The South was so thoroughly destroyed because the Union was fed up with so much bloodshed and loss of life. The mentality was simple, if the Confederates want war so bad, we'll give it to em. They did, they got it, and they lost. So its done. To pretend it went any other way is a hopelessly romantic fairy tale. Was Abraham Lincoln a Saint? God know, he was a viscious war-criminal, but that is what happens when one evil has to fight another. Slavery was evil, and no amount of gibberish based analysis can change the reality that the war was over slavery, period. In this regard, it was inevitable. By the way the North was as culpable as the South in slavery, and they weren't exactly heroes. However, the War was indeed a horrifying tragedy on all sides, but again was inevitable.vamrat said:
Abraham Linconl 1864 letter to Albert Hodges
Lincoln should have prayed instead of sending in soldier with bayonets. Our war should not be one of minie balls and Parrott guns but of the Holy Spirit. Didn’t the slaves and the abolitionists know that they would be free in heaven? Lord have mercy that his children are so worked up over jingoism. I know people who have had their country invaded and it is not a pleasant thing. It is nothing but painful and needless BS, something that I wouldn’t wish upon my enemies, let alone my brothers and sisters in the South. Lincoln should not have wished for war but rather through peace through the Holy Spirit. If he had just let them go their own way they would have cooled off and came back as Christian brothers, but instead he sent armed men to do the work he should have done as a Christian and as a leader. The sad things is, things got so bad that the South had to break away from the North, not so much that they did so.HabteSelassie said:
The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892.podkarpatska said:If you believe the Union was and is indivisible (like it says in the Pledge of Allegience I would remind states rights folks) , then yes the North was right. If you believe that the Union is a voluntary association of sovereign entities than no - the North should not have invaded the South. However, that's one of the 'whys' for which the war was fought and one side prevailed.vamrat said:Do you believe the North was right to invade the South?HabteSelassie said:Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Yeah, come talk to the same folks whose grandparents were slaves in chains and see how concerned they are about poor ol Jeff Daviskatherineofdixie said:
You are right, the past is not dead at all, it is alive and well, and the wounds of slavery and racism are still with us today also, unfortunately some folks are still on the wrong side of the past and history
Its not just a black thing either, because you're right, most folks did not own slaves, and indeed a lot of white folks were adamantly and actively opposed to slavery, and their descendants today still carry their memory, their spirit, and especially their legacy.
Something Confederate sympathizers seem to forget 150 odd years after the fact, they started that war, they continued that war, and they rightfully lost that war because their cause was evil. Do Germans still have pride or commemorations for Nazis? Doubtful. Perhaps Americans should reflect on that, and I say that as an American who is only a generation removed from the South.
stay blessed,
habte selassie
I appreciate the way you are subtly mocking my post on the Syrian thread to try to prove a point. Yet again I will reiterate what I told you there, GROW UP PLEASE!vamrat said:
I have every intention of growing up on Friday, but today is not that day. Besides, how old are you to be telling me to grow up? I must know so I can either heed your command or mock it further.HabteSelassie said:Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
I appreciate the way you are subtly mocking my post on the Syrian thread to try to prove a point. Yet again I will reiterate what I told you there, GROW UP PLEASE!vamrat said:
I too wish it had only come down to prayer, but consistently the Confederacy felt differently about the matter. Its not about jingoism, slavery is as evil as any other, and inevitably too many Northerners were clearly willing to fight over it. Our country spent almost a hundred years at the political and economic bargaining table about slavery, at the end of all that, slavery was as thoroughly entrenched in the Southern mind as ever. That is why the war was inevitable then, because the North would finally push to stop slavery and the South clearly pushed pack.
Maybe the Confederates shouldn't have picked the fight in the first place? Clearly the course of events revealed they bit off more than they could chew
The Confederacy was as naive as John Brown, whereas Brown thought that Abolitionists would rise up in a huge war that never materialized, the Confederates thought that most Northerners were both racist enough and complicit enough economically in the slave system not to support the War and instead to rise up and support the Confederate cause. What they underestimated is that economic principles of market-capitalism being more efficient than slavery are what pushed Northern businesses away from the slave-system and therefore in support of the War. Further, Europe was hypocritically working against slavery, so the deck was stacked against the Confederates since the 1850s even!
stay blessed,
habte selassie
