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Constantine the Greek

Tzimis

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biro said:
Even if the "Romans" repent and ask to become Orthodox tomorrow, he still wouldn't like them.

Thanks for being The Most Orthodox Person in the World. We really couldn't make it without you.
We Greeks were the last romans as far as im concerned. 
 

Mor Ephrem

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Tzimis said:
biro said:
Even if the "Romans" repent and ask to become Orthodox tomorrow, he still wouldn't like them.

Thanks for being The Most Orthodox Person in the World. We really couldn't make it without you.
We Greeks were the last romans as far as im concerned.
Thankfully it all came to an end.
 

Tzimis

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Mor Ephrem said:
Tzimis said:
biro said:
Even if the "Romans" repent and ask to become Orthodox tomorrow, he still wouldn't like them.

Thanks for being The Most Orthodox Person in the World. We really couldn't make it without you.
We Greeks were the last romans as far as im concerned.
Thankfully it all came to an end.
Not according to Daniels prophecy.
 

Iconodule

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True Christian Romans didn’t call themselves Greeks.
 

Tzimis

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Iconodule said:
True Christian Romans didn’t call themselves Greeks.
What did they speak though?
 

Iconodule

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Tzimis

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Iconodule said:
Tzimis said:
Iconodule said:
True Christian Romans didn’t call themselves Greeks.
What did they speak though?
Are you English?
Americans speak English but, are all immigrants.  What are you getting at? Constantine defeated the western powers and transfered the empire east. It was there for 1200 years. Want a history lesson?
 

Mor Ephrem

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Tzimis said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Tzimis said:
biro said:
Even if the "Romans" repent and ask to become Orthodox tomorrow, he still wouldn't like them.

Thanks for being The Most Orthodox Person in the World. We really couldn't make it without you.
We Greeks were the last romans as far as im concerned.
Thankfully it all came to an end.
Not according to Daniels prophecy.
What prophecy?
 

Tzimis

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Mor Ephrem said:
Iconodule said:
True Christian Romans didn’t call themselves Greeks.
+1
Thats correct. They were Hellenic none the less.  Greek speaking and that also correlates with scripture.  Jew nore greek. Remember that? Plus 90 percent of new testament scripture epistles are writen to greek inhabitants. 
Thessalonians,  Corinth,  Ephesus,  . Remember those?
 

Volnutt

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Tzimis said:
Iconodule said:
Tzimis said:
Iconodule said:
True Christian Romans didn’t call themselves Greeks.
What did they speak though?
Are you English?
Americans speak English but, are all immigrants.  What are you getting at? Constantine defeated the western powers and transfered the empire east. It was there for 1200 years. Want a history lesson?
And Constantine was an Italo-Romanian, not a Greek.

EDIT: My mistake, he was half-Greek.
 

biro

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Tzimis said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Iconodule said:
True Christian Romans didn’t call themselves Greeks.
+1
Thats correct. They were Hellenic none the less.  Greek speaking and that also correlates with scripture.  Jew nore greek. Remember that? Plus 90 percent of new testament scripture epistles are writen to greek inhabitants. 
Thessalonians,  Corinth,  Ephesus,  . Remember those?
Of course they were Greek.

They were conquered by the Roman empire. That's why they call themselves Romans.

They were no more ethnically Roman than a Frenchman is.

Rome is the capital of Italy.
 

Mor Ephrem

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Tzimis said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Iconodule said:
True Christian Romans didn’t call themselves Greeks.
+1
Thats correct. They were Hellenic none the less.  Greek speaking and that also correlates with scripture.  Jew nore greek. Remember that? Plus 90 percent of new testament scripture epistles are writen to greek inhabitants. 
Thessalonians,  Corinth,  Ephesus,  . Remember those?
And Jesus spoke Aramaic.
 

Tzimis

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Mor Ephrem said:
Tzimis said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Iconodule said:
True Christian Romans didn’t call themselves Greeks.
+1
Thats correct. They were Hellenic none the less.  Greek speaking and that also correlates with scripture.  Jew nore greek. Remember that? Plus 90 percent of new testament scripture epistles are writen to greek inhabitants. 
Thessalonians,  Corinth,  Ephesus,  . Remember those?
And Jesus spoke Aramaic.
The epistles were writen in greek though. Not Aramaic.  Whats your point?
 

Tzimis

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biro said:
Tzimis said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Iconodule said:
True Christian Romans didn’t call themselves Greeks.
+1
Thats correct. They were Hellenic none the less.  Greek speaking and that also correlates with scripture.  Jew nore greek. Remember that? Plus 90 percent of new testament scripture epistles are writen to greek inhabitants. 
Thessalonians,  Corinth,  Ephesus,  . Remember those?
Of course they were Greek.

They were conquered by the Roman empire. That's why they call themselves Romans.

They were no more ethnically Roman than a Frenchman is.

Rome is the capital of Italy.
Its the other way around.  The roman Empire was conquered by Greeks. If you don't believe me look at the historical record of emperors.
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
Tzimis said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Tzimis said:
biro said:
Even if the "Romans" repent and ask to become Orthodox tomorrow, he still wouldn't like them.

Thanks for being The Most Orthodox Person in the World. We really couldn't make it without you.
We Greeks were the last romans as far as im concerned.
Thankfully it all came to an end.
Not according to Daniels prophecy.
What prophecy?
He's referring to the prophecy pertaining to the statue and its figuration as four empires in world history before the end of days (Daniel 2). It's been pretty popular in Christian exegesis since antiquity and has spawned some rather interesting stuff, if only for purposes of personal curiosity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_kingdoms_of_Daniel

On a quite different note and to all here in general, let's not be coy. Tzimis is just trying to fiddle the diddle of his Greek nationalism.
 

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Tzimis said:
Iconodule said:
True Christian Romans didn’t call themselves Greeks.
What did they speak though?
They spoke Ρωμαϊκά. Indeed, even in English, Romaic was once a term for Demotic Greek.
 

Volnutt

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Tzimis said:
biro said:
Tzimis said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Iconodule said:
True Christian Romans didn’t call themselves Greeks.
+1
Thats correct. They were Hellenic none the less.  Greek speaking and that also correlates with scripture.  Jew nore greek. Remember that? Plus 90 percent of new testament scripture epistles are writen to greek inhabitants. 
Thessalonians,  Corinth,  Ephesus,  . Remember those?
Of course they were Greek.

They were conquered by the Roman empire. That's why they call themselves Romans.

They were no more ethnically Roman than a Frenchman is.

Rome is the capital of Italy.
Its the other way around.  The roman Empire was conquered by Greeks. If you don't believe me look at the historical record of emperors.
That's like saying that America is really Scotland or Germany, though. You can't just assume that they all thought of themselves as first and foremost Greek, as opposed to Roman.
 

Mor Ephrem

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Tzimis said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Tzimis said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Iconodule said:
True Christian Romans didn’t call themselves Greeks.
+1
Thats correct. They were Hellenic none the less.  Greek speaking and that also correlates with scripture.  Jew nore greek. Remember that? Plus 90 percent of new testament scripture epistles are writen to greek inhabitants. 
Thessalonians,  Corinth,  Ephesus,  . Remember those?
And Jesus spoke Aramaic.
The epistles were writen in greek though. Not Aramaic.  Whats your point?
Rohzek said:
Tzimis is just trying to fiddle the diddle of his Greek nationalism.
 

Iconodule

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Tzimis said:
Iconodule said:
Tzimis said:
Iconodule said:
True Christian Romans didn’t call themselves Greeks.
What did they speak though?
Are you English?
Americans speak English but, are all immigrants.  What are you getting at? Constantine defeated the western powers and transfered the empire east. It was there for 1200 years. Want a history lesson?
The Easy included Syriacs, Armenians, Slavs, Arabs, etc. These people speaking Greek didn’t make them “Greek”.
 

Iconodule

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biro said:
Tzimis said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Iconodule said:
True Christian Romans didn’t call themselves Greeks.
+1
Thats correct. They were Hellenic none the less.  Greek speaking and that also correlates with scripture.  Jew nore greek. Remember that? Plus 90 percent of new testament scripture epistles are writen to greek inhabitants. 
Thessalonians,  Corinth,  Ephesus,  . Remember those?
Of course they were Greek.

They were conquered by the Roman empire. That's why they call themselves Romans.

They were no more ethnically Roman than a Frenchman is.

Rome is the capital of Italy.
There is no Roman ethnicity. You are in bad need of some remedial history.
 

Tzimis

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Iconodule said:
Tzimis said:
Iconodule said:
Tzimis said:
Iconodule said:
True Christian Romans didn’t call themselves Greeks.
What did they speak though?
Are you English?
Americans speak English but, are all immigrants.  What are you getting at? Constantine defeated the western powers and transfered the empire east. It was there for 1200 years. Want a history lesson?
The Easy included Syriacs, Armenians, Slavs, Arabs, etc. These people speaking Greek didn’t make them “Greek”.
The Greeks expanded into these lands during Alexanders conquest. Sure the weren't Greek genetically but, Culturally influenced by the Greeks. Alexanders empire later contracted with Rome filling the void.
 

Iconodule

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Cultural diffusion. It tends to happen. Still doesn't help modern ethno-nationalist fantasies.
 

Tzimis

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Rohzek said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Tzimis said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Tzimis said:
biro said:
Even if the "Romans" repent and ask to become Orthodox tomorrow, he still wouldn't like them.

Thanks for being The Most Orthodox Person in the World. We really couldn't make it without you.
We Greeks were the last romans as far as im concerned.
Thankfully it all came to an end.
Not according to Daniels prophecy.
What prophecy?
He's referring to the prophecy pertaining to the statue and its figuration as four empires in world history before the end of days (Daniel 2). It's been pretty popular in Christian exegesis since antiquity and has spawned some rather interesting stuff, if only for purposes of personal curiosity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_kingdoms_of_Daniel

On a quite different note and to all here in general, let's not be coy. Tzimis is just trying to fiddle the diddle of his Greek nationalism.

I'm just defending what others are trying to erase.  ;)
 

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And all this arguing about ethnicity and language proves exactly why the Orthodox cannot unite as one American Orthodox Church. And it has nothing at all to do with the OP.
 

Iconodule

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Right, obscure internet arguments really prove that sort of thing.
 

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Tzimis said:
Rohzek said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Tzimis said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Tzimis said:
biro said:
Even if the "Romans" repent and ask to become Orthodox tomorrow, he still wouldn't like them.

Thanks for being The Most Orthodox Person in the World. We really couldn't make it without you.
We Greeks were the last romans as far as im concerned.
Thankfully it all came to an end.
Not according to Daniels prophecy.
What prophecy?
He's referring to the prophecy pertaining to the statue and its figuration as four empires in world history before the end of days (Daniel 2). It's been pretty popular in Christian exegesis since antiquity and has spawned some rather interesting stuff, if only for purposes of personal curiosity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_kingdoms_of_Daniel

On a quite different note and to all here in general, let's not be coy. Tzimis is just trying to fiddle the diddle of his Greek nationalism.

I'm just defending what others are trying to erase.  ;)
Lemme know how that works for you when you shoot yourself in the eye.
 

biro

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CarolS said:
And all this arguing about ethnicity and language proves exactly why the Orthodox cannot unite as one American Orthodox Church. And it has nothing at all to do with the OP.
True. I'm sorry about that.
 

biro

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Iconodule:

Yes, there is.

The citizens of the Roman Republic, if you dug them up, could tell you about that.
 

biro

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Either Fr. Adrian Fortescue or Michael Davies, I forgot whom, once said something about "the fantasies of the Greeks."

Still seems true today.

Also, Iconodule, if there is 'no Roman ethnicity,' as you claim, then Greeks cannot be Romans.
 

Iconodule

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biro said:
Iconodule:

Yes, there is.

The citizens of the Roman Republic, if you dug them up, could tell you about that.
The citizens of the Roman Republic included several different cultural groups, so you’re still wrong. You don’t seem to understand how empires work.

biro said:
Either Fr. Adrian Fortescue or Michael Davies, I forgot whom, once said something about "the fantasies of the Greeks."

Still seems true today.

Also, Iconodule, if there is 'no Roman ethnicity,' as you claim, then Greeks cannot be Romans.
On the contrary, there is no Roman ethnicity, therefore anyone could be Romans. To be Roman was to adapt Roman civilization, customs, etc.- a category that shifted and expanded as Roman citizenship expanded. “Greeks” however meant pagans in Christian Roman times so that Christian Romans, even if speaking Greek, would not call themselves Greeks. Today’s Greeks (among other people) could rightly be said to continue Roman culture even if modern nationalism has somewhat obscured that.
 

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Iconodule said:
biro said:
Iconodule:

Yes, there is.

The citizens of the Roman Republic, if you dug them up, could tell you about that.
The citizens of the Roman Republic included several different cultural groups, so you’re still wrong. You don’t seem to understand how empires work.

biro said:
Either Fr. Adrian Fortescue or Michael Davies, I forgot whom, once said something about "the fantasies of the Greeks."

Still seems true today.

Also, Iconodule, if there is 'no Roman ethnicity,' as you claim, then Greeks cannot be Romans.
On the contrary, there is no Roman ethnicity, therefore anyone could be Romans. To be Roman was to adapt Roman civilization, customs, etc.- a category that shifted and expanded as Roman citizenship expanded. “Greeks” however meant pagans in Christian Roman times so that Christian Romans, even if speaking Greek, would not call themselves Greeks. Today’s Greeks (among other people) could rightly be said to continue Roman culture even if modern nationalism has somewhat obscured that.
So, to what extent, if any, could an Italian living on the peninsula itself be called "ethnically" Roman? I think that's what biro's getting at.

You would say he was an ethnic Italian who was also a Roman, right?
 

Iconodule

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I don’t know what he wants to be called but the whole idea of Romanness, even in the days of the Republic, did not entail some racial group but a political/ civilizational entity. If you dug a citizen up as biro suggests and asked him, “what’s your ethnicity” he’d probably be confused as to what you meant. Tzimis and biro are making the same error of conflating Romanness with an ethnic group.
 

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Iconodule said:
I don’t know what he wants to be called but the whole idea of Romanness, even in the days of the Republic, did not entail some racial group but a political/ civilizational entity. If you dug a citizen up as biro suggests and asked him, “what’s your ethnicity” he’d probably be confused as to what you meant. Tzimis and biro are making the same error of conflating Romanness with an ethnic group.
    Rome as a form of governance started in the west. Constantine shifted that governance East when he defeated the western emperor. Yet he kept the system.
That doesn't take away from the fact that DNA is involved. The Latin west weren't Greeks. Modern dna samples can prove that. The inhabitants of new Rome were Greek though. The Empire stretched out beyond the customary Greek and Italian lands and included other ethnicities.
  It would be foolish to say that certain ethnicities didnt play a dominant role in the empire.
 

Iconodule

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Right, like Armenians.
 

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Iconodule said:
Right, like Armenians.
You are aware that the RCC doesn't even list St. Constantine as one of there saints because they consider what he did treasonous.
 

Iconodule

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Tzimis said:
Iconodule said:
Right, like Armenians.
You are aware that the RCC doesn't even list St. Constantine as one of there saints because they consider what he did treasonous.
You are aware that in Aztec culture presenting a gal with a bowl of chocolate could be considered a marriage proposal.
 

biro

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You mean this one?

https://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=2731
 

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Tzimis said:
Iconodule said:
Right, like Armenians.
You are aware that the RCC doesn't even list St. Constantine as one of there saints because they consider what he did treasonous.
Wrong.
 

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http://www.boston-catholic-journal.com/roman-martrylogy-in-english/roman-martyrology-may-in-english.htm#May_21st

He isn't listed on the ROMAN MARTYROLOGY.
 
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