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Conversions in Philipines

sohma_hatori

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There really seems to be a problem between the EP and the Antiochian Orthodox church's presence in the Philippines. A friend of mine, a former priest of the Charismatic Episcopal Church (CEC) in the Southern Luzon area (Bicol region) and now coordinator for missions in our province recently alerted me, through SMS, of a definite warning supposedly issued by Bp. Nectarios to all the  EP priests that the Antiochian orthodox church in the Philippines is uncanonical. This is a sad event if true.anybody can verify this, please?
Well, I am an Antiochian Orthodox Christian in the Philippines, and we are certainly NOT uncanonical!  :mad:
His Eminence Metropolitan Saliba, is a canonical heirarch, appointed by His Holiness Ignatius IV to  sheperd the growing flock here in the Philippines, so undoubtedly, our presence here is canonical. The information I got, from the EP priest in Koronadal, South Cotabato, suggest the opposite; the EP now considers us canonical, and that a spirit of cooperation is invoked in order to bring more Filipinos to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, the Vineyard of Christ.
Im very happy with the developments, and I agree that instead of bickering we should cooperate. Protest and complaints aimed at ruining the progress within the Antiochian vicariate, have wounded us Orthodox Christians very much, but when His Eminence Saliba came to visit us, we were renewed with a new hope, because we know, that people who wish to ruin the church, will never succed because the Truth is on our side, God is with us!
We have faced much persecution, from both protestants and Roman Catholics. Some of our members have been beaten up, mocked and insulted publicly. Some residents in the site of our communty even burned the foundation of the Church we were building! (This is in our urban poor communties in Davao).. Most of my brothers and sisters there are very poor, and can barely make ends meet, and other "Christians"  :mad:, are making things worse for us. Even our priests and leaders are living in poverty!  :'( Im trying my best to get as much aid as I can, by giving out cathecism or Theological materials I got from the net, and passing it to them, (its all a kid like me can do)..
It is my heartfelt wish,that our agreement of cooperation with the EP, will not only stay in words, but will translate itself into genuine action on both sides. We need their prayers more than ever, as we are always praying for the succes of our EP brothers!  :)
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, Have Mercy on us!

By the way, philip xavier, are you a cathecumen?  ;D
 

philip xavier

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By the way, philip xavier, are you a cathecumen?  ;D
[/quote]

well not as of this moment. in my heart i'm orthodox.i still belong to what orthodox christians would call uncanonical convergence churches.I started being an inquirer in the EP last year but it did not flourish for some reason but the call of God to a journey home to orthodoxy remains.

Im glad to learn that the zeal for the house of God burns brightly in your heart and you defend it like a man on fire.maybe if you belonged to the apostolic times, you would embrace martyrdom like the apostles of old.
I intended no malice when i posted that question. I just wanted to clarify the issue because my friend, who belong to the EP,indeed  made such uncharitable claim. i would like to verify it directly from an antiochian orthodox christian in the philippines and im glad you responded with fire and fervor. 

keep the faith...
 

sohma_hatori

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philip xavier said:
well not as of this moment. in my heart i'm orthodox.i still belong to what orthodox christians would call uncanonical convergence churches.I started being an inquirer in the EP last year but it did not flourish for some reason but the call of God to a journey home to orthodoxy remains.

Im glad to learn that the zeal for the house of God burns brightly in your heart and you defend it like a man on fire.maybe if you belonged to the apostolic times, you would embrace martyrdom like the apostles of old.
I intended no malice when i posted that question. I just wanted to clarify the issue because my friend, who belong to the EP,indeed  made such uncharitable claim. i would like to verify it directly from an antiochian orthodox christian in the philippines and im glad you responded with fire and fervor. 

keep the faith...
Brother, I hope you persevere!
During my times as an inquirer of the faith, I BARELY had any contact with Orthodox Christians who live in the Philippines, and for a time, I did'nt even know the EP was here!  ;D
But my friends in this site help me to have contact with them, but when I tried to make contact , their was almost no response. And I understand why, my place is remote and unknown to most Manilenyos, Im still a student too, so my chances to contact them or speak to them in person are so thin. I was sad, but I continued anyway. I talked about Orthodoxy with my friends, and I was happy enough to bring my faith to my bestfriend, who is a devout Roman Catholic.  ;D
Once again, I (with my bestfriend this time), tried to make contact with the EP , and this time we got a response!  :laugh:, Fr. Daclan, the priest in Cotabato, welcomed us, and on one of my trips dring the NSPC (National School's Press Conference), I was able to meet with him, and to speak with other Orthodox Christian brothers.
Sadly, though, there was not enough resources and people to make a mission inmy hometown about 700+ kilometers away from him, so my call to the Church was once again delayed. A few months later, my bestfriend and I found out that Antiochian missionaries are here in Davao! We sent SMS messages to them asking for info and stuff, but they suggested that a priest will come to OUR place! And we were so thrilled! When Fr. Aniceto came to my hometown Butuan, he talked of plans to expand the missions of the Church, and to give what me and friend had been most eager to receive, our chrismation, the seal of the Holy Spirit!  :)
Im glad my perseverance has paid off! I have been chrismated and am doing my best to live the faith and call others to the Church. And im very glad that God called me in my youth so tat he could use my youthful energy to become an engine of service to His Church!

Brother, I hope you will one day be called! Keep up the Good fight! My prayers are with you..

Please pray for me as well..


 

Aftimios

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Dear Orthodox Brethren and friends,
I would like to share  some of the photos from the Antiochian Orthodox Vicariate of Manila.



[size=10pt]Chrismation of Filipino converts[/size]





[size=10pt]The Divine Liturgy[/size]





[size=10pt]Ordination of Deacons and Subdeacons (Vicariate of Manila) [/size]






[size=10pt]Ordination of Priests (Vicariate of Manila)[/size]




[size=10pt]Filipino Syndesmos[/size]



 

yochanan

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Hehe.. too bad I wasn't chrismated with them in Davao.. ka sayang uie!!!
It was finals week when I heard about the Chrismation from Sohma_Hatori..

Hey, I heard about conflicts between the Greeks and the Antiochians, what's with the fuss?
Can't just one jurisdiction rule? Can't they agree amongst themselves?
 

yochanan

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In the Philippines there is a conflict whether to which Jurisdiction the Philippines is in.. Greek or Antiochian?
Is it possible for one country to have two jurisdictions?
 

prodromas

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yochanan said:
In the Philippines there is a conflict whether to which Jurisdiction the Philippines is in.. Greek or Antiochian?
Is it possible for one country to have two jurisdictions?
haha good statement brother. Although this is the exact problem countries like America, Australia and England are facing!
 

ozgeorge

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yochanan said:
In the Philippines there is a conflict whether to which Jurisdiction the Philippines is in.. Greek or Antiochian?
I see what you mean now. I got confused because it is not between "Greek" and "Antiochian", but between "The Ecumenical Patriarchate" and "The Patriarchate of Antioch". You need to be careful with the use of the word "Greek", particularly in this case, since the official title of the Patriarchate of Antioch is "The Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch and All the East" (see their official website here: http://www.antiochpat.org/english/sitefiles/ )

yochanan said:
Is it possible for one country to have two jurisdictions?
Yes, it is possible. The Church is not jurisdictionally divided by national borders, but has it's own geographical borders. Greece is an example of this. The Southern part of Greece is under the Jurisdiction of the Church of Greece, while the middle and northern parts of Greece along with the Islands of Greece are under the jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarchate. This is perfectly Canonical because no two Bishops from the different jurisdictions have jurisdiction over the same geographical area.
In countries which are not traditionally Orthodox, we have the problem of different jurisdictions covering the same geographical area. For example, the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia is under the Ecumenical Patriarchate and has it's own Archbishop, while the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia and New Zealand (and who recently added "and the Phillipines" to their title) has it's own Archbishop who covers the same geographical area. Strictly speaking, this is not canonical- there should be one Bishop in a city, not two. This problem exists also in the USA and the UK, and will eventually require a Pan-Orthodox Synod to resolve it. In the meantime, we should try to get on with one another and remember that we are one in Christ and all partakers in His Body and Blood.
 

Aftimios

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philip xavier

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great photos, especialy the complete one on the tube.the Lord has done great things for the orthodox church in the philippines. I hope the davao vicariate can upload some of their photos too. great news indeed. Congratulations!!
 
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It seems to me that the Novus Ordo is the liturgy of the Antiochenes in the Philippines. Will this be permanent, or will there be an eventual shift to the Byzantine Rite?
 

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filipinopilgrim said:
It seems to me that the Novus Ordo is the liturgy of the Antiochenes in the Philippines. Will this be permanent, or will there be an eventual shift to the Byzantine Rite?
It appears so! But I haven't witnessed it myself so lets just say it is a "modified" Novus Ordo Rite of the Roman Catholic Mass they are using for their Sunday Divine Liturgy (please refer to the photos generously supplied by Aftimios)

With regards to your second question, please read Sohma_hatori's previous post below:

sohma_hatori said:
To Filipiniana and ozgeorge

To my knowledge, it wasHis Eminence who probably allowed them to use the modified rite. When the Archbishop comes on his visits here, he celebrates liturgy in according to St. John Chrysostom. Fr. Aniceto and the other priests said that, all the parishes will soon adopt the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, as they said, and i qoute, "in due time".

I do hope that this uncanonical rite, a liturgical anomaly,  will soon cease and the  Filipino "Antiochenes" will observe the canonical Liturgies (Western Rite or Byzantine etc.) of the Orthodox Church. As mentioned earlier, the local Roman Catholic faithful couldn't hardly notice the difference at all  and this is not a mere allegation. All you have to do is to  see the vestments worn by the "Antiochene" Orthodox priests in the attached photographs. Not only that, they sing contemporary Roman Catholic hymns of the Novus Ordo Mass in their Liturgy! Sohma_hatori and GodIsGoodHeSavesMe can verify that fact.

Listen to Mr ozgeorge's observation:

ozgeorge said:
So the issue, I understand, is not simply that it is Western Rite, but rather, that it appears deceptive in a predominantly Roman Catholic country to have an Orthodox Church which looks exactly like a Roman Catholic Church......I think  this needs to be made clear to His Eminence, Metropolitan Archbishop Paul Saliba.
I say AMEN to that!
 

ozgeorge

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filipiniana said:
Listen to Mr ozgeorge's observation:
Which actually predates sohma_hatori's post which explains that:

sohma_hatori said:
all the parishes will soon adopt the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, as they said, and i qoute, "in due time".
Clearly the adapted Rite is only temporary, so I don't think there's any reason for concern at this stage.
Things happen slowly in the Orthodox Church, but we should all be running towards salvation. Metropolitan Paul has simply built a temporary bridge to help get some people across quickly.
 

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As I saw in the pics Aftimios posted, HE Paul performed collective ordination? How it's possible ? How to prove that such "ordination" is valid?
And the "ad populum" manner of the "liturgy" is harshly against the Holy Tradition. How can HE Paul justify it?
 
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One of the reasons why I joined and embraced Orthodoxy is because of its strict adherence to its canons, a Church governed by law, of tradition… which makes it different from other confession of faith.

If somebody will tell me that it is for the sake of economia why such ordinations were made (aside from the fact that HE Paul ignores the presence of EP in the Philippines) and why the Evangelicals were accommodated, then who is uncanonical here? Is it the one who was accepted or the one who accept?

How can we possibly say that Orthodoxy is truly being planted in the Philippine Islands if by that act of acceptance and ordination, which were clearly defined in the canons, were violated? If from the very start a lot of rubrics and protocols were compromised just to say that “Hey, another history in the archdiocese, thousands (as they claimed) were received in the Mother Church!” What kind of Church are we then? What makes us different from established uncanonical orthodox catholic church here?

We are tired of Roman Catholicism, of Protentism… reason we came to Orthodoxy to quench that thirst for Truth, not just a part of it. We want to have a Hierarch worthy of commemoration… “…teaching the word of truth” as we pray in the Divine Liturgy.
 

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Elpidophoros said:
As I saw in the pics Aftimios posted, HE Paul performed collective ordination? How it's possible ? How to prove that such "ordination" is valid? And the "ad populum" manner of the "liturgy" is harshly against the Holy Tradition. How can HE Paul justify it?
Yes Elpidophoros, you can see it clearly  on the attached photo stills and from the video presentation posted at You Tube. Likewise, you can see a short article about the "collective ordination" from their official website which reads (and I quote):

"His Eminence Metropolitan Archbishop Paul Saliba recently visited the Philippines on September 28th 2008. The purpose of this visit was to ordain a number of candidates to the priesthood and diaconate. He ordained seventeen priests and ten deacons."

Source: Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of Australia (click)

With regards to the canonicality or legitimacy of such ordination let them (i.e., the Antiochenes) prove it themselves. Were the clergies under the EP aware of these ordinations?  Were they even informed or invited?  I guess "Las Islas Filipinas" can answer these questions

ozgeorge said:
Clearly the adapted Rite is only temporary, so I don't think there's any reason for concern at this stage.
Thus, you ignore once again  (and continually IGNORE) the concerns of your Filipino Orthodox brethren under the EP (please read "Las Islas Filipinas'" latest post and  please do not play deaf and dumb to these concerns).


ozgeorge said:
Things happen slowly in the Orthodox Church, but we should all be running towards salvation. Metropolitan Paul has simply built a temporary bridge to help get some people across quickly.
Even at the expense of violating the holy canons of the Orthodox Church as the Orthodox faithful under the EP has been trying to point out all this time?  So how long will you continually ignore the legitimate concerns and protestations of your canonical Orthodox brethren under the EP in the Philippines?




 

ialmisry

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filipiniana said:
Elpidophoros said:
As I saw in the pics Aftimios posted, HE Paul performed collective ordination? How it's possible ? How to prove that such "ordination" is valid? And the "ad populum" manner of the "liturgy" is harshly against the Holy Tradition. How can HE Paul justify it?
Yes Elpidophoros, you can see it clearly  on the attached photo stills and from the video presentation posted at You Tube. Likewise, you can see a short article about the "collective ordination" from their official website which reads (and I quote):

"His Eminence Metropolitan Archbishop Paul Saliba recently visited the Philippines on September 28th 2008. The purpose of this visit was to ordain a number of candidates to the priesthood and diaconate. He ordained seventeen priests and ten deacons."

Source: Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of Australia (click)

With regards to the canonicality or legitimacy of such ordination let them (i.e., the Antiochenes) prove it themselves.
Seven deacons were ordained at the creation of the diaconate in Acts, and Barnabas and Paul were ordained together.  Such mass ordinations are not outside economy.

Were the clergies under the EP aware of these ordinations?  Were they even informed or invited?  I guess "Las Islas Filipinas" can answer these questions
Don't know.  Given the EP's antics in other areas (setting up shop in Japan, despite an autonomous Church existing there, dismembering the Swedish Church into ethnic "jurisdictions," let alone squashing Ligonier etc), I'm not sure that it should be much of an issue, as the first priest, bishop and parishes that we know of in the Phillipines were PoM (the claims of earlier Greek settlers is like the claim that Orthodoxy in America dates to New Smyrna in Florida.  Was just there, and the momunent was at pains to state that the settlement had no religious significance and was aggresively secular and Hellenic, not Greek).

ozgeorge said:
Clearly the adapted Rite is only temporary, so I don't think there's any reason for concern at this stage.
Thus, you ignore once again  (and continually IGNORE) the concerns of your Filipino Orthodox brethren under the EP (please read "Las Islas Filipinas'" latest post and  please do not play deaf and dumb to these concerns).
What exactly are those concerns?


ozgeorge said:
Things happen slowly in the Orthodox Church, but we should all be running towards salvation. Metropolitan Paul has simply built a temporary bridge to help get some people across quickly.
Even at the expense of violating the holy canons of the Orthodox Church as the Orthodox faithful under the EP has been trying to point out all this time?  So how long will you continually ignore the legitimate concerns and protestations of your canonical Orthodox brethren under the EP in the Philippines?
For one thing, as long as the EP keeps insisting on its own interpretation of Canon 28 of Chalcedon.

That being said, if the groups are using NO rites, there should have been an approval of said rites, with an eye towards to the DL of St. Gregory or St. Tikhon.  But I'm not there, and I"m not the pastor responsible.  If it is anything like what went on in the States, then there should be no fears.
 

filipiniana

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Elpidophoros said:
As I saw in the pics Aftimios posted, HE Paul performed collective ordination? How it's possible ? How to prove that such "ordination" is valid?  And the "ad populum" manner of the "liturgy" is harshly against the Holy Tradition. How can HE Paul justify it?
With regards to "collective" or "multiple" ordination, please read below:


"d) Acts 13:3. The note supports multiple ordination. This practice has been forbidden in the Orthodox Church for many centuries, so there is no reason whatsoever to mention it, unless it is to justify the extreme irregularity of performing such ordinations when the so-called "Evangelical Orthodox" were received into the Antiochian Church."


Review of the Orthodox Study Bible
by Priest Seraphim Johnson


Source: http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/phronema/review_osb2.aspx

Antiochenes again are the culprits??? :'(
 

Elpidophoros

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Seven deacons were ordained at the creation of the diaconate in Acts, and Barnabas and Paul were ordained together.  Such mass ordinations are not outside economy.
There is no any kind of Agion Myron be mentioned in Agia Graphe, so it's possible today any priest use hand-laying instead Myron in chrismation??

Also,there was no epiklesis in the Mystic Supper;how about if today any priest omit it in DL?

I can not ensure such ordination is invalid,but at least is high-doubtful.
 

ialmisry

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filipiniana said:
Elpidophoros said:
As I saw in the pics Aftimios posted, HE Paul performed collective ordination? How it's possible ? How to prove that such "ordination" is valid?  And the "ad populum" manner of the "liturgy" is harshly against the Holy Tradition. How can HE Paul justify it?
With regards to "collective" or "multiple" ordination, please read below:


"d) Acts 13:3. The note supports multiple ordination. This practice has been forbidden in the Orthodox Church for many centuries, so there is no reason whatsoever to mention it, unless it is to justify the extreme irregularity of performing such ordinations when the so-called "Evangelical Orthodox" were received into the Antiochian Church."


Review of the Orthodox Study Bible
by Priest Seraphim Johnson


Source: http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/phronema/review_osb2.aspx

Antiochenes again are the culprits??? :'(
Or the ethnocentric ghetto?

I've come across this silly (very silly and petty in many ways) review of the OSB. In many ways it reflects the mindset of keeping a private family garden rather than going out in the fields and recruiting workers.

The reviews critique of the mass ordinations I believe is lost in the fruits of those ordinations.

Elpidophoros said:
Seven deacons were ordained at the creation of the diaconate in Acts, and Barnabas and Paul were ordained together.  Such mass ordinations are not outside economy.
There is no any kind of Agion Myron
You mean Holy Myron.

be mentioned in Agia Graphe,
You mean Holy Scripture.

so it's possible today any priest use hand-laying instead Myron in chrismation??
No, as the oil is the hand-laying of the BISHOP, not the priest.  Your question might be more correct to ask if the bishop can confirm by laying on of hands.  And yes, in emergencies at least, I think it could.

Also,there was no epiklesis in the Mystic Supper;how about if today any priest omit it in DL?
It there is a priest consubstantial with the Spirit, so that he (or He) might say "This is" and it will be as it was in Genesis at His command, by all means....

I can not ensure such ordination is invalid,but at least is high-doubtful.
No doubt at all.  Certainly not as much as single bishops ordaining a bishop (which I think the argument can be made for economy), which the cited web site OKs for certain groups (i.e. Old Calendarists).
 

filipiniana

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ialmisry said:
filipiniana said:
With regards to "collective" or "multiple" ordination, please read below:


"d) Acts 13:3. The note supports multiple ordination. This practice has been forbidden in the Orthodox Church for many centuries, so there is no reason whatsoever to mention it, unless it is to justify the extreme irregularity of performing such ordinations when the so-called "Evangelical Orthodox" were received into the Antiochian Church."


Review of the Orthodox Study Bible
by Priest Seraphim Johnson

Source: http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/phronema/review_osb2.aspx

Antiochenes again are the culprits??? :'(
Or the ethnocentric ghetto?

I've come across this silly (very silly and petty in many ways) review of the OSB. In many ways it reflects the mindset of keeping a private family garden rather than going out in the fields and recruiting workers.

The reviews critique of the mass ordinations I believe is lost in the fruits of those ordinations.
Thanks for reminding us about the BEN LOMOND TRAGEDY . This tragedy is one those "fruits" of multiple or "mass ordinations". Thats what you get from compromising, disregarding and violating the canons of the Orthodox Church.

 

ialmisry

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filipiniana said:
ialmisry said:
filipiniana said:
With regards to "collective" or "multiple" ordination, please read below:


"d) Acts 13:3. The note supports multiple ordination. This practice has been forbidden in the Orthodox Church for many centuries, so there is no reason whatsoever to mention it, unless it is to justify the extreme irregularity of performing such ordinations when the so-called "Evangelical Orthodox" were received into the Antiochian Church."


Review of the Orthodox Study Bible
by Priest Seraphim Johnson

Source: http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/phronema/review_osb2.aspx

Antiochenes again are the culprits??? :'(
Or the ethnocentric ghetto?

I've come across this silly (very silly and petty in many ways) review of the OSB. In many ways it reflects the mindset of keeping a private family garden rather than going out in the fields and recruiting workers.

The reviews critique of the mass ordinations I believe is lost in the fruits of those ordinations.
Thanks for reminding us about the BEN LOMOND TRAGEDY . This tragedy is one those "fruits" of multiple or "mass ordinations". Thats what you get from compromising, disregarding and violating the canons of the Orthodox Church.
LOL.  I was wondering how long it would be before someone brought up BL.

So, pray tell: how did mass ordinations lead to the Ben Lomond Tragedy?  Because I can point to far worse in jurisdictions who never in living memory conducted mass ordinations, including the EP.
 
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... so just because the other do it... we will do the same? Is that your way of measuring or way of interpreting the canons even in plain logic or simple reason that we should not do something like that? So what if the EP does it? Let EP be guilty of that crime ... but it doesn't necessary that every one should follow...

I am very much disappointed with the people here... if you are going to read all my post, I never say that the Antiochians should never come here... there are ways and procedures that need to be followed... our country is too big for EP to evangelize the entire islands...

My only point is this... how can we say that we are one in faith... in everything except administration if we do not know how to follow simple protocol.
 

ialmisry

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Islas Filipinas said:
... so just because the other do it... we will do the same? Is that your way of measuring or way of interpreting the canons even in plain logic or simple reason that we should not do something like that? So what if the EP does it? Let EP be guilty of that crime ... but it doesn't necessary that every one should follow...

I am very much disappointed with the people here... if you are going to read all my post, I never say that the Antiochians should never come here... there are ways and procedures that need to be followed... our country is too big for EP to evangelize the entire islands...

My only point is this... how can we say that we are one in faith... in everything except administration if we do not know how to follow simple protocol.
Ah, if it was only that simple.

The problem has been that the EP acts like an ethnarch, which the Antiochians (among others) have had to deal with in Europe, the US and in Antioch itself in the past.  The histories I get about the Phillipines, that the Russians under St. John didn't evangelize to the Filippinos strike me as a little odd, as St. John's whole life was spent evangelizing wherever he went (e.g. his support of the Gallican rite while in France).  I find it hard to believe that he made an exception for the Fillipinos.  I am a little suspicious that this is meant to undercut rival claims by the EP, much like the promotion of the New Smyrna colony (not Orthodox by any account) and Holy Trinity Parish in New Orleans (predated by the the Russian cathedral in San Francisco, let alone Alaska) is used in the US.


I will admit, I am unclear on how the Antiocheans got in the Philippines.  Antioch's title is "Antioch and All the East," but I don't know the specific history in the Phillipines.

And I will agree with you, there should be administrative unity.  Everywhere.

But the history of what has gone on in the US with the EP (let alone in Antioch, and the Greeks in Jerusalem) makes me wary of what is going on in the Phillipines.
 

sohma_hatori

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The Davao vicariate is now celebrating the Western Rite Liturgy approved by the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of America.. We are now also celebrating Matins and Vespers on Feast Days. The new Orthodox Christians of Davao, are still studying and adjusting, to Eastern liturgies, God-granting, by next year, we will be celebrating the St. John Chrysostom Liturgy, REGULARLY..  :)

We pray to the Lord.
Lord have Mercy!
 

ialmisry

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sohma_hatori said:
The Davao vicariate is now celebrating the Western Rite Liturgy approved by the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of America.. We are now also celebrating Matins and Vespers on Feast Days. The new Orthodox Christians of Davao, are still studying and adjusting, to Eastern liturgies, God-granting, by next year, we will be celebrating the St. John Chrysostom Liturgy, REGULARLY..  :)

We pray to the Lord.
Lord have Mercy!
Are these two different groups, or one group using the WR to transition into Eastern Rite?
 

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ialmisry said:
Are these two different groups, or one group using the WR to transition into Eastern Rite?
We are just part of the same Archdiocese friend. The Antiochian presence in the Philippines has two vicariates, Manila and Davao.. I belong to the Davao vicariate under Archpriest Jeptah Aniceto.
as of now, we are using a canonical Western liturgy, but it might take a longer time before we succesfully shift to St. John's Liturgy, because of the lack of materials and rubrics. We could not even afford a Thurible for our priest, or even Orthodox Vestments. The only one's we could buy (since they are a lot cheaper, and are readily available) are Roman Catholic vestments (as you've probably seen in the photos).. We are having a hard time, but Im happy that even if things are going slow , God never fails to slowly provide us with our spiritual nourishment,even if we lack material goods..  :)

Lord have Mercy!
 

ialmisry

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sohma_hatori said:
ialmisry said:
Are these two different groups, or one group using the WR to transition into Eastern Rite?
We are just part of the same Archdiocese friend. The Antiochian presence in the Philippines has two vicariates, Manila and Davao.. I belong to the Davao vicariate under Archpriest Jeptah Aniceto.
as of now, we are using a canonical Western liturgy, but it might take a longer time before we succesfully shift to St. John's Liturgy, because of the lack of materials and rubrics. We could not even afford a Thurible for our priest, or even Orthodox Vestments. The only one's we could buy (since they are a lot cheaper, and are readily available) are Roman Catholic vestments (as you've probably seen in the photos).. We are having a hard time, but Im happy that even if things are going slow , God never fails to slowly provide us with our spiritual nourishment,even if we lack material goods..  :)

Lord have Mercy!
Any reason why switching to Eastern Rite?
 

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Its what His Eminence wants for the future Parishes in the Philippines... We just adopted the Western Rite, but only for the meantime.. The priests told us, that when we have our own Temple's where we can do liturgy, then we can adopt the Eastern Rite.. As of this time, we celebrate Liturgy in the homes of the faithfull, or sometimes we rent a Protestant Place or an RC Cathedral for bigger celebrations..
 

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sohma_hatori said:
We could not even afford a Thurible for our priest,
You may be in luck here.
I have this handheld liturgical censer with bells which I have been asked to find a home for.
If you would like to have it, pm me with an address to send it to.

 

ialmisry

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sohma_hatori said:
Its what His Eminence wants for the future Parishes in the Philippines... We just adopted the Western Rite, but only for the meantime.. The priests told us, that when we have our own Temple's where we can do liturgy, then we can adopt the Eastern Rite.. As of this time, we celebrate Liturgy in the homes of the faithfull, or sometimes we rent a Protestant Place or an RC Cathedral for bigger celebrations..
Can or must adopt the Eastern Rite?
 

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ialmisry said:
sohma_hatori said:
Its what His Eminence wants for the future Parishes in the Philippines... We just adopted the Western Rite, but only for the meantime.. The priests told us, that when we have our own Temple's where we can do liturgy, then we can adopt the Eastern Rite.. As of this time, we celebrate Liturgy in the homes of the faithfull, or sometimes we rent a Protestant Place or an RC Cathedral for bigger celebrations..
Can or must adopt the Eastern Rite?
I don't really have a sure answer to that friend, but apparently, the converts themselves, want to establish Eastern Rite Parish, in order for us to establish an indenpendent identity, as Orthodox Christian. I concede to what my other fellow Filipinos have said here, that as of present, Antiochian Christians here are hard to distinguish from the Roman Catholic Church because of our Rites. But I've already mentioned (I thin I have mentioned) that lack of knowledge and materials have barred our way to complete transition to Eastern rubrics, such as the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. So HE PAul and our vicar decided that we adopt a liturgy that is very familiar to the evangelical and Roman Catholic converts (like myself) which is, at the same time, Orthodox in itself, that is why as of now, we adopt the Western liturgy approved by the Antiochian Church. I dont know if we HAVE to use the Eastern Liturgies, but personally, Id be eager to witness the day, where we can establish for ourselves, a Temple where we can celebrate the St. John Chrysostom Liturgy, with complete rubrics, and with the people's familiarity.

 

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sohma_hatori said:
.....apparently, the converts themselves, want to establish Eastern Rite Parish, in order for us to establish an indenpendent identity, as Orthodox Christian. I concede to what my other fellow Filipinos have said here, that as of present, Antiochian Christians here are hard to distinguish from the Roman Catholic Church because of our Rites.
Thank you for the updates Sohma. Its good to know that the converts (does that includes the ordained priests or only the lay people?) wants "to establish Eastern Rite Parish" so as to be identified as truly Orthodox. If the priests prefers  "Western Rite" then they should follow the canonical Western Rite and not the modified Novus Ordo Roman Rite.


sohma_hatori said:
But I've already mentioned (I thin I have mentioned) that lack of knowledge and materials have barred our way to complete transition to Eastern rubrics, such as the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. ....... I dont know if we HAVE to use the Eastern Liturgies, but personally, Id be eager to witness the day, where we can establish for ourselves, a Temple where we can celebrate the St. John Chrysostom Liturgy, with complete rubrics, and with the people's familiarity.
There are more Byzantine Liturgical materials and media which you can download over the net than Western Rite liturgical materials. During our time, it took us several months before we memorized how to sing or chant the different melodies of the Byzantine hymns in the Sunday Liturgy. We started familiarizing ourselves by distributing 1 cassette tape of the the Divine Liturgy in English for each family.

The tape did not come from Greece or America (and back then there was no internet sites where you can download the hymns "on line" unlike today).  We made it ourselves; a Filipino member who knows how to read music notations familiarized himself with the melodies of hymns of the  Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom Hymnal and made voice recordings of the liturgical hymns. We would listen to his voice recordings at home then will try our best to follow the melody and sing the hymns during the Sunday Liturgy. Yes, we even play the voice recording on the cassette player during the liturgy (especially the long hymns like the Great Doxology and the Cherubic Hymn) so we can follow and sing the hymns.  Several months later, we can sing the hymns  without playing the  cassette tape during the Liturgy. That's how we were able to familiarize ourselves with the  hymns (or liturgical rubrics) of the Divine Liturgy even though we do not have a "temple".

You don't need a "temple",  iconastasis etc. to perform the Divine Liturgy.  Our "temple" arrived after more than 3 years of performing the Divine Liturgy in offices and homes owned by Orthodox faithful (occasionally in the Greek chapel of Saint George which is actually a  family mausoleum).  Yes, if there is a will there is a way.  ;)

Here's an online resource where you can download Byzantine liturgical music sheets in PDf format and recordings of Liturgical hymns in MP3 format:

NEW BYZANTINE PUBLICATIONS (click)

You can download an MP3 recording of the major hymns of the Divine Liturgy in English  HERE (click).

The link above contains the following Divine Liturgy hymns in English:

1. Through the Prayers of the Theotokos
2. Save us O Son of God
3. Thrice Holy Hymn
4. A Hymn of Praise (During Consecration)
5. One is Holy  (During Communion)
6. Praise the Lord (During Communion)
7. Receive Me Today O Son of God (Communion Song)
8. We Have Seen the Light


I hope this helps.







 

ozgeorge

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The new converts to Orthodoxy in the Philippines are in need of many things as they try to establish themselves.
Prodromas and I are trying to assist as best we can, but we need help.
After discussing this with Frs. Anastasios & Chris, permission has been obtained to post this appeal.
We are shipping a few items next week to help out, and if anyone would like to donate any of the following items, pm me, and I will give you the shipping address.
The items they need are:

Icons of the Archangels

Icon/s of Christ Pantocrator/ High Priest

Icon/s of the Theotokos

Icon/s of St. John Forerunner

Icons of the 12 Feasts of the Church

Icon of St. Basil the Great

Icon of St. John Chrysostom

Icon of the 12 apostles

Icon of St. Peter and Paul

Icon of St. Andrew the Apostle

3 Hand Crosses

Catechetical and Theological Books (anything you can provide, no specific category)

More Orthodox Bibles, for our priests (about 3 should do)

Prayer Books and Reader Service Books (English/Greek)

Hand Censer (with the materials needed to use it if its possible)

Holy Water (if possible)

Books on learning Byzantine Hymnlogy

 

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ozgeorge said:
The new converts to Orthodoxy in the Philippines are in need of many things as they try to establish themselves.
Prodromas and I are trying to assist as best we can, but we need help.
After discussing this with Frs. Anastasios & Chris, permission has been obtained to post this appeal.
We are shipping a few items next week to help out, and if anyone would like to donate any of the following items, pm me, and I will give you the shipping address.
The items they need are:

Icons of the Archangels

Icon/s of Christ Pantocrator/ High Priest

Icon/s of the Theotokos

Icon/s of St. John Forerunner

Icons of the 12 Feasts of the Church

Icon of St. Basil the Great

Icon of St. John Chrysostom

Icon of the 12 apostles

Icon of St. Peter and Paul

Icon of St. Andrew the Apostle

3 Hand Crosses

Catechetical and Theological Books (anything you can provide, no specific category)

More Orthodox Bibles, for our priests (about 3 should do)

Prayer Books and Reader Service Books (English/Greek)

Hand Censer (with the materials needed to use it if its possible)

Holy Water (if possible)

Books on learning Byzantine Hymnlogy

This would be of great help to Filipino Orthodox. Incidentally, would this apply only to our Antiochian brothers, or would this also include those in the Ecumenical Patriarchate?
 

ozgeorge

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Milliardo said:
This would be of great help to Filipino Orthodox. Incidentally, would this apply only to our Antiochian brothers, or would this also include those in the Ecumenical Patriarchate?
This is what the Antiochians have asked for.
 
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