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converts: are there ever times when you feel a pull toward your old tradition?

ialmisry

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Riddikulus said:
ialmisry said:
Riddikulus said:
ialmisry said:
Ukiemeister said:
ialmisry said:
You are right.  Why bother with putting your time, care and effort in reading the Bible and the Fathers when you can put that time and effort into being trained like a parrot.
No extra time needed. Just show up to Church and pray along with everyone else.
You assume ANY one else speaks the language.  
They are speaking it for the Liturgy
there goes that assuming again....
I'm sorry? Are you saying that people saying the Liturgy in Old Greek, Old Arabic, or some old Slavic tongue aren't speaking any language at all?
Parrots don't speak any language.

I am saying, based on experience, that it is quite possible to go to a DL where no one has a clue as to what is being said, including the priest.  The Fathers didn't write babbling. They wrote hymns.

Once I was at a non-Arab Church in IN. On the offering table in the narthex there was a silk covering.  The design was Arabesque, and quite lovely, except that the border had the Muslim Creed repeated along the border.  It could be worse: in some medieval icons the Theotokos wears tiraz (a Middle Eastern luxury cloth) with the same border, and many Churches in the old empire have the same Creed as a pattern in brickwork around the outside of Churches.
 

scamandrius

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Ukiemeister said:
I'm not opposed to English services, I'm just opposed to people treating language issues as if they are the end of the world.
Hear, hear!

As far as my response to the OP:  NO.
 

katherineofdixie

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Orthodox11 said:
Only thing I miss from the Lutheran church is the ethnic stuff. It was the only place in London where I was able to surround myself with people from my own culture and speak my mother tongue, which is why I have quite a bit of sympathy for those Orthodox Christians who have similar cultural attachments to their church.
Same here. (My former Lutheran congregation had services in German up until almost WWII, with confirmation classes and church council meetings in German also! Which is why I agree with you about having sympathy for cultural attachments.) In becoming Orthodox, I sometimes feel like the red-headed stepchild or the new in-law at the family reunion. I don't know the in-jokes or the relationships and so I miss a lot of what goes on.
I think I miss the music most of all. I love Orthodox hymnody, don't get me wrong, but I miss the good old Lutheran hymns and organ music also. Though I must say that my former congregation was fortunate to have a first class instrument and a genius organist/choirmaster, so that spoiled me.
 

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Every once in a while, an old hymn will go through my mind. I'll sometimes pull out a hymnal and sing it. Many of the old traditional hymns that I knew would not be unacceptable to the Orthodox (outside of a liturgical setting, of course), much like Christmas carols. However, my former congregation has gone quite contemporary, so there really is no "old tradition" to go back to. Most of the people there now don't have a clue about the old hymns. In fact, on the increasingly rare occasions that I visit (my wife still attends there), I'm reminded very firmly WHY I'm Orthodox :).
 

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I'm not a convert... but, I've considered jumping the Roman boat for a tradition that I love.

I guess the hard part for me is losing my love for so many Western saints.  I think my view of God's grace is probably a little broader than Orthodoxy's and I don't mean that as a criticism.  I'll still love St. Francis of Assisi and St. Thomas Aquinas even if Orthodox aren't even sure whether they are even baptized Christians.

It's pretty awful where I'm at.  I love people like St. Ignatius of Loyola and the Little Flower and John of the Cross; I can stay Catholic and still love the Eastern saints, even after the Great Schism.  I guess I could keep a private shrine to the Western saints (post-Schism) as an Orthodox Christian, but then this really amounts to cheating right?

 

ialmisry

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PedalPusher said:
I'm not a convert... but, I've considered jumping the Roman boat for a tradition that I love.

I guess the hard part for me is losing my love for so many Western saints.  I think my view of God's grace is probably a little broader than Orthodoxy's and I don't mean that as a criticism.  I'll still love St. Francis of Assisi and St. Thomas Aquinas even if Orthodox aren't even sure whether they are even baptized Christians.

It's pretty awful where I'm at.  I love people like St. Ignatius of Loyola and the Little Flower and John of the Cross; I can stay Catholic and still love the Eastern saints, even after the Great Schism.  I guess I could keep a private shrine to the Western saints (post-Schism) as an Orthodox Christian, but then this really amounts to cheating right?
No.

And you could join a Western Rite Orthodox Church, although the closest one to you I think is in Florida.
 

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Xenia: JP?  Is that Jerusalem Patriarchate?

Yes, it is.

But not anymore.

(complicated)
 

ialmisry

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Xenia said:
Xenia: JP?  Is that Jerusalem Patriarchate?

Yes, it is.

But not anymore.

(complicated)
I'd love to hear your take on things.
 
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Asteriktos said:
And speaking of basketball, where am I supposed to play sports in an Orthodox Church? I've never seen a rec hall in one. It was a nice way to raise the awareness about Christianity without being pushy. You just invite a few friends to play some sport or other at the Church, and they could then decide for themselves whether they wanted to explore the other areas of the Church--though preferrably more than just the fellowship hall when we had food!
Every Orthodox parish I have been a member of has had a Rec hall with basketball hoops. The parish I belonged to in Atlanta actually has a full size basketball/volleyball court, and the Youth participate in an annual diocesan competition.

So basketball is not foreign to Orthodoxy, just your parish. ;)
 

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HandmaidenofGod said:
Every Orthodox parish I have been a member of has had a Rec hall with basketball hoops. The parish I belonged to in Atlanta actually has a full size basketball/volleyball court, and the Youth participate in an annual diocesan competition.

So basketball is not foreign to Orthodoxy, just your parish. ;)
Must be nice :)
 

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HandmaidenofGod said:
Asteriktos said:
And speaking of basketball, where am I supposed to play sports in an Orthodox Church? I've never seen a rec hall in one. It was a nice way to raise the awareness about Christianity without being pushy. You just invite a few friends to play some sport or other at the Church, and they could then decide for themselves whether they wanted to explore the other areas of the Church--though preferrably more than just the fellowship hall when we had food!
Every Orthodox parish I have been a member of has had a Rec hall with basketball hoops. The parish I belonged to in Atlanta actually has a full size basketball/volleyball court, and the Youth participate in an annual diocesan competition.

So basketball is not foreign to Orthodoxy, just your parish. ;)
Actually, foreign to all the dozen or so parishes I've been to ;)  But both you and someone in PM informed me that it is not that way everywhere, so I'm glad that I was mistaken.
 

Alveus Lacuna

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Just move to the south.  Dixie just can't do without her sports, no matter how different your religion might be.  I'm sure that the mosques in Atlanta also have basketball recreational centers.
 

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I was Presbyterian for 17 years [ sunday school teacher, deacon and on the sould sys] orthodox for all most 2 years.
yes i still have soft spot for my old faith but i would never go back. I feeled very sad write my Resignation Letter
But i have found so much more  and we have very good priest in new zealand
 

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Wow thanks for posting this.I am greek orthodox from australia. I must say that i love the fact that people are coming to the orthodox faith. Its the true church of christ. welcome to the true faith and god bless u all
 

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Being a convert from Catholicism, I was able to take a great number of practices with me (I still say the Rosary now and then, but not as much as I used to, instead using repetitions of the Jesus Prayer and other devotions far more). I also still listen to and love the choral music of Palestrina and Monteverdi. I also enjoy many western hymns such as Veni Creator Spiritus and Lord of Mercy and Compassion.

Some things, however, had to stay behind. I personally love Baroque art, though it seems to be frowned upon heavily in Orthodox circles, due to its overly literalist nature (which I understand). The people around me highly emphasized the supposed prophecy of the apparition at Fatima, so that belief was somewhat difficult to shake off. I still miss the sermons of my priest now and then, who seemed more unafraid than many other clergy I know to make controversial statements, and the overall piety of my church was admirable (I went to a sedevacantist parish).

That being said, I've found the spirit of much of my tradition-based rebellion finds its logical conclusion in Orthodoxy, and I've found equally glorious spiritual and aesthetic riches in the Byzantine rite.
 

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One of the carryovers from Catholicism that I still engage in is the saying of the Angelus @ noon on a regular basis, especially during the work week.  I like the structure it adds to my day and the brief respite from the hullabaloo that goes on in my office. 
 

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I think the things I miss from my days as a protestant non-denominational-ist are probably rooted in me being impatient and self centered (please don't interpret that as a jab at anyone else... Strictly speaking of myself).  When I find myself longing for my former tradition is is always based on what I feel and what I want and that I want it right now.  Being a catechumen I sometimes feel like I am in limbo and miss the feeling of really being a part of something.  I also miss taking communion.  It is also difficult to not feel lonely in this process, or at least to not let the loneliness discourage me.  Friends and family are held together in a large way by common goals, experiences, and interests and my conversion process is outside of that.  So yeah, there is a certain sense of loss I suppose, but its probably more of a loss of comfort more than anything of true substance... So a loss of a thing that isn't a thing at all.  All that being said, for the most part my friends and family have been good about my conversion.  At best they have been very supportive and intrigued while at worst they have been rather neutral. 
 

katherineofdixie

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KBN1 said:
When I find myself longing for my former tradition is is always based on what I feel and what I want and that I want it right now.  Being a catechumen I sometimes feel like I am in limbo and miss the feeling of really being a part of something.  I also miss taking communion.  It is also difficult to not feel lonely in this process, or at least to not let the loneliness discourage me.  Friends and family are held together in a large way by common goals, experiences, and interests and my conversion process is outside of that.  So yeah, there is a certain sense of loss I suppose, but its probably more of a loss of comfort more than anything of true substance... So a loss of a thing that isn't a thing at all. 
Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. I felt this way when I was a catechumen also!
 

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katherineofdixie said:
KBN1 said:
When I find myself longing for my former tradition is is always based on what I feel and what I want and that I want it right now.  Being a catechumen I sometimes feel like I am in limbo and miss the feeling of really being a part of something.  I also miss taking communion.  It is also difficult to not feel lonely in this process, or at least to not let the loneliness discourage me.  Friends and family are held together in a large way by common goals, experiences, and interests and my conversion process is outside of that.  So yeah, there is a certain sense of loss I suppose, but its probably more of a loss of comfort more than anything of true substance... So a loss of a thing that isn't a thing at all. 
Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. I felt this way when I was a catechumen also!
Likewise, even moreso, perhaps, knowing full well that the Ukrainian Catholic Church three blocks away would gladly give me communion at the same time as the DL @ the Orthodox church I was attending.  I went almost 18 months w/o receiving communion and it apparently showed; my wife even commented on it to me.

You'll get there and it will make that moment of first reception the most glorious moment of your life. :)
 

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Thank you for the encouragement katherineofdixie and Schultz.  I find myself in a spot that I am certain is very good to be in, but it is also difficult.  So many deep held beliefs and assumptions, both conscious and subconscious, that were until now unexamined are being brought to the surface and dealt with.  It is humbling.
 
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A couple of years ago, I felt drawn back to the church of my youth.  I went to visit my parents, and was excited to attend the same church I grew up in, for one Sunday.  I wanted to sing the old hymns and do things the way we used to, something I'd been missing ever since I moved away and couldn't find a Nazarene church with more than 5 members.  I missed the quiet services with the occasional "amen" from the old folks, the testimonies, the Wesleyan hymns dripping with theology, the Bible readings, the Bible-based sermons, the singing of the Doxology at the end.

But when I went to the service on Labor Day weekend two years ago, I discovered that the church I remembered had been replaced with happy-clappy praise music, light and fluffy sermons, maybe a verse or two from the Bible and that was it, skits, PowerPoint, and nothing at all of our own version of a liturgy.  The church I missed, no longer existed.  So ever since then, I haven't wanted to go back to where I came from.


trevor72694 said:
I have been really having a hard time with this.  last night, I got out my two bibles that I used daily in my Protestant life.  when I fell in love with Holy Orthodoxy, I put them away and replaced them on my night stand with an Orthodox study bible. this sounds silly I'm sure.  but when I leaf through the pages, I feel the way I felt when I was Presbyterian.  I mean, Sola Scriptura was great, before I discovered that there were traditions established by original Christians, and that Orthodoxy follows those traditions to this day. 

How can I get through these little tough times?

Tomorrow when I go to liturgy, these feelings will fade.  But, how should I address them when I have them?.....I feel confused, to say the least. 

anyone else feel my pain?
 

ialmisry

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Schultz said:
One of the carryovers from Catholicism that I still engage in is the saying of the Angelus @ noon on a regular basis, especially during the work week.  I like the structure it adds to my day and the brief respite from the hullabaloo that goes on in my office. 
I love it too, and say it-in LATIN.
 

ialmisry

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Schultz said:
katherineofdixie said:
KBN1 said:
When I find myself longing for my former tradition is is always based on what I feel and what I want and that I want it right now.  Being a catechumen I sometimes feel like I am in limbo and miss the feeling of really being a part of something.  I also miss taking communion.  It is also difficult to not feel lonely in this process, or at least to not let the loneliness discourage me.  Friends and family are held together in a large way by common goals, experiences, and interests and my conversion process is outside of that.  So yeah, there is a certain sense of loss I suppose, but its probably more of a loss of comfort more than anything of true substance... So a loss of a thing that isn't a thing at all. 
Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. I felt this way when I was a catechumen also!
Likewise, even moreso, perhaps, knowing full well that the Ukrainian Catholic Church three blocks away would gladly give me communion at the same time as the DL @ the Orthodox church I was attending.  I went almost 18 months w/o receiving communion and it apparently showed; my wife even commented on it to me.

You'll get there and it will make that moment of first reception the most glorious moment of your life. :)
I went to a Latin school, and took communion, even though I was Lutheran. I visited an Orthodox Church twice, and didn't take communion, for what why not I still don't know.  But it made that first time on that Lazarus Saturday I was chrismated.
 

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trevor72694 said:
I have been really having a hard time with this.  last night, I got out my two bibles that I used daily in my Protestant life.  when I fell in love with Holy Orthodoxy, I put them away and replaced them on my night stand with an Orthodox study bible. this sounds silly I'm sure.  but when I leaf through the pages, I feel the way I felt when I was Presbyterian.  I mean, Sola Scriptura was great, before I discovered that there were traditions established by original Christians, and that Orthodoxy follows those traditions to this day.  

How can I get through these little tough times?

Tomorrow when I go to liturgy, these feelings will fade.  But, how should I address them when I have them?.....I feel confused, to say the least.  

anyone else feel my pain?
No, and simply because when I first started to read the fathers, I immediately became odd, and so, I never really fit in anywhere except for Anglo-Catholicism back in the liberal denomination of the ECUSA, and even back then, I never wanted to plant roots in the ECUSA.




I was raised Baptist, but I have no feelings that you are speaking of......at least not now and the 3 years I've been EO.,


maybe because I am still friends with most of the protestants I knew in the past. I still speak and argue with many often, and so, no.
oh, and I don't hate nor dislaik my protestant past. So that may have something to do with it as well. I take my slow good old time when it comes to absorbing the Orthodox ethos....I never tried to force it on my self and so I never stopped saying protestant prayers around protestants......etc.


It sounds like you may be having one of these moments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqVEEcqrGcA(Home Videos Channels Shows)

Change Player SizeThe Matrix : Cypher´s speech
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7BuQFUhsRM(Agent Smith and Cypher)



I guess one of the things you can do is look at your past as having alot of goods things in it that helped you eventually become Orthodox. We don't have to despize our past nor dispze the groups we came from. I'm sure we can't find alot of good where we came from.







ICXC NIKA
 

jnorm888

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bogdan said:
Honestly, I haven't felt even the gentlest tug.

The only thing I can't seem to shed are my "old" prayers at meal time when asked to bless the food. For whatever reason I feel strange saying the Orthodox prayers publicly. Maybe it's embarrassment over the formal language of the prayers?  :-\
I have the same problem. Oh, and I still read alot of protestant bibles too, and so, I never really struggled with those feelings that the OP was talking about.






ICXC NIKA
 

sprtslvr1973

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To the original poster's question:

Well sometimes. Mainstream Protestantism is so simple and straightforward, I understand some people feeling lost in the mix of Orthodoxy.
 

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jnorm888 said:
trevor72694 said:
I have been really having a hard time with this.  last night, I got out my two bibles that I used daily in my Protestant life.  when I fell in love with Holy Orthodoxy, I put them away and replaced them on my night stand with an Orthodox study bible. this sounds silly I'm sure.  but when I leaf through the pages, I feel the way I felt when I was Presbyterian.  I mean, Sola Scriptura was great, before I discovered that there were traditions established by original Christians, and that Orthodoxy follows those traditions to this day.  

How can I get through these little tough times?

Tomorrow when I go to liturgy, these feelings will fade.  But, how should I address them when I have them?.....I feel confused, to say the least.  

anyone else feel my pain?
No, and simply because when I first started to read the fathers, I immediately became odd, and so, I never really fit in anywhere except for Anglo-Catholicism back in the liberal denomination of the ECUSA, and even back then, I never wanted to plant roots in the ECUSA.




I was raised Baptist, but I have no feelings that you are speaking of......at least not now and the 3 years I've been EO.,


maybe because I am still friends with most of the protestants I knew in the past. I still speak and argue with many often, and so, no.
oh, and I don't hate nor dislaik my protestant past. So that may have something to do with it as well. I take my slow good old time when it comes to absorbing the Orthodox ethos....I never tried to force it on my self and so I never stopped saying protestant prayers around protestants......etc.


It sounds like you may be having one of these moments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqVEEcqrGcA(Home Videos Channels Shows)

Change Player SizeThe Matrix : Cypher´s speech
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7BuQFUhsRM(Agent Smith and Cypher)



I guess one of the things you can do is look at your past as having alot of goods things in it that helped you eventually become Orthodox. We don't have to despize our past nor dispze the groups we came from. I'm sure we can't find alot of good where we came from.







ICXC NIKA
I'm sorry for all the mispelled words. The screen was acting funny
 

Peleg

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trevor72694 said:
I have been really having a hard time with this.  last night, I got out my two bibles that I used daily in my Protestant life.  when I fell in love with Holy Orthodoxy, I put them away and replaced them on my night stand with an Orthodox study bible. this sounds silly I'm sure.  but when I leaf through the pages, I feel the way I felt when I was Presbyterian.  I mean, Sola Scriptura was great, before I discovered that there were traditions established by original Christians, and that Orthodoxy follows those traditions to this day. 

How can I get through these little tough times?

Tomorrow when I go to liturgy, these feelings will fade.  But, how should I address them when I have them?.....I feel confused, to say the least. 

anyone else feel my pain?
I do but in a different way.  I have no desire whatsoever to return to my Protestant past.  W/ Orthodoxy I'm truly home.  But, I have had rounds of terrible doubts about the truthfulness of the Church.  Mind you, by and large, these are not really intellectual problems but emotional.  Just a strong feeling that I've left the Christian faith and become something else.  One of those religious groups I was always warned about in my Protestant upbringing.  It is very much like a spiritual attack.  There's really no foundation to it but an onslaught of fear and doubt that, at times, has virtually debilitated me.  But I've stuck to my guns because even amid these doubts I don't want to return to being a Protestant.  In time the attack passes and is replaced w/ a wonderful assurance, peace and love for the Church.  I really do think it's an attack of the enemy.  I also believe, as testified by all the posts here, that this is a common experience among converts.  You're not alone, stay strong.  In Christ.
 

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I never doubted that, in becoming Orthodox, I made the right move.  I was, how4ever, much constrained to make that move in love, because my experiences with Protestantism in general and Anglicanism in particular (especially, a nasty political fight in the parish from which I left), troubled me.  Orthdoxy, I had read, stresses the ethic of love, and I was concerned that if I did not make the move East in love, the whole venture would turn out bad.
 
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