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Converts wearing headcoverings= legalists?

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Apples

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Deep Roots said:
William said:
Deep Roots said:
(By the way, are you sure some of you didn't just make a wrong turn into the Orthodox Church while you were actually on your way to a LARP gathering in the woods somewhere?  Sweet heavenly host, it seems like some of you just want nothing more than to play dress up, live in the past, and have someplace to vent your inner patriarchal monarchist.  Don't worry, I'm working on inventing a time machine so you can go back to where you wanna go: where women knew their place, when a king was on the throne, where gays and heretics could be executed for publicly violating the Church, where you could wear 'period clothing', etc.  Man, when I converted to Orthodoxy it was because I was convinced of its Truth, which is alive and beautiful and life bearing, not because it gave me a place to live out weird fantasies that seem to always come back to women, sexuality, and clothing.)
Yeah we get it, you're better than people who take head-coverings seriously. You'll fit in great with the self-appointed convertitis brigade on this board.
Actually, I have no problem with them.  I think they're beautiful.  I'd say a slight majority of the women in my church wear them.  It's a beautiful sight to behold, I think.  My wife is Episcopal, but if she ever decided to wear one when she comes to church with me, I'd have no problem.

So..nice try, but no.  I just oppose theologically armwrestling someone into feeling that it's necessary or preferable.
I didn't say you opposed them, just that you're very self-righteous about people who think "it's necessary or preferable."
 

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William said:
I didn't say you opposed them, just that you're very set on taking on people who think "it's necessary or preferable."
fixed, and.... yep.
 

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Maria said:
yeshuaisiam said:
Alveus Lacuna said:
Karaleighmum said:
"But every woman praying or prophesying with her head not covered disgraceth her head: "

Okay so I normally wear a headdress to church, ever since coming across this scripture. I personally feel it was very direct and simple. So I feel good about it. Now my question is: are we supposed to wear them during ALL prayer? i.e. I find myself praying often, speaking to God frequently through out my day. Does this mean I am supposed to wear a prayer cap or head covering all the time just in case I pray? Which I do often, or is it a cover your head whn you pray more formally sort of situation? Thanks in advance y'all!
I knew a girl that always covered her head because she thought she was called to ceaseless prayer. She's now a monastic novice.
According to the scriptures, in Thessolonians, everybody should pray without ceasing - thus woman should always cover their heads.

Also the hair is the glory of women (in the scriptures) thus should be reserved for her husband and God.
Actually, did not the Christian Orthodox ladies, including the Theotokos, observe the covering of their hair for the above two reasons? And did not the Amish come way after the Ancient Faith?
I believe the women of the Dunkard Brethren wear a head covering at all times so they are never uncovered if they should happen upon an occasion to pray.
 
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Alpo said:
AustralianDiaspora said:
In my opinion, if the purpose of wearing a veil is modesty, then wearing one in an environment where people would find it odd/not understand it would attract more attention and therefore defeat the purpose.
Everything religious attracts every kind of attention in every Western country. I don't want to get into discussion about whether women should cover their head or not but this is really a rather bad argument for anything considering how secularized Western countries are.
I don't see how the cause of it has any relevance if the end result is still the same. If it's common practice to do so then do it if you feel it's appropriate. If it's not common practice then take that into account when making a decision, particularly one based on modesty.
 

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According to the sermon I once heard delivered by Fr. Valery Lukianov, perhaps the best reason for women covering their heads at church is that it trims 30 minutes off the time it takes to get ready for church, thereby increasing the likelihood that a woman may attend the whole Divine Liturgy.  ;)
 

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Fr.Aidan said:
According to the sermon I once heard delivered by Fr. Valery Lukianov, perhaps the best reason for women covering their heads at church is that it trims 30 minutes off the time it takes to get ready for church, thereby increasing the likelihood that a woman may attend the whole Divine Liturgy.  ;)
Weak sexist jokes.
 

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Michał Kalina said:
Fr.Aidan said:
According to the sermon I once heard delivered by Fr. Valery Lukianov, perhaps the best reason for women covering their heads at church is that it trims 30 minutes off the time it takes to get ready for church, thereby increasing the likelihood that a woman may attend the whole Divine Liturgy.  ;)
Weak sexist jokes.
If you attended our parish, you would see it isn't a joke at all.  Several people show up late...
 

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Kerdy said:
Michał Kalina said:
Fr.Aidan said:
According to the sermon I once heard delivered by Fr. Valery Lukianov, perhaps the best reason for women covering their heads at church is that it trims 30 minutes off the time it takes to get ready for church, thereby increasing the likelihood that a woman may attend the whole Divine Liturgy.  ;)
Weak sexist jokes.
If you attended our parish, you would see it isn't a joke at all.  Several people show up late...
All of them women with heavy makeup?
 

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Fr.Aidan said:
I see you did not know Fr. Valery. More's the pity... You must imagine it said with love, warmth, and a sparkle in the eye, rather than... however you were imagining it.
That is the problem with forums like this, we do not see each other eye to eye when we write, discuss and express feelings..Even the best and wellmeant advice can turn into anger in 1-2-3 online. Sign of the times...
 

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Tommelomsky said:
Fr.Aidan said:
I see you did not know Fr. Valery. More's the pity... You must imagine it said with love, warmth, and a sparkle in the eye, rather than... however you were imagining it.
That is the problem with forums like this, we do not see each other eye to eye when we write, discuss and express feelings..Even the best and wellmeant advice can turn into anger in 1-2-3 online. Sign of the times...
With the blessings of technology also come the curses.
 

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Tommelomsky said:
I should have known this about the home. On the other side, it is so easy for me as a male to tell a female how to dress. Because I do not wear a full dress at sundays in church and even if I should have.

Maybe the best thing would be tonight to pray for the converts that do face this problem and ask The Lord to guide them. He can. Nothing is impossible for Him.
Thank you and God Bless!!!!
 

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You know, I have noticed a lot of the nonchalance associated with to wear a head covering or not to wear a head covering is justified with the "changing of the times"...might I pose the question, who is changing the times? For Our Father is an unchanging Holy God. Is it not true that this world is in the delusions of the Devil himself? I've witnessed first hand that while things may seem simple and pure of heart and intention, those are quite often the most unnoticed of Satan's schemes to break our Divine Ascent toward the Kingdom of Heaven.

But being a convert in the makings, I speak from a fool's perspective and would love gentle, educated feedback.

God Bless
 

biro

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So, I'm a tool of the Devil, who is responsible for the changing times.

Say you, writing on *the Internet.*

Did they have computers in Moses' day?
 

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I really did not mean anything cruel intentioned. I am asking as a convert for gentle educated opinions. I did not say you were a tool of the Devil's. I am just pointing out that in scripture it says very definitively one thing, and it does not say "according to the custom of the times"

I really wish people weren't so harsh on here. I just want to learn more. I am also not saying all things of this day in age are work of he Devil. They seem to be able to be tools of his if they become a distraction from the one True purpose of life. But that is probably discussion for a different thread.
 

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biro said:
So, I'm a tool of the Devil, who is responsible for the changing times.

Say you, writing on *the Internet.*

Did they have computers in Moses' day?
I did not live back in Moses`days. Sure, i`m old, a fool and not perfect either. But for the second time: this was not meant to upset you or anyone, it was just a fact that I see so often. Speaking with people online is different than having a coffee with them and talk face to face.

Sorry for causing any trouble and make anyone think, that I call them a tool for anything. It is not my intension at all.
 

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Karaleighmum said:
I really did not mean anything cruel intentioned. I am asking as a convert for gentle educated opinions. I did not say you were a tool of the Devil's. I am just pointing out that in scripture it says very definitively one thing, and it does not say "according to the custom of the times"

I really wish people weren't so harsh on here. I just want to learn more. I am also not saying all things of this day in age are work of he Devil. They seem to be able to be tools of his if they become a distraction from the one True purpose of life. But that is probably discussion for a different thread.
Hello Karaleighmum!

Forgive me if I am speaking out of place. 

I have not been on the site in a while but there has always been some wonderful, knowledgeable, and warm hearted folks here that have helped me understand the Orthodox faith in a kind, patient, and understanding way. As you are a 'newbie' I hope you find this web sight beneficial for your growth and knowledge of Orthodoxy. Perhaps you might be best off at first staying on the Convert Boards.

“The purpose of the Convert issues forum is to provide a place on the OC.net where inquirers, catechumens, and newly converted could ask their questions about the Orthodox Faith in a safe and supportive forum without retribution or recrimination.”


Peace & Grace
 

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Tommelomsky said:
biro said:
So, I'm a tool of the Devil, who is responsible for the changing times.

Say you, writing on *the Internet.*

Did they have computers in Moses' day?
I did not live back in Moses`days. Sure, i`m old, a fool and not perfect either. But for the second time: this was not meant to upset you or anyone, it was just a fact that I see so often. Speaking with people online is different than having a coffee with them and talk face to face.


I believe he was respoding to my above post unfortunately, which was not cruel intentioned either.
Sorry for causing any trouble and make anyone think, that I call them a tool for anything. It is not my intension at all.
 

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alanscott said:
Karaleighmum said:
I really did not mean anything cruel intentioned. I am asking as a convert for gentle educated opinions. I did not say you were a tool of the Devil's. I am just pointing out that in scripture it says very definitively one thing, and it does not say "according to the custom of the times"

I really wish people weren't so harsh on here. I just want to learn more. I am also not saying all things of this day in age are work of he Devil. They seem to be able to be tools of his if they become a distraction from the one True purpose of life. But that is probably discussion for a different thread.
Perhaps you might be best off at first staying on the Convert Boards.

“The purpose of the Convert issues forum is to provide a place on the OC.net where inquirers, catechumens, and newly converted could ask their questions about the Orthodox Faith in a safe and supportive forum without retribution or recrimination.”
I thought I was on the convert Boards?
 

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biro said:
So, I'm a tool of the Devil, who is responsible for the changing times.

Say you, writing on *the Internet.*

Did they have computers in Moses' day?
The Convert Issues board is supposed to be a safe environment for converts to ask genuine questions without fear of derision. Is that so hard?
 

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Yes and quite honestly, as of lately it has made me feel not so welcome around here anymore. Being reading The Orthodox Way by Bishop Kallistos Ware, I look for more of that brother and sisterhood that he expresses we all should be in here.

But please..do not misunderstand me, there are many great people around here, but there are also a lot of anger, hate and frustration.
Why is that?
 

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Karaleighmum said:
You know, I have noticed a lot of the nonchalance associated with to wear a head covering or not to wear a head covering is justified with the "changing of the times"...might I pose the question, who is changing the times? For Our Father is an unchanging Holy God. Is it not true that this world is in the delusions of the Devil himself? I've witnessed first hand that while things may seem simple and pure of heart and intention, those are quite often the most unnoticed of Satan's schemes to break our Divine Ascent toward the Kingdom of Heaven.

But being a convert in the makings, I speak from a fool's perspective and would love gentle, educated feedback.

God Bless
being able to distinguish between [t]radition and [T]radition is a very valid concern.  I am not qualified to speak on the matter authoritatively.  But I do read a lot, and listen a lot, and it seems to me that the idea of headcoverings is possibly one that was borne out of specific cultural contexts which weighted the practice with theological significance.  When the cultural context is gone, the mandate follows.

Your point about who changes the times is a good one.  But it, too, does not have an easy answer.  Because all of us can agree that SOME changes in society are evil, while others are simply historical and cultural inevitabilities.  

As Brio said, you are on the internet right now.  There is no scriptural mandate for anything on the internet specifically, though the spirit of the scriptures and the Tradition can certainly be applied to the Internet in a general sense.

You don't want to go down the road of ignoring historical context or it's going to get very difficult for you.
 

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Michał Kalina said:
Fr.Aidan said:
According to the sermon I once heard delivered by Fr. Valery Lukianov, perhaps the best reason for women covering their heads at church is that it trims 30 minutes off the time it takes to get ready for church, thereby increasing the likelihood that a woman may attend the whole Divine Liturgy.  ;)
Weak sexist jokes.
Not really since it's probably true in most cases.

Not in my case though since I spent a lot more time choocing proper sunday clothes for myself than my former girfriend did for choocing for herself. I wonder why we aren't together anymore. ;D
 

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Nephi said:
biro said:
So, I'm a tool of the Devil, who is responsible for the changing times.

Say you, writing on *the Internet.*

Did they have computers in Moses' day?
The Convert Issues board is supposed to be a safe environment for converts to ask genuine questions without fear of derision. Is that so hard?
Derision? She, in my opinion, derided people who aren't as adherent to this practice as herself. I thought I was allowed to present a point of view too, because some of us don't appreciate the idea that those who don't wear coverings are socially susceptible to evil influences. If she makes a post, can't others respond to it? The practice of hair scarves for women isn't followed where I live. Hasn't been for a long time. If she wants to wear the covering, she can. But I disagreed with her reasoning on why some people don't wear it.

Thought that might be relevant.
 

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biro said:
Nephi said:
biro said:
So, I'm a tool of the Devil, who is responsible for the changing times.

Say you, writing on *the Internet.*

Did they have computers in Moses' day?
The Convert Issues board is supposed to be a safe environment for converts to ask genuine questions without fear of derision. Is that so hard?
Derision? She, in my opinion, derided people who aren't as adherent to this practice as herself. I thought I was allowed to present a point of view too, because some of us don't appreciate the idea that those who don't wear coverings are socially susceptible to evil influences. If she makes a post, can't others respond to it? The practice of hair scarves for women isn't followed where I live. Hasn't been for a long time. If she wants to wear the covering, she can. But I disagreed with her reasoning on why some people don't wear it.

Thought that might be relevant.
Okay I was not claiming that that is why some people do not where it. I was just posting a thought. I am certainly not saying that I know better than others or that how I do things is better than anyone else. I really thought that forming a brotherhood and sisterhood would be sweet, but thus far on this site I have discovered a lot of sarcasm, which is really saddening. Here I was posting a genuine concern and question about the world in general and you did not need to take it so harshly. I was having a conversation with the father at the Orthodox Church I attend and we were speaking on how the culture is taking the Church away from it's ancient teachings and rituals, trying to accommodate "the changing times" which got me thinking about this topic when I stumbled upon the thread. I feel it is a valid concern not to be taken personally, rather noted.
 

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Deep Roots said:
Karaleighmum said:
You know, I have noticed a lot of the nonchalance associated with to wear a head covering or not to wear a head covering is justified with the "changing of the times"...might I pose the question, who is changing the times? For Our Father is an unchanging Holy God. Is it not true that this world is in the delusions of the Devil himself? I've witnessed first hand that while things may seem simple and pure of heart and intention, those are quite often the most unnoticed of Satan's schemes to break our Divine Ascent toward the Kingdom of Heaven.

But being a convert in the makings, I speak from a fool's perspective and would love gentle, educated feedback.

God Bless
being able to distinguish between [t]radition and [T]radition is a very valid concern.  I am not qualified to speak on the matter authoritatively.  But I do read a lot, and listen a lot, and it seems to me that the idea of headcoverings is possibly one that was borne out of specific cultural contexts which weighted the practice with theological significance.  When the cultural context is gone, the mandate follows.

Your point about who changes the times is a good one.  But it, too, does not have an easy answer.  Because all of us can agree that SOME changes in society are evil, while others are simply historical and cultural inevitabilities.  

As Brio said, you are on the internet right now.  There is no scriptural mandate for anything on the internet specifically, though the spirit of the scriptures and the Tradition can certainly be applied to the Internet in a general sense.

You don't want to go down the road of ignoring historical context or it's going to get very difficult for you.
I appreciate the recognition of my concerns. I am rather curious about the Scripture which could be applied to the internet, though that is not on topic with the thread.

If the headdress thing is one of cultural times, would it not have been included? Scripture does not say "according to cultural tradition" which is my main point. I don't know, I find this intriguing not just simply due to to wear or not to wear, but for the larger implications of my statement as well.

Nonetheless, I appreciate the gentle response :)
 

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Karaleighmum said:
Deep Roots said:
Karaleighmum said:
You know, I have noticed a lot of the nonchalance associated with to wear a head covering or not to wear a head covering is justified with the "changing of the times"...might I pose the question, who is changing the times? For Our Father is an unchanging Holy God. Is it not true that this world is in the delusions of the Devil himself? I've witnessed first hand that while things may seem simple and pure of heart and intention, those are quite often the most unnoticed of Satan's schemes to break our Divine Ascent toward the Kingdom of Heaven.

But being a convert in the makings, I speak from a fool's perspective and would love gentle, educated feedback.

God Bless
being able to distinguish between [t]radition and [T]radition is a very valid concern.  I am not qualified to speak on the matter authoritatively.  But I do read a lot, and listen a lot, and it seems to me that the idea of headcoverings is possibly one that was borne out of specific cultural contexts which weighted the practice with theological significance.  When the cultural context is gone, the mandate follows.

Your point about who changes the times is a good one.  But it, too, does not have an easy answer.  Because all of us can agree that SOME changes in society are evil, while others are simply historical and cultural inevitabilities.  

As Brio said, you are on the internet right now.  There is no scriptural mandate for anything on the internet specifically, though the spirit of the scriptures and the Tradition can certainly be applied to the Internet in a general sense.

You don't want to go down the road of ignoring historical context or it's going to get very difficult for you.
I appreciate the recognition of my concerns. I am rather curious about the Scripture which could be applied to the internet, though that is not on topic with the thread.

If the headdress thing is one of cultural times, would it not have been included? Scripture does not say "according to cultural tradition" which is my main point. I don't know, I find this intriguing not just simply due to to wear or not to wear, but for the larger implications of my statement as well.

Nonetheless, I appreciate the gentle response :)
Well, any scriptures that exhort us to be pure, loving, gentle, etc., can be applied to any interpersonal conduct, including the Web.

Also, you won't find "according to cultural tradition" anywhere in scripture, but it's implicit and necessarily is informed by cultural tradition.  Many biblical scholars recognize that it's possible, likely even, that each of the 4 Gospel accounts were written with an intended audience in mind.  That is why we see, for example, that John's gospel is so heavily concerned with appealing - subtly and not so subtly - to a Jewish audience, concerned with showing Jesus as the Messiah.

Culture matters.  Meaning, language, and praxis grow up together with a culture.
 

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Karaleighmum said:
You know, I have noticed a lot of the nonchalance associated with to wear a head covering or not to wear a head covering is justified with the "changing of the times"...might I pose the question, who is changing the times? For Our Father is an unchanging Holy God. Is it not true that this world is in the delusions of the Devil himself? I've witnessed first hand that while things may seem simple and pure of heart and intention, those are quite often the most unnoticed of Satan's schemes to break our Divine Ascent toward the Kingdom of Heaven.

But being a convert in the makings, I speak from a fool's perspective and would love gentle, educated feedback.

God Bless
I understand your concern.

For 16 years, I was mocked and told that I was being legalistic for wearing a headcovering only to receive Holy Communion. Note: I was not wearing this mantilla during the entire Divine Liturgy as the priest told me that there were some feminists present in the church who would give me dirty looks  should I dare to wear it for the entire Divine Liturgy or worse gossip about me while the sermon was being delivered. This did occur in the OCA, in the GOARCH, and in the Antiochian parishes that I visited because most of the women in those parishes were very concerned with their hair-do. Thus, to wear a scarf would positively flatten all the work they had done to prepare their hair for the Divine Liturgy. Oh, vanity of vanity.

Thus, I finally left the worldwide Orthodox jurisdictions and joined the traditional jurisdiction known as Genuine Church of Greece (GOC) under Kallinikos, where we pray the Canon of Holy Communion before coming to the Church. We simply do not have time to curl, spray, and prepare our hair for all the world to see. We come to church to worship and give thanks (Eucharist) to Christ, our Lord, God, and Savior.
 

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Maria said:
I understand your concern.

For 16 years, I was mocked and told that I was being legalistic for wearing a headcovering only to receive Holy Communion. Note: I was not wearing this mantilla during the entire Divine Liturgy as the priest told me that there were some feminists present in the church who would give me dirty looks  should I dare to wear it for the entire Divine Liturgy or worse gossip about me while the sermon was being delivered.
that's a shame.  that shouldn't be happening on either side of the issue -- the wearers OR those who don't.
 

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Tommelomsky said:
Yes and quite honestly, as of lately it has made me feel not so welcome around here anymore. Being reading The Orthodox Way by Bishop Kallistos Ware, I look for more of that brother and sisterhood that he expresses we all should be in here.

But please..do not misunderstand me, there are many great people around here, but there are also a lot of anger, hate and frustration.
Why is that?
I experienced anger, hate, and frustration while I was a catechumen too. It was like the feminist people in the parish felt threatened by me because I was willing to listen to the priest and be obedient. They, on the other hand, would not obey him, but instead would publicly deride the priest at every opportunity. In fact, these so-called "Orthodox Christians" kicked out their devout priests from the parish because they did not like to be told that they should frequent the sacrament of Holy Confession, where they feared a justified reprimand from the priest.
 

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Maria said:
Karaleighmum said:
You know, I have noticed a lot of the nonchalance associated with to wear a head covering or not to wear a head covering is justified with the "changing of the times"...might I pose the question, who is changing the times? For Our Father is an unchanging Holy God. Is it not true that this world is in the delusions of the Devil himself? I've witnessed first hand that while things may seem simple and pure of heart and intention, those are quite often the most unnoticed of Satan's schemes to break our Divine Ascent toward the Kingdom of Heaven.

But being a convert in the makings, I speak from a fool's perspective and would love gentle, educated feedback.

God Bless
I understand your concern.

For 16 years, I was mocked and told that I was being legalistic for wearing a headcovering only to receive Holy Communion. Note: I was not wearing this mantilla during the entire Divine Liturgy as the priest told me that there were some feminists present in the church who would give me dirty looks  should I dare to wear it for the entire Divine Liturgy or worse gossip about me while the sermon was being delivered. This did occur in the OCA, in the GOARCH, and in the Antiochian parishes that I visited because most of the women in those parishes were very concerned with their hair-do. Thus, to wear a scarf would positively flatten all the work they had done to prepare their hair for the Divine Liturgy. Oh, vanity of vanity.

Thus, I finally left the worldwide Orthodox jurisdictions and joined the traditional jurisdiction known as Genuine Church of Greece (GOC) under Kallinikos, where we pray the Canon of Holy Communion before coming to the Church. We simply do not have time to curl, spray, and prepare our hair for all the world to see. We come to church to worship and give thanks (Eucharist) to Christ, our Lord, God, and Savior.
I admire your pious faith sister. I hate that you had to go into schism because of what you encountered, we need people like you in our churches to straighten this stuff out and rid the church of evil modernist ideas!
 

Gunnarr

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Jonny said:
Upon attending the Divine Liturgy at the nearest Church to where I live my girlfriend was told to cover her head and we were told that I must stand on the right hand side of the Church and her on the left. I had assumed this was the usual practice until reading this thread! It did always strike me as a little strange...
it is the traditional practice
 

Karaleighmum

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Deep Roots said:
Maria said:
I understand your concern.

For 16 years, I was mocked and told that I was being legalistic for wearing a headcovering only to receive Holy Communion. Note: I was not wearing this mantilla during the entire Divine Liturgy as the priest told me that there were some feminists present in the church who would give me dirty looks  should I dare to wear it for the entire Divine Liturgy or worse gossip about me while the sermon was being delivered.
that's a shame.  that shouldn't be happening on either side of the issue -- the wearers OR those who don't.
i agree completely. The Lord wants us to love one another, not be cruel.
 

JamesR

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In regards to headcoverings, why does everyone seem to forget St. Paul's last words in regards to the issue? "But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God." I don't entirely understand what he means, but it seems to be indicating that if contention is brought due to the headcoverings issue, then the Churches should individually judge when and when not to require a woman to wear a headcovering. In which case, I'd say, why are headcoverings such a big issue to some people? Why not just allow the individual jurisdictions handle it in a way they see fit for their parishioners?
 

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Maria said:
Tommelomsky said:
Yes and quite honestly, as of lately it has made me feel not so welcome around here anymore. Being reading The Orthodox Way by Bishop Kallistos Ware, I look for more of that brother and sisterhood that he expresses we all should be in here.

But please..do not misunderstand me, there are many great people around here, but there are also a lot of anger, hate and frustration.
Why is that?
I experienced anger, hate, and frustration while I was a catechumen too. It was like the feminist people in the parish felt threatened by me because I was willing to listen to the priest and be obedient. They, on the other hand, would not obey him, but instead would publicly deride the priest at every opportunity. In fact, these so-called "Orthodox Christians" kicked out their devout priests from the parish because they did not like to be told that they should frequent the sacrament of Holy Confession, where they feared a justified reprimand from the priest.
Your post made me think. A good deal too and I feel so sad for the priest and other priests that has to go through similar responses. I am so glad that my parish is not like that, even if I sometimes notices that the russian speakers are a bit sceptic, but they have seen my face so many times now, that it has changed to curiousness. Hopefully soon, we will talk to each other instead.

Here, the parishoners are also being adviced to frequently use the sacrament of Holy confession, which I do look forward to as well.
So in that way, I suppose one fastly can be labeled as legalistic. But that is just fine. I can live with it.
 

PeterTheAleut

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biro said:
Nephi said:
biro said:
So, I'm a tool of the Devil, who is responsible for the changing times.

Say you, writing on *the Internet.*

Did they have computers in Moses' day?
The Convert Issues board is supposed to be a safe environment for converts to ask genuine questions without fear of derision. Is that so hard?
Derision? She, in my opinion, derided people who aren't as adherent to this practice as herself. I thought I was allowed to present a point of view too, because some of us don't appreciate the idea that those who don't wear coverings are socially susceptible to evil influences. If she makes a post, can't others respond to it? The practice of hair scarves for women isn't followed where I live. Hasn't been for a long time. If she wants to wear the covering, she can. But I disagreed with her reasoning on why some people don't wear it.

Thought that might be relevant.
Seeing that your current warning is precisely for exceeding the bounds of what is appropriate for you, a non-Orthodox Christian, to post on this Convert Issues section, I would think you'd be more careful to not get into any arguments with anyone here. What you are doing here on this thread borders on more of the same conduct that got you warned before, and if it continues, you will likely draw for yourself some time on post moderation. Again, referring back to the recently published board guidelines, only discussion without debate or polemics is permitted on Convert Issues, and only from the Orthodox point of view. Here you are permitted to clarify misconceptions about your faith, but you are not permitted to preach your faith or argue against the Orthodox faith. If you continue with your growing hostility on this section, you will be placed on post moderation, and your offending posts will be moved off this thread to a more appropriate location.

I hope I'm making myself clear. If not, please send Thomas, me, or any of the moderators a PM asking for clarification.

- PeterTheAleut
Moderator
 

Maria

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Karaleighmum said:
Deep Roots said:
Maria said:
I understand your concern.

For 16 years, I was mocked and told that I was being legalistic for wearing a headcovering only to receive Holy Communion. Note: I was not wearing this mantilla during the entire Divine Liturgy as the priest told me that there were some feminists present in the church who would give me dirty looks  should I dare to wear it for the entire Divine Liturgy or worse gossip about me while the sermon was being delivered.
that's a shame.  that shouldn't be happening on either side of the issue -- the wearers OR those who don't.
i agree completely. The Lord wants us to love one another, not be cruel.
Exactly, we are to forgive and to love one another as Christ has first loved us.
 

Alveus Lacuna

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I am honestly asking, not trolling: If women covering their hair is not theologically relevant anymore, then is it not permissible that men might wear a hat to church, as that also originally had theological grounding?
 
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