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Corona Virus Vaccine Poll

Will You Be Taking or Have You Already Had The Corona Virus Vaccine?


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Alpo2

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I will most certainly take vaccine once it's available. I want things get back to normal which won't happen without vaccinations. It won't happen anytime soon though as I'm not part of any kind of priority groups.
FWIW got first dose of Pfizer wednesday. My brother got Modena before me and got sore arm for several days but I got no issues. I guess it's up to person since I never get any side effects from blood donations either.
 

Ainnir

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Pfizer seems to cause fewer issues than Moderna, from everything I’ve heard.
 

Averoff

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Pfizer seems to cause fewer issues than Moderna, from everything I’ve heard.
That has been my experience. I received Pfizer and had almost no side effects. My friend got Moderna and experienced some mild flu-like symptoms.
 

Luke

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I was drained the day after I received the second Moderna shot but got better quickly.
 

PorphyriosK

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Wow, look. The conspiracy theorists were right and mainstream science is now proven to be filled with political propogandists with no interest in finding the truth.


"On February 19, 2020, The Lancet, among the most respected and influential medical journals in the world, published a statement that roundly rejected the lab-leak hypothesis, effectively casting it as a xenophobic cousin to climate change denialism and anti-vaxxism. Signed by 27 scientists, the statement expressed “solidarity with all scientists and health professionals in China” and asserted: “We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin"
 

Stinky

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Wow, look. The conspiracy theorists were right and mainstream science is now proven to be filled with political propogandists with no interest in finding the truth.


"On February 19, 2020, The Lancet, among the most respected and influential medical journals in the world, published a statement that roundly rejected the lab-leak hypothesis, effectively casting it as a xenophobic cousin to climate change denialism and anti-vaxxism. Signed by 27 scientists, the statement expressed “solidarity with all scientists and health professionals in China” and asserted: “We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin"
Thank you for this.
 

J Michael

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Wow, look. The conspiracy theorists were right and mainstream science is now proven to be filled with political propogandists with no interest in finding the truth.


"On February 19, 2020, The Lancet, among the most respected and influential medical journals in the world, published a statement that roundly rejected the lab-leak hypothesis, effectively casting it as a xenophobic cousin to climate change denialism and anti-vaxxism. Signed by 27 scientists, the statement expressed “solidarity with all scientists and health professionals in China” and asserted: “We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin"
"Follow the science." "Trust the science." Shame about the "scientists", though.

"Attacks on me, quite frankly, are attacks on science," Fauci told MSNBC’s Chuck Todd. "If you are trying to, you know, get at me as a public health official and a scientist, you're really attacking not only Dr. Anthony Fauci, you're attacking science, and anybody that looks at what is going on clearly sees that. You have to be asleep not to see that." https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/06/09/fauci_attacking_me_is_attacking_science.html#!
 

Arachne

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And now for some perspective from an actually reliable science information outlet.

 

hecma925

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The Atlantic? About as "reliable" as Vanity Fair. Just pick the perspective you like.
 

Ainnir

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biro

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Thank you for reminding me that I really need to get my flu shot as well. :)
 

Arachne

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The Atlantic? About as "reliable" as Vanity Fair. Just pick the perspective you like.
A lot more reliable, with a track record that goes back a long time. But it's still amusing to see people who consider Vanity Fair unreliable give themselves whiplash to proclaim 'HERE BE PROOF!' because the unreliable source published a piece that confirms their bias.
 

PorphyriosK

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A lot more reliable, with a track record that goes back a long time. But it's still amusing to see people who consider Vanity Fair unreliable give themselves whiplash to proclaim 'HERE BE PROOF!' because the unreliable source published a piece that confirms their bias.
Nah. Pretty much all of the usual biased journalistic rags across the world that people of your persuasion would normally rely on are being forced to acknowledge and report the truth in this instance in order to avoid complete and utter ruin and ridicule.
 

Arachne

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Nah. Pretty much all of the usual biased journalistic rags across the world that people of your persuasion would normally rely on are being forced to acknowledge and report the truth in this instance in order to avoid complete and utter ruin and ridicule.
Is that wishful thinking or you got links?
 

PorphyriosK

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Is that wishful thinking or you got links?




 

Arachne

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So the WaPo is a reliable source to you today? That whiplash must be something else.
 

PorphyriosK

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So the WaPo is a reliable source to you today? That whiplash must be something else.
Nope. That's the whole point. The corporate media and their chosen scientific representatives are being forced to backpedal and admit they were operating under irrational political bias, not seeking the objective truth. Hopefully you'll catch up with them someday.
 

Arachne

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Meanwhile, on the reliable media and credible science info outlets...



For those who'd rather listen than read, you got covered too.

 

PorphyriosK

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Meanwhile, on the reliable media and credible science info outlets...



For those who'd rather listen than read, you got covered too.

Doesn't matter. They've already admitted that they jumped the gun and unjustly and unlawfully buried and censored legitimate concerns and tried to control narratives based on irrational bias. The whole point is, when exactly are they *not* doing this and why do seemingly intelligent people like yourself continue to blindly shill for them?
 

Arachne

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I'm in favour of letting people do their work, scientists included. Some of us know how science research goes, a lot like you don't. As the podcast above says, repeatedly, for some people nothing will ever be evidence enough.
 

PorphyriosK

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I'm in favour of letting people do their work, scientists included. Some of us know how science research goes, a lot like you don't. As the podcast above says, repeatedly, for some people nothing will ever be evidence enough.
Being in favor of scientists doing their work means being in favor of absolute objectivity. Siding with those who have unapologetically censored and deleted unfavorable data that might affect their reputations or bank accounts is not objective.

Actual science questions popular narratives, and actual scientists don't behave like dogmatic corporate shills. They investigate all angles and all possibilities to find the truth, no matter how unpopular the outcome.
 

Arachne

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Being in favor of scientists doing their work means being in favor of absolute objectivity. Siding with those who have unapologetically censored and deleted unfavorable data that might affect their reputations or bank accounts is not objective.

Actual science questions popular narratives, and actual scientists don't behave like dogmatic corporate shills. They investigate all angles and all possibilities to find the truth, no matter how unpopular the outcome.
There's no such thing as absolute objectivity, because scientists are human too. Your idea of scientific research comes from Hollywood. The daily work is a lot messier than that, and the struggle to secure funding is hanging over everything. It's not the reality show that the clickbaity 'news' outlets have been trying to milk over the last 18 months.

I'll keep getting my info from sources who know what they're talking about (the top left corner here, and occasionally a step or so around it). You're welcome to abstain.
 

Averoff

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Unfortunately, the virus-initiation topic has become almost completely politicized. As a consequence it'll probably be decades before raw, unadulterated data is provided which points out where this virus originated. It's shameful that any group of scientists signed-on to a particular side of the debate before all the facts are in, but not surprising in the atmosphere we have today. What's even less surprising is journalists presented it as scientific fact when it's nothing but speculation at this point.

I have no idea where this virus originated, but it certainly behooves us to let the evidence take us where it may so we can learn and hopefully make changes in the world so this is less likely to happen again. How many millions of lives have been lost to this virus to date? You can't politicize a disease, it's mindless.
 

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Put your trust in God alone.
Science is funded.
 

J Michael

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The problem with proving whether or not the Chinese virus, in the form that spread across the world, originated in nature or in the lab is that the Chinese government (CCP) refuses to allow a truly independent and deep investigation into the origins. They have allegedly destroyed data and other information, pressured and "disappeared" scientists and others who haven't toed the party line, and so on. Sort of gives the impression that they have something to hide. And if they don't have something to hide, why not allow the investigation and cooperate fully?

St. Fauci has said that it's not in their (the CCP's) interest to have allowed a virus to escape or to have crassly released it on purpose as it would kill their own people. Since when has a communist government, especially the Chinese, been concerned with whether or not their own people die as long as their program is moving forward?

Anyway, this is from last September....

(I know, I know....Fox is biased and unreliable and unscientific and especially un-left-wing....I suppose Dr. Li-Meng Yan is also unreliable and unscientific and anti-CCP. Maybe...)
Here is a paper of hers, NOT peer-reviewed, and followed by another paper somewhat critical of her's.
file:///C:/Users/thebr/AppData/Local/Temp/The_Yan_Report.pdf
Unusual Features of theSARS-CoV-2Genome Suggesting SophisticatedLaboratory Modification Rather Than Natural Evolution andDelineation of ItsProbableSynthetic RouteLi-Meng Yan (MD, PhD)1, Shu Kang (PhD)1, Jie Guan (PhD)1, Shanchang Hu (PhD)11Rule of Law Society & Rule of Law Foundation, New York, NY, USA.Correspondence: team.lmyan@gmail.comAbstractThe COVID-19 pandemic caused by the novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 has led to over 910,000 deaths worldwide and unprecedented decimation of the global economy. Despite its tremendous impact, the origin of SARS-CoV-2 has remained mysterious and controversial. The natural origin theory, although widely accepted, lacks substantial support. The alternative theory that the virus may have come from a research laboratory is, however, strictly censored on peer-reviewed scientific journals. Nonetheless, SARS-CoV-2 shows biological characteristics that are inconsistent with a naturally occurring, zoonotic virus. In this report, we describe the genomic, structural, medical, and literature evidence, which, when considered together, strongly contradicts the natural origin theory. The evidence shows that SARS-CoV-2 should be a laboratory product created by using bat coronaviruses ZC45 and/or ZXC21 as a template and/or backbone. Building upon the evidence, we further postulate a synthetic route for SARS-CoV-2, demonstrating that the laboratory-creation of this coronavirus is convenient and can be accomplished in approximately six months. Our work emphasizes the need for an independent investigation into the relevant research laboratories. It also argues for a critical look into certain recently published data, which, albeit problematic, was used to support and claim a natural origin of SARS-CoV-2. From a public health perspective, these actions are necessary as knowledge of the origin of SARS-CoV-2 and of how the virus entered the human population are of pivotal importance in the fundamental control of the COVID-19 pandemic as well as in preventing similar, future pandemics.
And....
Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), the causative agent of novel coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), has caused more than 961,000 known deaths1 since it was reported to the World Health Organization on December 31, 2019. Determining the origin of the pandemic coronavirus is of great importance, not only to understand the mechanics of how the virus replicates and spreads but also to anticipate and prevent additional viruses from becoming future health security crises. If an origin can be found for SARS-CoV-2, steps can then be taken to prevent a similar pathway for other viruses to lead to a pandemic. For that reason, it is the responsibility of the scientific community to review and analyze data relating to the origin of SARS-CoV-2.Several analyses of the potential origin of SARS-CoV-2 have been published in scientific journalsthat provide peer review prior to publication.2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 Peer review is central to the scientific process because scrutiny by experts allows for meaningful conclusions to be drawn about available data and reduces inappropriate extrapolation or misinterpretation. It is an imperfect process, often criticized for slowness, but peer review is a necessary part of building reliability in the scientific record. Complex scientific details are best understood and critiqued by others who are also experts in a technical field. When the audience for an article is broadened, even to a technical audience in an adjacent scientific field, data may appear smoother and less conflicting than it is in reality, leading to a blurring or skewing of its real meaning.
Both of those papers are over my head. Maybe some of the more intelligent people here will understand them better than I.

I don't claim to know where the virus, in the form that spread across the world, originated. The CCP, I believe, has a duty to the rest of the world to be as open and transparent about it as is humanly possible, considering the enormous damage done medically, psychologically, economically, etc. all over the world. The fact that they certainly appear NOT to be interested in that only gives strength to the argument that the origins of the virus were not from nature. That, coupled with what certainly looks to be gain-of-function research conducted at Wuhan, partially financed by the US government through the NIH/NIAID by Drs. Fauci and Collins via Dr. Peter Daszak and EcoHealth Alliance, lends more and more credence, though not certainty, to the lab leak theory of origin.
 

Arachne

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(I know, I know....Fox is biased and unreliable and unscientific and especially un-left-wing....I suppose Dr. Li-Meng Yan is also unreliable and unscientific and anti-CCP. Maybe...)
As a matter of fact, yes.


When multiple Chinese scientists were declaring that Covid was not lab-created, they were being sneaky and had something to hide, but as soon as one says what you agree with, she's golden, right?
 

J Michael

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As a matter of fact, yes.


When multiple Chinese scientists were declaring that Covid was not lab-created, they were being sneaky and had something to hide, but as soon as one says what you agree with, she's golden, right?
Did I say she was "golden". I presented her interview with Tucker Carlson, a paper of hers, and a paper criticizing her paper. Maybe you missed those. If that makes her "golden", as you think I think of her, then so be it. And maybe, in your rush to diss me and her, you missed my last paragraph. Here it is again:
I don't claim to know where the virus, in the form that spread across the world, originated. The CCP, I believe, has a duty to the rest of the world to be as open and transparent about it as is humanly possible, considering the enormous damage done medically, psychologically, economically, etc. all over the world. The fact that they certainly appear NOT to be interested in that only gives strength to the argument that the origins of the virus were not from nature. That, coupled with what certainly looks to be gain-of-function research conducted at Wuhan, partially financed by the US government through the NIH/NIAID by Drs. Fauci and Collins via Dr. Peter Daszak and EcoHealth Alliance, lends more and more credence, though not certainty, to the lab leak theory of origin.
And yes...I do lean more towards the lab leak theory of origin than the "natural" theory of origin. But. I. Do. Not. Know. And neither, I'm pretty sure, do you.

There ARE two sides to this "argument", you know. Unfortunately, because the Chinese have not been and probably won't be forthcoming (why would they, after all?), we'll probably never really know the true origins. What we'll have is dueling hypotheses and theories, papers contradicting other papers, and people dissing others... because that's what we do these days. Lord, have mercy!
 

Arachne

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Go tell the conspiracy theorists who feel vindicated.
 

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Go tell the conspiracy theorists who feel vindicated.
Well....if there are any on this board, I just have, haven't I. And I won't hesitate and haven't hesitated to do so elsewhere when appropriate.

And there are "conspiracy theorists" on both sides of this matter. Even you could be considered to be one :LOL:.
 

Arachne

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And there are "conspiracy theorists" on both sides of this matter. Even you could be considered to be one :LOL:.
Absolutely! I totally buy into the decades-long conspiracy theory that vaccines work.
 

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God created the laws of science for our benefit. Pure science will eventually determine to the best of our abilities where this virus came from, but in the meantime political considerations will corrupt any investigation. It's a shame that everything is subject to political and ideological considerations these days but there it is. Reality isn't politically correct and that's not tolerated.
 

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Whether you support the conspiracy theory that vaccines "work" (and I think most people do, including me) or the conspiracy theory that they do not, this short video with Dr. Robert Malone, one of the inventors of mRNA vaccines, is fascinating. It's just over 12 minutes long and quite easy to follow--even for conspiracy theorists!

And here's a link to a 200 minute video with him and others. I haven't watched that and probably won't--too much other stuff to do.
Currently, the world's most important podcast is Bret Weinstein's Darkhorse Podcast because the host is focused on the world's most important problem: shenanigans surrounding COVID-19. On yesterday's episode, Bret hosted mRNA vaccine platform inventor Dr. Robert Malone, and also early COVID-19 treatment research funder (and tech entrepreneur) Steve Kirsch. There were a few bombshells, and I'd like to help clean up some of the debris. First, for those who haven't watched, that conversation is here:


(It's okay to listen on faster speed if 200 minutes of geek talk is a lot of investment.)
 

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Oooh, I hope they feature Katalin Karikó next!
 

hecma925

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I'm in favour of letting people do their work, scientists included.
Sometimes, researchers get sick.


Marion Koopmans, a Dutch virologist on that team told NBC News in March that some WIV staff did fall sick in the autumn of 2019, but she attributed that to regular, seasonal sickness.

“There were occasional illnesses because that’s normal. There was nothing that stood out,” she said. “Maybe one or two. It’s certainly not a big, big thing.”

It isn’t unusual for people in China to go straight to the hospital when they fall sick, either because they get better care there or lack access to a general practitioner. Covid-19 and the flu, while very different illnesses, share some of the same symptoms, such as fever, aches and a cough. Still, it could be significant if members of the same team working with coronaviruses went to hospital with similar symptoms shortly before the pandemic was first identified.

David Asher, a former U.S. official who led a State Department task force on the origins of the virus for then-Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, told a Hudson Institute seminar in March that he doubted that the lab researchers became sick because of the ordinary flu.

“I’m very doubtful that three people in highly protected circumstances in a level three laboratory working on coronaviruses would all get sick with influenza that put them in the hospital or in severe conditions all in the same week, and it didn’t have anything to do with the coronavirus,” he said, adding that the researchers’ illness may represent “the first known cluster” of Covid-19 cases.

Long characterized by skeptics as a conspiracy theory, the hypothesis that the pandemic could have begun with a lab accident has attracted more interest from scientists who have complained about the lack of transparency by Chinese authorities or conclusive proof for the alternate hypothesis: that the virus was contracted by humans from a bat or other infected animal outside a lab.
 

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