• Please remember: Pray for Ukraine in the Prayer forum; Share news in the Christian News section; Discuss religious implications in FFA: Religious Topics; Discuss political implications in Politics (and if you don't have access, PM me) Thank you! + Fr. George, Forum Administrator

Creation Museum Family Visit

ytterbiumanalyst

Merarches
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
8,785
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
37
Location
Springfield, MO
Theognosis said:
ytterbiumanalyst said:
Theognosis said:
No. Unlike the Space Program, SETI is driven by fantasy.
So said the detractors of those who wanted to split the atom.
Which is irrelevant, of course.  What exactly is your point?
That your point is irrelevant.

Theognosis said:
ytterbiumanalyst said:
Theognosis said:
Newton himself was a product of Creationist thought.
One word: Anachronism.
Newton dismisses evolutionary concepts in his writings.  He was way ahead of his time.  If you want me to quote him, I'll do it.
Newton, who lived in the seventeenth century, dismisses a theory that did not exist until the nineteenth. Anachronism.
 

PeterTheAleut

Hypatos
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Messages
37,280
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Age
51
Location
Portland, Oregon
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Orthodox Church in America
jnorm888 said:
Then Everyone who believes in God """must""" automatically believe in Creationism.
We who believe in God MUST believe in Creation, but we don't have to believe in Creationism.
 

seabeau

Newbie
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Pardon my inexperience in participating in on a discussion like this. Is there an official Orthodox interpretation of the creation story in the Bible?

I am not a scholar, or a theologian but I would dare to guess the “young” earth creationists are closer to the teaching of the Orthodox Church than any individual that denies the basic concepts that are given to us by God in the Bible. I would rather err in the direction of accepting the story literally or near literally than dismissing it out of hand.

If you dismiss Genesis, then why not dismiss the miracles in the book of John?

 

PeterTheAleut

Hypatos
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Messages
37,280
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Age
51
Location
Portland, Oregon
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Orthodox Church in America
seabeau said:
I am not a scholar, or a theologian but I would dare to guess the “young” earth creationists are closer to the teaching of the Orthodox Church than any individual that denies the basic concepts that are given to us by God in the Bible.
And I would dare to guess that your understanding of the teaching of the Orthodox Church on this matter is way out in left field. ;)  BTW, welcome to the forum. :)
 

Rastaman

Protokentarchos
Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
3,535
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Age
34
Location
Alberta, Canada
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Moscow Patriarchate
seabeau said:
Pardon my inexperience in participating in on a discussion like this. Is there an official Orthodox interpretation of the creation story in the Bible?

I am not a scholar, or a theologian but I would dare to guess the “young” earth creationists are closer to the teaching of the Orthodox Church than any individual that denies the basic concepts that are given to us by God in the Bible. I would rather err in the direction of accepting the story literally or near literally than dismissing it out of hand.

If you dismiss Genesis, then why not dismiss the miracles in the book of John?
Well, its debateable, hence why we are all here. The explanation that I adhere to, is that the Church has no dogmatized position on evolution vs. creationsim because it is not considered essential to our salvation. Whether one is a theistic evolutionist or a young earth creationist, we are all sinners, Christ died on the Cross to repair our fallen humanity, and we are all called to bear our Cross and follow Him.

On the other hand, the miracles in the Gospel of John can be taken as literal because they are neccessary for Salvation, they light our way to Our Lord and Saviour.
 

PeterTheAleut

Hypatos
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Messages
37,280
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Age
51
Location
Portland, Oregon
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Orthodox Church in America
greekischristian said:
No, not Viagra, that drug it owes its development more to molecular biology than to evolution and genetics; however, it is telling that you would try to so belittle that particular advancement of medicine. They didn't actually start out researching a treatment for Erictile Disfunction (not that there would have been anything wrong with them having done so), they were actually adapting a drug that treats hypertension to treat Coronary Artery Disease and Angina. Which Sildenafil Citrate (Viagra) actually does quite well...well enough that today it's actually used as a performance enhancing drug in certain endurace sports as it expands the arterial walls, notably improving blood flow, and thus increasing VO2 Max.
I knew there had to be another reason why Rafael Palmeiro advertised Viagra so much. ;)  Too bad that wasn't the only performance enhancing drug he used. ::)
 

Asteriktos

Strategos
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Messages
40,355
Reaction score
845
Points
113
Faith
-
Jurisdiction
-
If you dismiss Genesis, then why not dismiss the miracles in the book of John?
People are not trying to dismiss Genesis. Those who accept evolution are merely trying to discern what to take literally and what not to. Surely there are many things in Scripture that are not taken in a literal way; for a couple examples consider the parables of Christ and parts of the book of Revelation. The trick is discerning which parts to take literally and which parts to not take literally. And sometimes the literal and symbolic intertwine, making things that much more difficult. Consider Gen. 3:21:

"Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them."

At first this looks like something that can be taken literally. God "clothed" Adam and Eve with "coats of skin". Plain and simple, right? Yet, many Church Fathers also saw in this phrase "coats of skin" something entirely different, and understood the words symbolically (to mean various human things that effect us because of the fall, such as going to the bathroom). It could be literal, it could be symbolic, or it could be both. But if we start seeing something symbolic in the text, that doesn't mean that we are dismissing the text, or would dismiss other parts of the Scripture.
 

ytterbiumanalyst

Merarches
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
8,785
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
37
Location
Springfield, MO
Welcome to the forum, Seabeau!

seabeau said:
Is there an official Orthodox interpretation of the creation story in the Bible?
Yes. God created everything. That, as Forrest Gump said, is all we have to say about thayat.

 

greekischristian

Merarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
9,487
Reaction score
0
Points
36
PeterTheAleut said:
greekischristian said:
No, not Viagra, that drug it owes its development more to molecular biology than to evolution and genetics; however, it is telling that you would try to so belittle that particular advancement of medicine. They didn't actually start out researching a treatment for Erictile Disfunction (not that there would have been anything wrong with them having done so), they were actually adapting a drug that treats hypertension to treat Coronary Artery Disease and Angina. Which Sildenafil Citrate (Viagra) actually does quite well...well enough that today it's actually used as a performance enhancing drug in certain endurace sports as it expands the arterial walls, notably improving blood flow, and thus increasing VO2 Max.
I knew there had to be another reason why Rafael Palmeiro advertised Viagra so much. ;)  Too bad that wasn't the only performance enhancing drug he used. ::)
Eh...the guy popped a little provigil and winny, nothing to get too excited over. Considering what it can do to joints, the winny probably did more harm than good.
 

Asteriktos

Strategos
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Messages
40,355
Reaction score
845
Points
113
Faith
-
Jurisdiction
-
Nevermind this post... I accidentally reposted info that had already been posted  :)
 

Papist

Toumarches
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
13,772
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Age
41
Location
Albuquerque, New Mexico
greekischristian said:
livefreeordie said:
Did you learn this from a Holy Father, one of the saints, or maybe Joseph Goebbels? ;)
Originally from Herr Goebbels, of course; though you can, to an extent, find it in Cicero as well. I have read many diverse sources in the arts of rhetoric and propaganda.

Propaganda and ridicule put Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals in the gas chamber, Christians in the lions den and African Americans in slavery. GIC, I would think you could have come up with a technique a little more subtle and original! Of course, it is a proven technique. ;)
So, at least you understand that it works and can see where I'm coming from...and the only reason that it's obvious is because I admited as much (this honesty is my great fault ;)), had I not done so you would never have expected that my source was Joseph Goebbels himself...I could have easily been dismissed as just another anti-religious arrogant intellectual who hasn't thought his arguments through. ;D

Personally, I like Christ's example better.  You endure ridicule and propaganda, then you change the world.
Good luck with that one. I'm thinking that divinity may be a prerequisite to that approach.

I'm intrigued. Looking back through your posts, it seems your "GOD" is logic.  Is that accurate at all?
Kinda, I have made no secret of my neo-platonic leanings, the One is the source and essence of all things which naturally begets the Logos, which is in large part the Reason and Logic behind these things which eminate forth from the One.
An Atheistic-Platonist. How interesting. Please exand.
 

prodromas

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
1,239
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
32
Location
Victoria, Australia
Papist said:
greekischristian said:
livefreeordie said:
Did you learn this from a Holy Father, one of the saints, or maybe Joseph Goebbels? ;)
Originally from Herr Goebbels, of course; though you can, to an extent, find it in Cicero as well. I have read many diverse sources in the arts of rhetoric and propaganda.

Propaganda and ridicule put Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals in the gas chamber, Christians in the lions den and African Americans in slavery. GIC, I would think you could have come up with a technique a little more subtle and original! Of course, it is a proven technique. ;)
So, at least you understand that it works and can see where I'm coming from...and the only reason that it's obvious is because I admited as much (this honesty is my great fault ;)), had I not done so you would never have expected that my source was Joseph Goebbels himself...I could have easily been dismissed as just another anti-religious arrogant intellectual who hasn't thought his arguments through. ;D

Personally, I like Christ's example better.  You endure ridicule and propaganda, then you change the world.
Good luck with that one. I'm thinking that divinity may be a prerequisite to that approach.

I'm intrigued. Looking back through your posts, it seems your "GOD" is logic.  Is that accurate at all?
Kinda, I have made no secret of my neo-platonic leanings, the One is the source and essence of all things which naturally begets the Logos, which is in large part the Reason and Logic behind these things which eminate forth from the One.
An Atheistic-Platonist. How interesting. Please exand.
Lol sorry Papist. For GiCs sake I will answer. He is not an Atheist but a Deist as he has stated many times :D.
 

TheTrisagion

Hoplitarches
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
18,025
Reaction score
391
Points
83
Age
43
Location
PA, USA
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antiochian
I drag this thread out of retirement to announce that despite my previous belief that the Creation museum could not be any more ridiculous, they are now adding a "secular" portion to the park complete with zip lines, sky bridges and a dragon exhibit.  Apparently, I was wrong.  :p

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/05/creation-museum-zip-lines_n_3391857.html
 

Arachne

Matriarch
Staff member
Moderator
Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
13,056
Reaction score
760
Points
113
Age
50
Location
Camulodunum
Faith
Cradle Greek Orthodox. Cope.
Jurisdiction
Antiochian Archdiocese, UK
We can smell the desperation from the other side of the pond here... and we're planning another visit to the Natural History Museum in London for the summer. :)
 

JamesR

Taxiarches
Joined
Nov 4, 2011
Messages
6,924
Reaction score
2
Points
38
Age
26
Location
The Underground
Faith
Christian
Jurisdiction
OCA
Having Young Earth Creationist parents really is a drag. For starters, you can't watch Science Channel or any of the BBC nature documentaries in front of them because evolution and "millions of years" is always mentioned.
 

podkarpatska

Merarches
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
9,732
Reaction score
3
Points
0
Location
Northeast United States
Website
www.acrod.org
JamesR said:
Having Young Earth Creationist parents really is a drag. For starters, you can't watch Science Channel or any of the BBC nature documentaries in front of them because evolution and "millions of years" is always mentioned.
It could be worse, they could belong to the Flat Earth Society as well.
 

biro

Protostrator
Site Supporter
Warned
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
24,415
Reaction score
751
Points
113
Age
49
Location
Here
Faith
No
Jurisdiction
No
primuspilus said:
I love reading the comments from the spouters of "tolerance". Seriously. Those that left comments REALLY hate those not like themselves.

PP
::)
 

primuspilus

Taxiarches
Joined
May 27, 2011
Messages
7,990
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
43
Location
A displaced Southerner in the Godless North
Website
www.saintgregorythetheologian.org
Faith
Greek Orthodox (former WR)
Jurisdiction
Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Boston
biro said:
primuspilus said:
I love reading the comments from the spouters of "tolerance". Seriously. Those that left comments REALLY hate those not like themselves.

PP
::)
What? It'd be one thing bashing the idea of the creationist museum beliefs, but those people were getting personal.

PP
 

TheTrisagion

Hoplitarches
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
18,025
Reaction score
391
Points
83
Age
43
Location
PA, USA
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antiochian
primuspilus said:
biro said:
primuspilus said:
I love reading the comments from the spouters of "tolerance". Seriously. Those that left comments REALLY hate those not like themselves.

PP
::)
What? It'd be one thing bashing the idea of the creationist museum beliefs, but those people were getting personal.

PP
Which people are you referencing?
 

primuspilus

Taxiarches
Joined
May 27, 2011
Messages
7,990
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
43
Location
A displaced Southerner in the Godless North
Website
www.saintgregorythetheologian.org
Faith
Greek Orthodox (former WR)
Jurisdiction
Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Boston
TheTrisagion said:
primuspilus said:
biro said:
primuspilus said:
I love reading the comments from the spouters of "tolerance". Seriously. Those that left comments REALLY hate those not like themselves.

PP
::)
What? It'd be one thing bashing the idea of the creationist museum beliefs, but those people were getting personal.

PP
Which people are you referencing?
The commentors at the bottom of the article.

PP
 
Top