• For users new and old: the forum rules were streamlined when we transitioned to the new software. Please ensure that you are familiar with them. Continued use of the forum means that you (a) know the rules, and (b) pledge that you'll abide by them. For more information, check out the OrthodoxChristianity.Net Rules section. (There are only 2 threads there - Rules, and Administrative Structure.)

Creationism, Evolution, and Orthodoxy

Do you believe that the acount of genesis in the Old testament should be taken literally?

  • Yes

    Votes: 78 17.5%
  • No

    Votes: 164 36.8%
  • both metaphorically and literally

    Votes: 204 45.7%

  • Total voters
    446

Stinky

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
1,882
Reaction score
757
Points
113
Location
US
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Near/far
Creation, Early Man, and Evolution | According to Modern Holy Fathers




Introduction


0:38 Fr. Seraphim Rose, Hieromonk of Platina, California (+1982) – Basic presuppositions for knowledge of creation and early man.

4:33 St. Ignatius Brianchaninov, Bishop of the Caucasus and Stavropol (+1867) – The state of creation before the Fall of Adam.

6:55 St. Hilarion (Troitsky), Hieromartyr and Archbishop of Verey (+1929) – The Church’s view leads to humility, the secular view leads to pride.

10:38 St. Nikolai (Velimirovic), Bishop of Zica (+1956) – “Death is Unnatural”

13:32 St. Justin (Popovic) of Celije (+1979) – How man and the rest of creation are inseparable. When man fell, all of creation fell.

15:22 St. Ambrose of Optina (+1891) – “Don’t believe at face value all kinds of nonsense…” 15:46 St. John of Kronstadt (+1908) – True knowledge and the over-educated.

16:49 St. Vladimir, Hieromartyr and Metropolitan of Kiev and Gallich (+1918) – Do not listen to teachings of unbelief for they “promise you nothing but despair and an inconsolable life.”

18:44 St. Theophan the Recluse, Bishop of Tambov (+1894) – Evolution is anathema, along with other secular Western philosophies, and only a pure nous can accurately contemplate divine reality.

29:19 St. Barsanuphius of Optina (+1913) – The moral ramifications of evolutionist philosophy.

30:05 St. Nectarios, Metropolitan of Pentapolis and Wonderworker of Aegina (+1920) – “Without the acceptance of revealed truth, man will remain an insoluble problem.”

31:42 Fr. Seraphim Rose (+1982) – Knowledge of creation and early man can only be obtained by divine illumination. (Editor’s Note: This essentially repeats his teaching from the beginning, but it is kept here since it is so key to our understanding.)

34:26 St. Luke the Surgeon, Archbishop of Simferopol (+1961) – Evolutionary theory is not only contradictory to the Scripture, but to nature itself. 35:54 St. Sophrony (Sakharov) the Athonite (+1993) – The absurdity of evolutionary theory.

36:57 St. Paisios of Mount Athos (+1994) – Monkeys are far from humans; evolutionary theory is blasphemy. 41:31 St. Justin (Popovic) of Celije (+1979) – His letter to a theology student asking about evolution in which he focuses on the impact of evolution on the Orthodoxy doctrine of salvation.

46:35 Fr. Seraphim Rose (+1982) – Brief overview of the keys to the Patristic understanding.

52:44 Hymns from Vigil of the Sunday of Forgiveness, The Casting Out of Adam from Paradise

54:33 Hymn from the Feast of the Elevation of the Holy Cross
Lord have mercy on us and keep us in Your Truth and Light.
 

Arachne

Matriarch
Staff member
Moderator
Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
12,799
Reaction score
461
Points
83
Age
49
Location
Camulodunum
Faith
Cradle Greek Orthodox. Cope.
Jurisdiction
Antiochian Archdiocese, UK
I would much rather call it learning rather than debating. And since we are on the topic, do you know how long, in scientific terms is an aion?
Can you fit it on a calendar year or is it shorter, or longer?
The original meaning of the word is 'a lifetime'. Which means (a) it's not in any way a set period of time, and (b) it begs the question: whose lifetime?
 

Ainnir

Taxiarches
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
7,387
Reaction score
756
Points
113
Age
38
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antiochian
Or what? Mayflies live for 24 hours. 😁
 

Arachne

Matriarch
Staff member
Moderator
Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
12,799
Reaction score
461
Points
83
Age
49
Location
Camulodunum
Faith
Cradle Greek Orthodox. Cope.
Jurisdiction
Antiochian Archdiocese, UK
Or what? Mayflies live for 24 hours. 😁
And, for the record, the maximum natural human lifespan (what is codified in our DNA) is 38 years - anything beyond that is extension thanks to environmental intervention. Most of us are on borrowed time already. :cool:
 

Tzimis

Taxiarches
Site Supporter
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
5,519
Reaction score
198
Points
63
Location
wilderness
Faith
Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction
EP
And, for the record, the maximum natural human lifespan (what is codified in our DNA) is 38 years - anything beyond that is extension thanks to environmental intervention. Most of us are on borrowed time already. :cool:
That number is tossed around to make the medical community look like heroes. Truth is they factor in infant mortality and skew the numbers. People use to live to 80+ before modern medicine ever made it the seen.
 

Arachne

Matriarch
Staff member
Moderator
Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
12,799
Reaction score
461
Points
83
Age
49
Location
Camulodunum
Faith
Cradle Greek Orthodox. Cope.
Jurisdiction
Antiochian Archdiocese, UK
That number is tossed around to make the medical community look like heroes. Truth is they factor in infant mortality and skew the numbers. People use to live to 80+ before modern medicine ever made it the seen.
That number is derived from observing when DNA methylation begins, and allows us to estimate the lifespans of extinct species as well. All genetic analysis, no statistics. Neanderthals and Denisovans had methylation kick in at 37 - we haven't evolved that much.

It's telling that environmental = medical in your understanding, though.
 

Stinky

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
1,882
Reaction score
757
Points
113
Location
US
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Near/far
Screenshot_20210211-112415.png


Image resized. --Ainnir
 

Tzimis

Taxiarches
Site Supporter
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
5,519
Reaction score
198
Points
63
Location
wilderness
Faith
Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction
EP
That number is derived from observing when DNA methylation begins, and allows us to estimate the lifespans of extinct species as well. All genetic analysis, no statistics. Neanderthals and Denisovans had methylation kick in at 37 - we haven't evolved that much.

It's telling that environmental = medical in your understanding, though.
Your Greek right? At what age do Greeks celibate there half life?
 

Arachne

Matriarch
Staff member
Moderator
Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
12,799
Reaction score
461
Points
83
Age
49
Location
Camulodunum
Faith
Cradle Greek Orthodox. Cope.
Jurisdiction
Antiochian Archdiocese, UK
Your Greek right? At what age do Greeks celibate there half life?
You mean when midlife crisis sets in? Right after graduating university.
 

Ainnir

Taxiarches
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
7,387
Reaction score
756
Points
113
Age
38
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antiochian
I guess the over the hill thing? I think it's 50 here now; it used to be 40. Is that a thing in other cultures?
 

Tzimis

Taxiarches
Site Supporter
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
5,519
Reaction score
198
Points
63
Location
wilderness
Faith
Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction
EP
You mean when midlife crisis sets in? Right after graduating university.
Counting numbers is kinda self evident and only requires an elementary school education. Regardless, Its actually surprising what our school system is producing these days. Its not a wonder why there are so many advocates for loan forgiveness.
 

Tzimis

Taxiarches
Site Supporter
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
5,519
Reaction score
198
Points
63
Location
wilderness
Faith
Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction
EP
I guess the over the hill thing? I think it's 50 here now; it used to be 40. Is that a thing in other cultures?
40 is actually the mile stone in Greek culture. I guess people in America think that pumping up with high quality pharmaceuticals has extended that.
 

hecma925

Orthodox Taliban
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
21,477
Reaction score
1,000
Points
113
Age
160
Location
Wandering Fool
Faith
Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
Jurisdiction
Enemy State Orthodox Church Abroad
It's all fake. "30 is the new 20" when I was young. "40 is the new 30!" has been around for quite a bit. Anything to make boomers and Gen-Xers feel better about ignoring the inevitable. One gets old and one dies. You don't have to like it; just accept it and move on.
 

Jude1:3

High Elder
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
553
Reaction score
67
Points
28
Location
USA
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
"The attack of modern atheistic thought on Christianity has been so effective that many Orthodox Christians are defensive and feel inferior about their own Orthodox wisdom and are very willing to admit that there is truth and wisdom to be found in modern secular knowledge about which Orthodoxy has "no opinion.
They thus undervalue the immeasurably rich tradition of the Holy Fathers, which gives us Christian wisdom not by any means only on narrow ecclesiastical or theological subjects, but on much else.
Patristic wisdom comprises an Orthodox Christian's whole philosophy of life, including his attitude toward modern conveniences, scientific knowledge, and other things which did not exist in their modern form in the lifetimes of the Holy Fathers of the past."

- Fr Seraphim Rose
 

Ainnir

Taxiarches
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
7,387
Reaction score
756
Points
113
Age
38
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antiochian
Is that in the book I'm reading?
 

hecma925

Orthodox Taliban
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
21,477
Reaction score
1,000
Points
113
Age
160
Location
Wandering Fool
Faith
Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
Jurisdiction
Enemy State Orthodox Church Abroad
The narrator's voice is grating to my ear.
 

Christos3

Sr. Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
221
Reaction score
66
Points
28
Location
USA
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
OCA
I have found "Answers in Genesis" a good source for supporting Creationism. Actually, the best support is the word of God. Starting with Genesis 1:1.
 
Top