Creationism, Evolution, and Orthodoxy

Do you believe that the acount of genesis in the Old testament should be taken literally?

  • Yes

    Votes: 73 16.8%
  • No

    Votes: 163 37.6%
  • both metaphorically and literally

    Votes: 198 45.6%

  • Total voters
    434

Friul

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jnorm888 said:
Dr. Douglas Jacoby calls himself an "Evolutionary Creationist". Now I don't know if that is his own personal term for himself, but it seemed more like "Theistic Evolution" to me. Maybe he just didn't know about the term "Theistic evolution", and just wanted to try out a new term. I don't know
I've heard both terms used fairly often, but they usually speak more about the individuals background rather than their view on evolution.  I find Evolutionary Creationist is mentioned within certain protestant circles (one of the reasons I believe they emphasise creationism in the term), while Theistic Evolution is much more common in Anglican, Orthodox and Roman Catholic circles.
 

minasoliman

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Nebelpfade said:
jnorm888 said:
Dr. Douglas Jacoby calls himself an "Evolutionary Creationist". Now I don't know if that is his own personal term for himself, but it seemed more like "Theistic Evolution" to me. Maybe he just didn't know about the term "Theistic evolution", and just wanted to try out a new term. I don't know
I've heard both terms used fairly often, but they usually speak more about the individuals background rather than their view on evolution.  I find Evolutionary Creationist is mentioned within certain protestant circles (one of the reasons I believe they emphasise creationism in the term), while Theistic Evolution is much more common in Anglican, Orthodox and Roman Catholic circles.
Interesting.  That's the first time I heard that term.
 

PeterTheAleut

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FormerReformer said:
My main problems with scientific explanations about the origins of the universe is that modern science assumes too many constants in an entropic universe.
Would you care to explain what you mean by this?
 

Iconodule

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Has anyone else here read Philip Sherrard's books, "Human Image: World Image" or "Rape of Man and Nature"? If not, I would highly recommend them. They reveal some fundamental philosophical problems between modern science and Christianity, going way beyond the creationism vs. evolution debate. In fact, both sides of the debate tend to rely on the dualist mindset that he critiques. There is a genuine Christian critique of modern science, Darwinism, etc., which has nothing to do with "fundamentalism".
 

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The following started HERE in Faith Issues  -PtA


Exo 20:8  Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9  Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10  But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11  For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
(from the ten commandments.)
Does the orthodox church believe that God made Heaven and earth and all that in them is in six days then rested on the seventh as the ten commandment says?
please don't tell me that 6 days is really longer than 24 hour days,because the Jews would have been working for from day 1 and 2 thousands of years, and maybe even millions of years before taking the sabbath day, for those who want to reconcile scripture to the world.

Personally I can't become roman catholic because they compromised the early church and ancient Israel's belief, with the world, they gave up, they no longer believe in 6 days, but in the first millennium God made this, then the second millennium God made this, if the orthodox can't even belief the first chapter of the Bible without worldy athiestic interpretation, then I might as well not be orthodox, not even christian anything.
 

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Then again, the account also calls "the evening and the morning" a day. So far I've never met anyone, Jews included, who call an evening and a morning a day. Traditionally, a day is calculated from sunset to sunset, not from sunset to sunrise.All throughout history there have been those who read the Genesis story as elevated prose and those who interpreted it literally. The allegorical approach is nothing new. What is new is making a lucrative business out of a literal reading of Genesis Chapter One.
 

ialmisry

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Christianus said:
Exo 20:8  Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9  Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10  But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11  For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
(from the ten commandments.)
Does the orthodox church believe that God made Heaven and earth and all that in them is in six days then rested on the seventh as the ten commandment says?
please don't tell me that 6 days is really longer than 24 hour days,because the Jews would have been working for from day 1 and 2 thousands of years, and maybe even millions of years before taking the sabbath day, for those who want to reconcile scripture to the world.

Personally I can't become roman catholic because they compromised the early church and ancient Israel's belief, with the world, they gave up, they no longer believe in 6 days, but in the first millennium God made this, then the second millennium God made this, if the orthodox can't even belief the first chapter of the Bible without worldy athiestic interpretation, then I might as well not be orthodox, not even christian anything.
Your loss.

As Rosehip says, this allegorical interpretation is neither atheist, nor modern. It is quite old. For one thing, how was there literal evening and morning before the creation of the sun?
 

LizaSymonenko

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...besides...if this is what you base your "Christianity" on...then you are completely missing what truly is Christianity.

Take a deep breath...and begin, again.

 

Christianus

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ialmisry said:
Christianus said:
Exo 20:8  Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9  Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10  But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11  For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
(from the ten commandments.)
Does the orthodox church believe that God made Heaven and earth and all that in them is in six days then rested on the seventh as the ten commandment says?
please don't tell me that 6 days is really longer than 24 hour days,because the Jews would have been working for from day 1 and 2 thousands of years, and maybe even millions of years before taking the sabbath day, for those who want to reconcile scripture to the world.

Personally I can't become roman catholic because they compromised the early church and ancient Israel's belief, with the world, they gave up, they no longer believe in 6 days, but in the first millennium God made this, then the second millennium God made this, if the orthodox can't even belief the first chapter of the Bible without worldy athiestic interpretation, then I might as well not be orthodox, not even christian anything.
Your loss.

As Rosehip says, this allegorical interpretation is neither atheist, nor modern. It is quite old. For one thing, how was there literal evening and morning before the creation of the sun?
Gen 1:3  And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
you can be in a dark cave, and there' will still be time even though there's no sun there.
Rev 22:5  And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
 

ialmisry

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Christianus said:
ialmisry said:
Christianus said:
Exo 20:8  Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9  Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10  But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11  For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
(from the ten commandments.)
Does the orthodox church believe that God made Heaven and earth and all that in them is in six days then rested on the seventh as the ten commandment says?
please don't tell me that 6 days is really longer than 24 hour days,because the Jews would have been working for from day 1 and 2 thousands of years, and maybe even millions of years before taking the sabbath day, for those who want to reconcile scripture to the world.

Personally I can't become roman catholic because they compromised the early church and ancient Israel's belief, with the world, they gave up, they no longer believe in 6 days, but in the first millennium God made this, then the second millennium God made this, if the orthodox can't even belief the first chapter of the Bible without worldy athiestic interpretation, then I might as well not be orthodox, not even christian anything.
Your loss.

As Rosehip says, this allegorical interpretation is neither atheist, nor modern. It is quite old. For one thing, how was there literal evening and morning before the creation of the sun?
Gen 1:3  And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
you can be in a dark cave, and there' will still be time even though there's no sun there.
Evening and morning does not come with me going in and coming out of a cave.  If you think otherwise, you are in a very dark cave.


Rev 22:5  And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
You just proved the allegorical point.
 

Christianus

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Rosehip said:
Then again, the account also calls "the evening and the morning" a day. So far I've never met anyone, Jews included, who call an evening and a morning a day. Traditionally, a day is calculated from sunset to sunset, not from sunset to sunrise.All throughout history there have been those who read the Genesis story as elevated prose and those who interpreted it literally. The allegorical approach is nothing new. What is new is making a lucrative business out of a literal reading of Genesis Chapter One.
actually it can be translated or actually says day one, not a day.
Gen 1:5  And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Gen 1:5  appellavitque lucem diem et tenebras noctem factumque est vespere et mane dies unus
Gen 1:5  καὶ ἐκάλεσεν ὁ θεὸς τὸ φῶς ἡμέραν καὶ τὸ σκότος ἐκάλεσεν νύκτα. καὶ ἐγένετο ἑσπέρα καὶ ἐγένετο πρωί, ἡμέρα μία.
The Greek says Day one ἠμέρα μία, so does Latin day one, then it says the second day.
 

88Devin12

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Are you honestly inquiring or trying to convince us that we are wrong? I'm confused...  ???
 

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88Devin12 said:
Are you honestly inquiring or trying to convince us that we are wrong? I'm confused...  ???
I want a return to the in six days God created heaven and earth and all that in them is.
Evolution which is a new influence in the church and doesn't believe in God the Creator, is not even as old as creationism.
I just want a return to pre-evolution creationism.

and that's why I'm asking if the orthodox church believe in it. I"ve heard that they don't force you to believe either side.
 

LizaSymonenko

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Orthodoxy will never "force" you to do anything.  The Church will try to educate you and to help you along in your understanding, however, nothing is ever forced upon you.  Christ never forced anyone to do or believe anything....He simply explained it to them...where they could see and accept His logic (or not).

If you are asking if the Orthodox Church supports evolution in the sense that mankind evolved from chimps, then NO, the Church does NOT hold to this thinking.

God created mankind.

 

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LizaSymonenko said:
Orthodoxy will never "force" you to do anything.  The Church will try to educate you and to help you along in your understanding, however, nothing is ever forced upon you.  Christ never forced anyone to do or believe anything....He simply explained it to them...where they could see and accept His logic (or not).

If you are asking if the Orthodox Church supports evolution in the sense that mankind evolved from chimps, then NO, the Church does NOT hold to this thinking.

God created mankind.
thanks, doesn't the roman church believe in chimp to man evolution, and also in the possibility of alien life (not really based on science, but science fiction books, and conspiracy theories in my opinion?
 

88Devin12

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I just want a return to pre-evolution creationism.
You want this, but is this issue something necessary for salvation, or is it simply an issue that you believe is important and you believe everyone else should adopt because you believe it's correct?

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but you are being very critical, look at the Nicene Creed, that is what we MUST believe. Almost anything else is pretty much up to debate since it won't affect our salvation...

As Liza said, the church doesn't force you to do anything, it's your choice... The only thing you have to believe is that God created all things...

Again, the Church doesn't force you to do anything... However to be Orthodox, you must accept the Creed. If you choose not to believe what the Church says you need to, then that means you are separating yourself from the Church.
 

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yeah Evolution says that there was death before man (you know like the dinosaurs).
1Co 15:21  For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
but the Bible says that man brought death, but survival of the fittest (avoiding death) says death or evolution brought everyone here.
these two world views are very different, and I find it impossible to reconcile the two without giving up alot of what we believe.
 

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88Devin12 said:
I just want a return to pre-evolution creationism.
You want this, but is this issue something necessary for salvation, or is it simply an issue that you believe is important and you believe everyone else should adopt because you believe it's correct?

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but you are being very critical, look at the Nicene Creed, that is what we MUST believe. Almost anything else is pretty much up to debate since it won't affect our salvation...

As Liza said, the church doesn't force you to do anything, it's your choice... The only thing you have to believe is that God created all things...

Again, the Church doesn't force you to do anything... However to be Orthodox, you must accept the Creed. If you choose not to believe what the Church says you need to, then that means you are separating yourself from the Church.
The Nicene creed mentions creationism:
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
 

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Christianus said:
and that's why I'm asking if the orthodox church believe in it. I"ve heard that they don't force you to believe either side.
Well, you're quite likely to get a full range of ideas. (I see someone has already posted the beginning of this thought, but here it is anyway) The Nicene Creed teaches "...one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible; and in one Lord, Jesus Christ...by Whom all things were made; in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of Life...." Beyond that, I'm not aware of any "Thou shalt believe..."

As for myself, it constantly amazes me that it took a whole six days for God to create the earth. He could just as easily have simply snapped His fingers, so to speak, and caused the entire universe to come into existence. But He didn't. He took the time and trouble and care to prepare this physical home for us, albeit temporary. It's clear enough that God cares for me as part of His creation. It really doesn't matter to me whether He took six milliseconds or six gazillion centuries to create the universe. You might want to ask yourself why it matters to you.
 
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