sprtslvr1973
High Elder
Hew do you answer the apparently legitimate criticism from atheists that say the God of Deuteronomy and Leviticus is a cruel sadist much like Muslim Allah?
Why would they say that?sprtslvr1973 said:Hew do you answer the apparently legitimate criticism from atheists that say the God of Deuteronomy and Leviticus is a cruel sadist much like Muslim Allah?
If it's "apparently legitimate" can you make it apparent to me?sprtslvr1973 said:Hew do you answer the apparently legitimate criticism from atheists that say the God of Deuteronomy and Leviticus is a cruel sadist much like Muslim Allah?
A problem with Semitic perspective. Allah needs Greek influence.sprtslvr1973 said:Hew do you answer the apparently legitimate criticism from atheists that say the God of Deuteronomy and Leviticus is a cruel sadist much like Muslim Allah?
I would challenge that Koran bests the OT in terms of Divine cruelty. I am not sure why people think the God of the OT is "crueler" than the God of the NT. If people thought through the Gospel they might wish they hadn't heard it and were deemed righteous Gentiles by the old covenant Jews.sprtslvr1973 said:Hew do you answer the apparently legitimate criticism from atheists that say the God of Deuteronomy and Leviticus is a cruel sadist much like Muslim Allah?
For all your love of paleophilosophy, you sure do have a lot of gaps in your knowledge of it.Porter ODoran said:ITT: Folks with no particular knowledge of the Greek gods. The first Greek supreme god ate his children, and raped his wife so frequently her remaining sons felt bound to kill him. The Spartans sang hymns to hallow the memory of the ban under which they had placed the peoples who had preceded them, killing men, women, and children, and enslaving survivors -- once a year they would go forth among the slaves and again kill men, women, and children as a pious act. Lying was esteemed one of the greatest virtues of man, and even so sophisticated a Greek as Aristotle "proved" from theology that the strong should rule the weak, that the gods have created the majority of man to suffer, die at the hands of warriors, and be bound in perpetual slavery.
Fully Human and fully God.Porter ODoran said:posting blanket statements presupposing that our God is a synthesis of the invention of various tribes of men?
I don't know if they aren't reading it carefully as opposed to schizophrenically. Orthodox and the rest of doctrinal Christianity attempts to gloss the "Old Testament" in terms of the New. A profound mistake as far as I'm concerned. Nor is righteousness a important trait except in the commentary and the Sayings of Jesus, which are a different body of texts from the gospel.orthonorm said:I would challenge that Koran bests the OT in terms of Divine cruelty. I am not sure why people think the God of the OT is "crueler" than the God of the NT. If people thought through the Gospel they might wish they hadn't heard it and were deemed righteous Gentiles by the old covenant Jews.sprtslvr1973 said:Hew do you answer the apparently legitimate criticism from atheists that say the God of Deuteronomy and Leviticus is a cruel sadist much like Muslim Allah?
To Alveus' point, the Greeks did a lot, and successfully, to rehabilitate the God of the Bible into their poor understanding of early Greek though,, so that people think that Jesus Loves Me is beginning and end of the whole,story nowadays.
In short, I think no one is reading the Bible very carefully, or at all if they don't have that most oft chronicled feeling towards God by those who are righteous, that of fear.
If the righteous fear God, how ought we feel?
You miss my point, the God of the NT is arguably more cruel, to use the wording above. Sounds like you need to reread those gospels and explain to me how after hearing them you are aren't better off being a decent gentile while the God of the OT concerned himself with Israel.nothing said:I don't know if they aren't reading it carefully as opposed to schizophrenically. Orthodox and the rest of doctrinal Christianity attempts to gloss the "Old Testament" in terms of the New. A profound mistake as far as I'm concerned. Nor is righteousness a important trait except in the commentary and the Sayings of Jesus, which are a different body of texts from the gospel.orthonorm said:I would challenge that Koran bests the OT in terms of Divine cruelty. I am not sure why people think the God of the OT is "crueler" than the God of the NT. If people thought through the Gospel they might wish they hadn't heard it and were deemed righteous Gentiles by the old covenant Jews.sprtslvr1973 said:Hew do you answer the apparently legitimate criticism from atheists that say the God of Deuteronomy and Leviticus is a cruel sadist much like Muslim Allah?
To Alveus' point, the Greeks did a lot, and successfully, to rehabilitate the God of the Bible into their poor understanding of early Greek though,, so that people think that Jesus Loves Me is beginning and end of the whole,story nowadays.
In short, I think no one is reading the Bible very carefully, or at all if they don't have that most oft chronicled feeling towards God by those who are righteous, that of fear.
If the righteous fear God, how ought we feel?
I'm something of a neo-Marcionite. I think any honest Christian cannot read the Hebrew scriptures without concluding God is portrayed not only as cruel, but pathological, unless various parts are taken ironically, as something like, This is the kind of cruel, judgmental, homicidal, smug God you want, Israel, so that's the God I'll give you (an unlikely reading except perhaps in a few passages).
The God of the gospel narrative (as opposed to the Hebrew scriptures, the Sayings of Jesus, i.e. the Q document, or the commentary, i.e. theology) is the loving God of John 3:16. That's good enough for me. That's the story I accept. I reject the other stories.
I think I've read the gospels a lot. I suspect you're conflating the gospel narratives with (a) the epistles and theology (i.e. commentary) and (b) the sayings of Jesus (i.e. Q document) which got into the narratives later.orthonorm said:You miss my point, the God of the NT is arguably more cruel, to use the wording above. Sounds like you need to reread those gospels and explain to me how after hearing them you are aren't better off being a decent gentile while the God of the OT concerned himself with Israel.
In fact the Gospel places the Torah as being more binding than before, jot and tittle and all that.
nothing said:I suspect you're conflating the gospel narratives with ... the sayings of Jesus (i.e. Q document) which got into the narratives later.
nothing,nothing said:I don't know if they aren't reading it carefully as opposed to schizophrenically. Orthodox and the rest of doctrinal Christianity attempts to gloss the "Old Testament" in terms of the New. A profound mistake as far as I'm concerned. Nor is righteousness a important trait except in the commentary and the Sayings of Jesus, which are a different body of texts from the gospel.orthonorm said:I would challenge that Koran bests the OT in terms of Divine cruelty. I am not sure why people think the God of the OT is "crueler" than the God of the NT. If people thought through the Gospel they might wish they hadn't heard it and were deemed righteous Gentiles by the old covenant Jews.sprtslvr1973 said:Hew do you answer the apparently legitimate criticism from atheists that say the God of Deuteronomy and Leviticus is a cruel sadist much like Muslim Allah?
To Alveus' point, the Greeks did a lot, and successfully, to rehabilitate the God of the Bible into their poor understanding of early Greek though,, so that people think that Jesus Loves Me is beginning and end of the whole,story nowadays.
In short, I think no one is reading the Bible very carefully, or at all if they don't have that most oft chronicled feeling towards God by those who are righteous, that of fear.
If the righteous fear God, how ought we feel?
I'm something of a neo-Marcionite. I think any honest Christian cannot read the Hebrew scriptures without concluding God is portrayed not only as cruel, but pathological, unless various parts are taken ironically, as something like, This is the kind of cruel, judgmental, homicidal, smug God you want, Israel, so that's the God I'll give you (an unlikely reading except perhaps in a few passages).
The God of the gospel narrative (as opposed to the Hebrew scriptures, the Sayings of Jesus, i.e. the Q document, or the commentary, i.e. theology) is the loving God of John 3:16. That's good enough for me. That's the story I accept. I reject the other stories.