Dating/relationship shoulds

rebecca.ann

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JamesR said:
How do I find out if a woman wants children or not? I reeeeally don't want to have them, mostly due to bad experiences having to watch my siblings all the time, but I know that like 90% of women want children.
JamesR, I used to say the same thing when I was your age. I even looked into surgically making sure I had no kids around age 19-20. I had a less than pleasant home life and I have 4 sisters, all of whom are anywhere from 6 to 15yr younger than me. Time changes people. I now have 2 of my own. How about asking her if she would be be open to no kids versus an all across the board never for both you guys.

Quinault's answers are amazing!
 

Quinault

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orthonorm said:
katherineofdixie said:
Quinault said:
I really think that dedicated dating of one person isn't always a good idea. This idea that as soon as you start getting to know someone it should be exclusive is just unwise. Get to know people, leave the physical aspect out COMPLETELY and dating multiple people is good and healthy (as long as everyone knows that dating other people is OK). It isn't alright to be making out with Tom Tuesday, then making out with Fred Thursday. Likewise you don't want the person you are dating to be making out with Sally Wednesday and you Friday. Once dating proceeds to physical levels then it should be exclusive. But before it is physical there is no need to limit yourself to one person.
+1
Excellent advice!
People call me a monster when I suggest it.
I suspect there is some sexism involved in that. Often people assume that when a man suggests dating multiple people they mean getting really physical with multiple people. The idea that when you date you have to be mauling each other is really, really sad.

For the record; my dear husband waited a month to finally make any sort of move. And he waited quite awhile to profess love. Call me a skeptic, but if someone thinks they are in love with you after a short period of time- they aren't being all that honest. Love is far too complicated of a feeling to simply toss out on a whim. Unfortunately many people think love=sexual chemistry. And that simply isn't the case. And that sort of attitude has to have an impact in the rising divorce rate. But society and media like to paint this whole love at first sight thing. And I will admit that I was smitten with my husband the moment I saw him. But I was decidedly *not* in love with him when I first saw him. I just thought he was really, really hot.  :laugh: I fell in love when he wrote me a song  :angel:
 

yeshuaisiam

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PeterTheAleut said:
yeshuaisiam said:
Look at how he treats his mothers and sisters (if applicable).

When you decide, remember that this man will be your head, and you'll be submitting to him.   If he treats his mother well, he could very likely treat you well.   Take into consideration the headship order, and if you can trust him, you'll grow strong in a Christian relationship.
How is this advice Orthodox?
In the Eastern Orthodox faith the man is the head of his wife and the woman is supposed to submit to her husband.

The other advice isn't formulated religiously, but just practical common sense.
 

yeshuaisiam

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Hiwot said:
Quinault,Adela you women are awesome! Adela thanks for the song ;D



yeshua, the headship order and its submissive....really? lol
The Orthodox St. Tikhon wrote about a wives being submissive.  It's EO teaching 101.
 

yeshuaisiam

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orthonorm said:
I once tried to have thread about this . . .

I will remain too much of a romantic, which is to say Christian. Too many people on this website elevate cultural and tribal norms along with their wounds above the notion of a blind and seemingly pathological love, which is to say true love.

Anyone who thinks love is something pleasant knows nothing of the matter beyond whatever pop song can currently let you know.

If you buy into the whole coolodox notion that God is love and heaven or hell is how you experience it, I believe I will be in hell for forever.

Love sucks.
So basically Orthonorm, you just denied the scriptures and said "God Sucks", because God is love - as written in our scriptures.
 

Quinault

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There is submissive, then there is doormat. If a man wants to wed a doormat he is a megalomaniac. Looking for someone to submit to isn't the best route for a woman. Looking for someone you can respect means that you can trust them enough to submit to them. But really in marriage someone leads, but you often submit to each other on different matters.
 

yeshuaisiam

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Quinault said:
There is submissive, then there is doormat. If a man wants to wed a doormat he is a megalomaniac. Looking for someone to submit to isn't the best route for a woman. Looking for someone you can respect means that you can trust them enough to submit to them. But really in marriage someone leads, but you often submit to each other on different matters.
^This.  Doormat thing is out both biblically and in EO teaching.  "Husbands love your wives as yourself..." Basically the woman should be looking for a husband that she can trust enough to submit to.  This would be a husband that loves and respects her.
 

PeterTheAleut

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yeshuaisiam said:
PeterTheAleut said:
yeshuaisiam said:
Look at how he treats his mothers and sisters (if applicable).

When you decide, remember that this man will be your head, and you'll be submitting to him.   If he treats his mother well, he could very likely treat you well.   Take into consideration the headship order, and if you can trust him, you'll grow strong in a Christian relationship.
How is this advice Orthodox?
In the Eastern Orthodox faith the man is the head of his wife and the woman is supposed to submit to her husband.
You presume to speak for the Orthodox faith a lot, even though you've not been Orthodox for many years. I also have to take the meaning of your usage of "head of the wife" and "submit to her husband" within the context of what you have said previously of marriage relations. Whereas the words you use are biblical and Orthodox, the misogynist, chauvinistic spin you have often put on them is not.
 

NicholasMyra

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Not to mention jargon like "headship".

I still remember Maximum Bob, I think it was, once said, "the rubber met the road when it came to spiritual headship'. I remember that phrase distinctly because I had no frame of reference by which to comprehend the real implications, beside the obvious.
 

Salpy

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The man is the head, but the woman is the neck that turns the head:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIm1dYTv-mQ

:)
 

Mor Ephrem

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I LOL'd at one of the comments for that video:

The neck can not turn the head without the head. Where do you think the ability to turn the neck comes from? Without the head telling it to turn and allowing it, it is impossible.
Does that guy post here?  :)
 

Hiwot

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yeshuaisiam said:
Hiwot said:
Quinault,Adela you women are awesome! Adela thanks for the song ;D



yeshua, the headship order and its submissive....really? lol
The Orthodox St. Tikhon wrote about a wives being submissive.  It's EO teaching 101.
LOL . ah yeshua! lets focus on the issue at hand, although your other message is duly noted  ;)

The great apostle St. Paul  taught about the husband being the head of the wife as Christ is the Head of the Church, and for husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the Church. you see the Church submits to Christ who loves her in a supreme sacrificial love. He calls her His Body. the Wife of a man , flesh of his flesh bone of his bone will submit to the one who loves her in such Christ like love, ie, that he loves her even to give his very life for her. that is the context that the Orthodox Church teaches about when she teaches the submission of wives to their husbands.

the position of being the head of the wife in the Christian marriage is in  imitation of Christ the Head of the Church.
the position of submitting to the husband in the Christian marriage is in imitation of the Church who is the Body of Christ.

what is in common in all those positions? Love. the Husband must love her enough to die for her, those that have no clue about such kind of supreme love still covet about being the head thus the perversion of such a loving position in a marriage into a mere control and fear generating position . the wife in return will submit out of love to the one who loves her above his very life.. calling him lord is no hardship, calling him her life is no hardship, flesh of her flesh bone of her bone, she will delight in submitting to him  in this context. she does not submit out of fear or weakness, but out of her love for the one who loves her back in the fullest sense of the term. just as the Church submits to Christ.



now if you were there for the 101 class, I am sure  you know the full context of the how and the why  is stressed as the most important factor when speaking about this particular dynamics in the Christian marriage and the role of Love in it. now imitating the One crucified for his beloved on that cross is what being a head is about, you want that position? the Church says anticipate the cross.


the way you presented it.......leaves out much of the Christian position and introduces something else entirely different.
 

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First thing is remember you are never nearly as perfect as the person you are trying to find.  No one is.

Second, be ye not unequally yoked.

Third, character over "hotness".

Fourth, if you actually find a guy who will tolerate all of this ultra defensive reactionary tone to the biblical role of men and women...run.  He's been neutered.  

Fifth, even though he recognizes number four as modern drivel, he should see you and value you more than anything else in the world.  This shouldn't change until a child appears.  This doesn't mean you always get what you want.  It means he cares for you more than himself.

Sixth, life is full of adventure.  Enjoy it!  Learn what works for you and what you have that needs adjustment.  

Seventh, don't rush anything.
 

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TheTrisagion said:
Anastasia1 said:
How can I learn to distinguish shoulds in what to look for vs. optionals?
What kind of things should I look for and what is just up to me?
Mandatory:
alive
nice person
you like being around him
Takes his Christian faith seriously
humble

Optionals:
Pretty much everything else
Good post!
 

Hiwot

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yeshuaisiam said:
orthonorm said:
I once tried to have thread about this . . .

I will remain too much of a romantic, which is to say Christian. Too many people on this website elevate cultural and tribal norms along with their wounds above the notion of a blind and seemingly pathological love, which is to say true love.

Anyone who thinks love is something pleasant knows nothing of the matter beyond whatever pop song can currently let you know.

If you buy into the whole coolodox notion that God is love and heaven or hell is how you experience it, I believe I will be in hell for forever.

Love sucks.
So basically Orthonorm, you just denied the scriptures and said "God Sucks", because God is love - as written in our scriptures.

I am sure Orthonorm himself will break down what he just said for you.

In the mean time yeshua, just because I am plain irritated by how wrong you are over this I will say this: is all that you have read the part that said love sucks only? because if you have read the sentences prior to that you would have known, he is arguing in defense of the integrity of  True Love that is above and deeper than what the overly used term means to people these days. that kind of love comes with pain, suffering,death and depending on how you experience the pain of that love you are either in heaven or hell. only that kind of love can be called love the rest are poor imitations. love hands out such mortal pain to those who dare to take it on. to die to self is not a walk in the park, so the pain sucks but love knows no other way so it is not your average joy ride most of the movies make it up to be.


God is Love yes. now how did God love the world? there you see the dying to self, the sacrifice, the pain of loving those who might even hate you? no if someone expects love to be a pleasant high they will be rudely awakened by the bad trip.

so in the above I read what orthonorm saying as: do not call what is not Love by such name doing so is a travesty.
 

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I don´t there is no reason to argue about the husbands being the head of the family. I don´t think he meant submissive in the way seculars think of submissive. "Go and cook food and clear the dishes". Of course love is the first priority in the family, as always. The first woman was out of man to be a helper, not in material means, but in spiritual as well. There is a reason behind why a wife of a priest often does not work, because her career is to be a helper with love, spiritual guidance and care within the family. If yeshuaisiam meant submissive in a strict way, then of course that will have wrong implications on the orthodox teaching, but I don´t think he meant so. The way a man treats his mother is actually a good way to see how he will treat his wife.
 

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Quinault said:
orthonorm said:
katherineofdixie said:
Quinault said:
I really think that dedicated dating of one person isn't always a good idea. This idea that as soon as you start getting to know someone it should be exclusive is just unwise. Get to know people, leave the physical aspect out COMPLETELY and dating multiple people is good and healthy (as long as everyone knows that dating other people is OK). It isn't alright to be making out with Tom Tuesday, then making out with Fred Thursday. Likewise you don't want the person you are dating to be making out with Sally Wednesday and you Friday. Once dating proceeds to physical levels then it should be exclusive. But before it is physical there is no need to limit yourself to one person.
+1
Excellent advice!
People call me a monster when I suggest it.
I suspect there is some sexism involved in that. Often people assume that when a man suggests dating multiple people they mean getting really physical with multiple people. The idea that when you date you have to be mauling each other is really, really sad.

For the record; my dear husband waited a month to finally make any sort of move. And he waited quite awhile to profess love. Call me a skeptic, but if someone thinks they are in love with you after a short period of time- they aren't being all that honest. Love is far too complicated of a feeling to simply toss out on a whim. Unfortunately many people think love=sexual chemistry. And that simply isn't the case. And that sort of attitude has to have an impact in the rising divorce rate. But society and media like to paint this whole love at first sight thing. And I will admit that I was smitten with my husband the moment I saw him. But I was decidedly *not* in love with him when I first saw him. I just thought he was really, really hot.  :laugh: I fell in love when he wrote me a song  :angel:
He gave you music from his heart.........sigh......so beautiful! ;D ;D
 

PeterTheAleut

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Kerdy said:
First thing is remember you are never nearly as perfect as the person you are trying to find.  No one is.

Second, be ye not unequally yoked.

Third, character over "hotness".

Fourth, if you actually find a guy who will tolerate all of this ultra defensive reactionary tone to the biblical role of men and women...run.  He's been neutered.  

Fifth, even though he recognizes number four as modern drivel, he should see you and value you more than anything else in the world.  This shouldn't change until a child appears.  This doesn't mean you always get what you want.  It means he cares for you more than himself.

Sixth, life is full of adventure.  Enjoy it!  Learn what works for you and what you have that needs adjustment.  

Seventh, don't rush anything.
I find your terseness quite difficult to decipher. Would you mind giving a much more detailed exposition of what you're talking about? Thank you.
 

Cyrillic

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I don't get it. Why would anyone want to ask us questions about dating?
 

PeterTheAleut

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Jovan said:
I don´t there is no reason to argue about the husbands being the head of the family. I don´t think he meant submissive in the way seculars think of submissive. "Go and cook food and clear the dishes". Of course love is the first priority in the family, as always. The first woman was out of man to be a helper, not in material means, but in spiritual as well. There is a reason behind why a wife of a priest often does not work, because her career is to be a helper with love, spiritual guidance and care within the family. If yeshuaisiam meant submissive in a strict way, then of course that will have wrong implications on the orthodox teaching, but I don´t think he meant so. The way a man treats his mother is actually a good way to see how he will treat his wife.
How long have you been here at OCnet, Jovan? ;) Your defense of yeshuaisiam shows very little knowledge of his posting history on this forum.
 
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