Differences between Russian and Ukrainian Liturgical Praxis?

[LivenotoneviL]

Without sounding ignorant, nor to insinuate that these two groups of people are actually one in the same - in terms of spirituality and liturgy, how exactly are the two different from each other? In what ways are they significantly different?

I would like to know, other than ethnic affiliation, what's different and unique about both Churches. Aside from the occasional Greek-style phenolonion, I really don't know what the differences are.

 

[RaphaCam]

On a side note, I wonder if Nikonian reforms took place in the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church before post-CVII rebyzantinisation. Ukrainian Catholics had some pretty different practices from the Ukrainian Orthodox before Vatican II, which are currently kept by the Priestly Society of St. Josaphat Kuntsevych, which is aligned with the SSPX.

 

[Iconodule]

On a side note, I wonder if Nikonian reforms took place in the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church before post-CVII rebyzantinisation. Ukrainian Catholics had some pretty different practices from the Ukrainian Orthodox before Vatican II, which are currently kept by the Priestly Society of St. Josaphat Kuntsevych, which is aligned with the SSPX.

From what I have read at byzcath.org, the UGCC, Ruthenian Catholics, and ACROD liturgies are pre-Nikonian, though not the same as what became known as Old Rite in Russia. It is more or less what St Peter Mogila codified.

 

[RaphaCam]

From what I have read at byzcath.org, the UGCC, Ruthenian Catholics, and ACROD liturgies are pre-Nikonian, though not the same as what became known as Old Rite in Russia. It is more or less what St Peter Mogila codified.

I recall googling Byzantine Catholic Divine Liturgies and seeing stuff like three Hallelujahs and "mercy of peace, sacrifice of praise". Also, they seem to make the sign of the cross like we do.

 

[Iconodule]

It seems to me that a lot of the practices that the old believers denounced as innovations may have been longstanding local practices.

 

[BryanS]

Without sounding ignorant, nor to insinuate that these two groups of people are actually one in the same - in terms of spirituality and liturgy, how exactly are the two different from each other? In what ways are they significantly different?

I would like to know, other than ethnic affiliation, what's different and unique about both Churches. Aside from the occasional Greek-style phenolonion, I really don't know what the differences are.

Are you referring to practices outside Russia and Ukraine (e.g. in America) or within the two respective countries?

 

[LivenotoneviL]

Both.

 

[RaphaCam]

It seems to me that a lot of the practices that the old believers denounced as innovations may have been longstanding local practices.

Yeah, that's very probable too. After all, Patriarch Nikon and the Old Believers had the same background: the Zealots of Piety, who seeked to make a more homogeneous rite out of varied local practices. It seems that, in a sense, both of them followed their original intentions. 

 

[Dominika]

Ukrainians (or rather that time, Rusyns) had different local traditions that Old Believers (Russians). It also applies to Poland: there haven't been any problem with Nikonian reforms, as they didn't touch the local people (well, it wasn't even his jurisdiction).


Ukrainians have more paraliturgical songs, carols and not only - some of them are because of Polish influence (well, most of these people weren't that time neither Poles nor Ukrainians), it's not even about Greek Catholicism.
The way of chanting is quite different, more congregational singing, melodies seem to be simpler.

Chanting "Christ is risen" troparion instead of "let our mouths be filled" not only during Paschal Week, but until Ansecion (of course, it may not apply to every parish).

Actually, I think there are a lot of minor things. Even not to mention Lemkos, that have their own tradtions.

 

[WPM]

Sometimes you can just create a song to sing and chant

 

[Deacon Lance]

On a side note, I wonder if Nikonian reforms took place in the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church before post-CVII rebyzantinisation. Ukrainian Catholics had some pretty different practices from the Ukrainian Orthodox before Vatican II, which are currently kept by the Priestly Society of St. Josaphat Kuntsevych, which is aligned with the SSPX.

From what I have read at byzcath.org, the UGCC, Ruthenian Catholics, and ACROD liturgies are pre-Nikonian, though not the same as what became known as Old Rite in Russia. It is more or less what St Peter Mogila codified.

That is correct.  We use what has come to be called the Ruthenian Recension as opposed to the Nikonian Recension.  The unions took place before Patriarch Nikon and the areas that became Greek Catholic weren’t in territory the Czar controlled for the most part.

 

[ilyazhito]

Does the UOCUSA still preserve pre-Nikonian practice? AFAIK, the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church, whether of the 1921 variety that existed through World War II and was suppressed thereafter in Ukraine (which remains in the diaspora as the UOCUSA, UOCC, and the Ukrainian Orthodox Dioceses of Western Europe and Australia and New Zealand), or of the restored variety of 1991 appears to be similar in praxis to the Russian Orthodox Church, albeit in Ukrainian and somewhat less rigorous than ROCOR praxis. Maybe the UAOC and its derivative jurisdictions were influenced by ROC practice, if their clergy were former ROC clergy/ROC parishioners before establishing their church.

 

[BryanS]

. . . appears to be similar in praxis to the Russian Orthodox Church, albeit in Ukrainian and somewhat less rigorous than ROCOR praxis.

I don't understand most of what you're talking about, but this seems, to me, to be accurate.

 

[LizaSymonenko]

Does the UOCUSA still preserve pre-Nikonian practice?

We make the sign of the Cross using three fingers, not two.  We sing our hearts out.  We are filled with joy.  We fast, we pray.

Your questions is so wide open, that it is hard to answer.  What exactly would you like to know?

 

[Iconodule]

Does the UOCUSA still preserve pre-Nikonian practice?

No. The UAOC was itself a split from the Ukrainian church under the MP and carried over all the practices imposed by the Russian empire. It should also be noted that Ukrainian clergymen were instrumental in designing Pat. Nikon's reforms and carrying them out.