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Do Muslims worship the same God as do Jews and Trinitarian Christians?

Do Muslims worship the same God as do Jews and Trinitarian Christians?

  • No.

    Votes: 34 61.8%
  • No. Although they worship the same God as do the Jews, they are not Trinitarian.

    Votes: 5 9.1%
  • Don't know. God knows.

    Votes: 6 10.9%
  • Possibly. It is a mystery beyond my pay check.

    Votes: 3 5.5%
  • Yes, they do worship the same God. We are all God's children.

    Votes: 7 12.7%

  • Total voters
    55

jewish voice

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minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
ialmisry said:
Most Muslims do (but some worship Muhammad, Ali or a descendant of theirs), but Muslim theology does not.
thanks your right
Great!  So Islam is dogmatic in nature but Judaism is not.  In other words, a Jew can believe in pantheism for all he cares?  How does that bode well with your assertion that you worship the same God as Jews?
you missed the point Islam is not dogmatic lol why do you think there are groups in Islam fighting each other as in the news all around you. Some Muslim groups try to make it dogmatic. Lol
 

Maria

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jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
ialmisry said:
Most Muslims do (but some worship Muhammad, Ali or a descendant of theirs), but Muslim theology does not.
thanks your right
Great!  So Islam is dogmatic in nature but Judaism is not.  In other words, a Jew can believe in pantheism for all he cares?  How does that bode well with your assertion that you worship the same God as Jews?
you missed the point Islam is not dogmatic lol why do you think there are groups in Islam fighting each other as in the news all around you. Some Muslim groups try to make it dogmatic. Lol
So, what type of group are you in?
 

jewish voice

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minasoliman said:
And just to enlighten people here on Jewish understanding of the Shekinah, here's the Jewish Encyclopedia description of it:

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13537-shekinah

Dr. George Bebawi used to be a Jew.  He was an Egyptian Jew who converted into Orthodox Christianity.  He pretty much mentioned that Judaism does believe in an indwelling God.

Also check this memoir of discussion Fr. John Romanides had with world prominent Jews:

http://www.romanity.org/htm/rom.24.en.jewish_and_christian_orthodox_dialogue.htm
no not in your Christian term as Jesus living in your heart  or God becoming man. That's my point we use words but we both have different meaning behind them. 
 

minasoliman

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jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
ialmisry said:
Most Muslims do (but some worship Muhammad, Ali or a descendant of theirs), but Muslim theology does not.
thanks your right
Great!  So Islam is dogmatic in nature but Judaism is not.  In other words, a Jew can believe in pantheism for all he cares?  How does that bode well with your assertion that you worship the same God as Jews?
you missed the point Islam is not dogmatic lol why do you think there are groups in Islam fighting each other as in the news all around you. Some Muslim groups try to make it dogmatic. Lol
Dude, there are divisions in Judaism and Christianity as well.  Might as well under your definition say Christianity isn't dogmatic either.  Divisions means there are essential dogmas that cause divisions that you are unable to unite with.

In any sense, the point I'm showing is that Judaism does have a strong tradition of the indwelling God.  You may have belonged to a different Jewish sect that does not, but this doesn't disprove the fact that there are Jewish sources that clearly contradict Islamic beliefs of the divine nature.
 

jewish voice

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Maria said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
ialmisry said:
Most Muslims do (but some worship Muhammad, Ali or a descendant of theirs), but Muslim theology does not.
thanks your right
Great!  So Islam is dogmatic in nature but Judaism is not.  In other words, a Jew can believe in pantheism for all he cares?  How does that bode well with your assertion that you worship the same God as Jews?
you missed the point Islam is not dogmatic lol why do you think there are groups in Islam fighting each other as in the news all around you. Some Muslim groups try to make it dogmatic. Lol
So, what type of group are you in?
I'm just Muslim
 

Maria

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minasoliman said:
Dude, there are divisions in Judaism and Christianity as well.  Might as well under your definition say Christianity isn't dogmatic either.  Divisions means there are essential dogmas that cause divisions that you are unable to unite with.
There is only One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church = the Holy Orthodox Church.

In any sense, the point I'm showing is that Judaism does have a strong tradition of the indwelling God.  You may have belonged to a different Jewish sect that does not, but this doesn't disprove the fact that there are Jewish sources that clearly contradict Islamic beliefs of the divine nature.
True, read the Psalms of King David. How could David have written such inspiring hymns if he did not have God indwelling within him?


 

Maria

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jewish voice said:
Maria said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
ialmisry said:
Most Muslims do (but some worship Muhammad, Ali or a descendant of theirs), but Muslim theology does not.
thanks your right
Great!  So Islam is dogmatic in nature but Judaism is not.  In other words, a Jew can believe in pantheism for all he cares?  How does that bode well with your assertion that you worship the same God as Jews?
you missed the point Islam is not dogmatic lol why do you think there are groups in Islam fighting each other as in the news all around you. Some Muslim groups try to make it dogmatic. Lol
So, what type of group are you in?
I'm just Muslim
However, you mentioned that there are several Muslim groups, and that not all are dogmatic.
Are the dogmatic ones the ones that are more militant?
 

SolEX01

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jewish voice said:
Maria said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
ialmisry said:
Most Muslims do (but some worship Muhammad, Ali or a descendant of theirs), but Muslim theology does not.
thanks your right
Great!  So Islam is dogmatic in nature but Judaism is not.  In other words, a Jew can believe in pantheism for all he cares?  How does that bode well with your assertion that you worship the same God as Jews?
you missed the point Islam is not dogmatic lol why do you think there are groups in Islam fighting each other as in the news all around you. Some Muslim groups try to make it dogmatic. Lol
So, what type of group are you in?
I'm just Muslim
A secular Muslim?
 

jewish voice

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minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
ialmisry said:
Most Muslims do (but some worship Muhammad, Ali or a descendant of theirs), but Muslim theology does not.
thanks your right
Great!  So Islam is dogmatic in nature but Judaism is not.  In other words, a Jew can believe in pantheism for all he cares?  How does that bode well with your assertion that you worship the same God as Jews?
you missed the point Islam is not dogmatic lol why do you think there are groups in Islam fighting each other as in the news all around you. Some Muslim groups try to make it dogmatic. Lol
Dude, there are divisions in Judaism and Christianity as well.  Might as well under your definition say Christianity isn't dogmatic either.  Divisions means there are essential dogmas that cause divisions that you are unable to unite with.

In any sense, the point I'm showing is that Judaism does have a strong tradition of the indwelling God.  You may have belonged to a different Jewish sect that does not, but this doesn't disprove the fact that there are Jewish sources that clearly contradict Islamic beliefs of the divine nature.
the sakinah  is mentioned in the Qur'an 6 times chapters 2,9 and 48
 

minasoliman

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Yes, but in Islam, the Sakinah is a created intermediary of God in Islam.  In Judaism, it's the indwelling presence of Yahweh.

The word "Holy Spirit" is also in the Quran too.  It doesn't prove you believe in the same Holy Spirit.
 

jewish voice

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Maria said:
jewish voice said:
Maria said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
ialmisry said:
Most Muslims do (but some worship Muhammad, Ali or a descendant of theirs), but Muslim theology does not.
thanks your right
Great!  So Islam is dogmatic in nature but Judaism is not.  In other words, a Jew can believe in pantheism for all he cares?  How does that bode well with your assertion that you worship the same God as Jews?
you missed the point Islam is not dogmatic lol why do you think there are groups in Islam fighting each other as in the news all around you. Some Muslim groups try to make it dogmatic. Lol
So, what type of group are you in?
I'm just Muslim
However, you mentioned that there are several Muslim groups, and that not all are dogmatic.
Are the dogmatic ones the ones that are more militant?
yes they are that's why the rest of the Muslim s have trouble stopping it we don't have church leaders like you guys. We have imams that preach and stuff but not like Christians with bishops and so on keeping in check things
 

jewish voice

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minasoliman said:
Yes, but in Islam, the Sakinah is a created intermediary of God in Islam.  In Judaism, it's the indwelling presence of Yahweh.
no and no
 

minasoliman

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jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
Yes, but in Islam, the Sakinah is a created intermediary of God in Islam.  In Judaism, it's the indwelling presence of Yahweh.
no and no
Great comeback argument.  Really refuted it there.
 

jewish voice

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minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
Yes, but in Islam, the Sakinah is a created intermediary of God in Islam.  In Judaism, it's the indwelling presence of Yahweh.
no and no
Great comeback argument.  Really refuted it there.
I know what your tryin to say that in Islam Allah isn't a personal God but Allah is more closer to a believer than his jugular vein. Judaism don't mean indwelling as a Christian would. What more can I say on it

 

minasoliman

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jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
Yes, but in Islam, the Sakinah is a created intermediary of God in Islam.  In Judaism, it's the indwelling presence of Yahweh.
no and no
Great comeback argument.  Really refuted it there.
I know what your tryin to say that in Islam Allah isn't a personal God but Allah is more closer to a believer than his jugular vein. Judaism don't mean indwelling as a Christian would. What more can I say on it
I've provided with links that say the contrary.  It's your word vs. their's pretty much.

It's a very simple concept really.  I'm not talking about the Trinity because that's too complicated for you at the moment.  Just God with a divine nature that present in all places, but can also be present IN an assembly or IN a person.  He was present in the Temple, and He is believed to be present in an assembly of judges and those who pray together.

What Judaism defines as Shekinah and what Islam defines as Shekinah is completely different.  It's not the same God (and to be frank, in Islam, it's not even God).
 

jewish voice

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minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
Yes, but in Islam, the Sakinah is a created intermediary of God in Islam.  In Judaism, it's the indwelling presence of Yahweh.
no and no
Great comeback argument.  Really refuted it there.
I know what your tryin to say that in Islam Allah isn't a personal God but Allah is more closer to a believer than his jugular vein. Judaism don't mean indwelling as a Christian would. What more can I say on it
I've provided with links that say the contrary.  It's your word vs. their's pretty much.

It's a very simple concept really.  I'm not talking about the Trinity because that's too complicated for you at the moment.  Just God with a divine nature that present in all places, but can also be present IN an assembly or IN a person.  He was present in the Temple, and He is believed to be present in an assembly of judges and those who pray together.

What Judaism defines as Shekinah and what Islam defines as Shekinah is completely different.  It's not the same God (and to be frank, in Islam, it's not even God).
present and dwell in are two different things. Yes God is present there are examples such as the cloud and fire in exodus. Yes the Torah says God dwelled in the temple yes Jews called it shekinah but the word shekinah is not in the Torah. So I take it to mean Gods present in the temple . Still not what you want it to mean. Quran talks of God  being present as well same thing I really don't see how this matters. As to your links well clearly the group of Jews stayed Jewish so just cause words maybe the same or you try to use words in the same manner don't change the fact you believe Jesus is God. Which Jews or Muslim will not except.
 

minasoliman

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jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
Yes, but in Islam, the Sakinah is a created intermediary of God in Islam.  In Judaism, it's the indwelling presence of Yahweh.
no and no
Great comeback argument.  Really refuted it there.
I know what your tryin to say that in Islam Allah isn't a personal God but Allah is more closer to a believer than his jugular vein. Judaism don't mean indwelling as a Christian would. What more can I say on it
I've provided with links that say the contrary.  It's your word vs. their's pretty much.

It's a very simple concept really.  I'm not talking about the Trinity because that's too complicated for you at the moment.  Just God with a divine nature that present in all places, but can also be present IN an assembly or IN a person.  He was present in the Temple, and He is believed to be present in an assembly of judges and those who pray together.

What Judaism defines as Shekinah and what Islam defines as Shekinah is completely different.  It's not the same God (and to be frank, in Islam, it's not even God).
present and dwell in are two different things. Yes God is present there are examples such as the cloud and fire in exodus. Yes the Torah says God dwelled in the temple yes Jews called it shekinah but the word shekinah is not in the Torah. So I take it to mean Gods present in the temple . Still not what you want it to mean. Quran talks of God  being present as well same thing I really don't see how this matters. As to your links well clearly the group of Jews stayed Jewish so just cause words maybe the same or you try to use words in the same manner don't change the fact you believe Jesus is God. Which Jews or Muslim will not except.
Why do you always have to come back to Jesus?  I'm talking about Judaism and Islam, very strictly.  You seem to gravitate back to try to attack Christianity.  I'm only challenging your assertion that Islam and Judaism worships the same God.  You seem very desperate to make that point and then point out that Christianity worships a different God.  I'm not claiming we all worship the same God.  I'm challenging you worship the same God as Judaism.

The word "Shekinah" means dwelling.  And that word is in the Torah in its verb form.  The Shekinah is the dwelling place of the presence of God.  The Targum and the Talmud were very clear about the Shekinah, as the Jewish Encyclopedia shared.

Tell me my friend, what does it mean for God to dwell in the Temple?  What does it mean for the Shekinah to rest with ten in prayer, or 3 who judge? Or "over the head-side of a sick man?"  Does God dwell in the mosque?  Does God dwell with this who pray five times a day?  Can God dwell in anything in this world according to Islam?  Do you worship the God that dwelt in Jerusalem, in Mount Zion, in the Tabernacle?
 

Maria

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minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
Yes, but in Islam, the Sakinah is a created intermediary of God in Islam.  In Judaism, it's the indwelling presence of Yahweh.
no and no
Great comeback argument.  Really refuted it there.
I know what your tryin to say that in Islam Allah isn't a personal God but Allah is more closer to a believer than his jugular vein. Judaism don't mean indwelling as a Christian would. What more can I say on it
I've provided with links that say the contrary.  It's your word vs. their's pretty much.

It's a very simple concept really.  I'm not talking about the Trinity because that's too complicated for you at the moment.  Just God with a divine nature that present in all places, but can also be present IN an assembly or IN a person.  He was present in the Temple, and He is believed to be present in an assembly of judges and those who pray together.

What Judaism defines as Shekinah and what Islam defines as Shekinah is completely different.  It's not the same God (and to be frank, in Islam, it's not even God).
present and dwell in are two different things. Yes God is present there are examples such as the cloud and fire in exodus. Yes the Torah says God dwelled in the temple yes Jews called it shekinah but the word shekinah is not in the Torah. So I take it to mean Gods present in the temple . Still not what you want it to mean. Quran talks of God  being present as well same thing I really don't see how this matters. As to your links well clearly the group of Jews stayed Jewish so just cause words maybe the same or you try to use words in the same manner don't change the fact you believe Jesus is God. Which Jews or Muslim will not except.
Why do you always have to come back to Jesus?  I'm talking about Judaism and Islam, very strictly.  You seem to gravitate back to try to attack Christianity.  I'm only challenging your assertion that Islam and Judaism worships the same God.  You seem very desperate to make that point and then point out that Christianity worships a different God.  I'm not claiming we all worship the same God.  I'm challenging you worship the same God as Judaism.

The word "Shekinah" means dwelling.  And that word is in the Torah in its verb form.  The Shekinah is the dwelling place of the presence of God.  The Targum and the Talmud were very clear about the Shekinah, as the Jewish Encyclopedia shared.

Tell me my friend, what does it mean for God to dwell in the Temple?  What does it mean for the Shekinah to rest with ten in prayer, or 3 who judge? Or "over the head-side of a sick man?"  Does God dwell in the mosque?  Does God dwell with this who pray five times a day?  Can God dwell in anything in this world according to Islam?  Do you worship the God that dwelt in Jerusalem, in Mount Zion, in the Tabernacle?
POM -- wonderful. Thanks, Mina!
 

jewish voice

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minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
Yes, but in Islam, the Sakinah is a created intermediary of God in Islam.  In Judaism, it's the indwelling presence of Yahweh.
no and no
Great comeback argument.  Really refuted it there.
I know what your tryin to say that in Islam Allah isn't a personal God but Allah is more closer to a believer than his jugular vein. Judaism don't mean indwelling as a Christian would. What more can I say on it
I've provided with links that say the contrary.  It's your word vs. their's pretty much.

It's a very simple concept really.  I'm not talking about the Trinity because that's too complicated for you at the moment.  Just God with a divine nature that present in all places, but can also be present IN an assembly or IN a person.  He was present in the Temple, and He is believed to be present in an assembly of judges and those who pray together.

What Judaism defines as Shekinah and what Islam defines as Shekinah is completely different.  It's not the same God (and to be frank, in Islam, it's not even God).
present and dwell in are two different things. Yes God is present there are examples such as the cloud and fire in exodus. Yes the Torah says God dwelled in the temple yes Jews called it shekinah but the word shekinah is not in the Torah. So I take it to mean Gods present in the temple . Still not what you want it to mean. Quran talks of God  being present as well same thing I really don't see how this matters. As to your links well clearly the group of Jews stayed Jewish so just cause words maybe the same or you try to use words in the same manner don't change the fact you believe Jesus is God. Which Jews or Muslim will not except.
Why do you always have to come back to Jesus?  I'm talking about Judaism and Islam, very strictly.  You seem to gravitate back to try to attack Christianity.  I'm only challenging your assertion that Islam and Judaism worships the same God.  You seem very desperate to make that point and then point out that Christianity worships a different God.  I'm not claiming we all worship the same God.  I'm challenging you worship the same God as Judaism.

The word "Shekinah" means dwelling.  And that word is in the Torah in its verb form.  The Shekinah is the dwelling place of the presence of God.  The Targum and the Talmud were very clear about the Shekinah, as the Jewish Encyclopedia shared.

Tell me my friend, what does it mean for God to dwell in the Temple?  What does it mean for the Shekinah to rest with ten in prayer, or 3 who judge? Or "over the head-side of a sick man?"  Does God dwell in the mosque?  Does God dwell with this who pray five times a day?  Can God dwell in anything in this world according to Islam?  Do you worship the God that dwelt in Jerusalem, in Mount Zion, in the Tabernacle?
...
"Of course, this solution isn't perfect," the rabbi added, "but it is the best option. There is no prohibition on praying in mosques (apart for the Ran's - Rabbi Nissim ben Reuven ruling, which was not accepted)."

Rabbi Efrati noted that an example was the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron, which has a mosque.
...

fixed quote tag
-Mina


Remodified to keep in conformity with the rules on quoting articles.  Source provided in later post.
-Mina
 

ialmisry

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jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
Yes, but in Islam, the Sakinah is a created intermediary of God in Islam.  In Judaism, it's the indwelling presence of Yahweh.
no and no
Great comeback argument.  Really refuted it there.
I know what your tryin to say that in Islam Allah isn't a personal God but Allah is more closer to a believer than his jugular vein. Judaism don't mean indwelling as a Christian would. What more can I say on it
I've provided with links that say the contrary.  It's your word vs. their's pretty much.

It's a very simple concept really.  I'm not talking about the Trinity because that's too complicated for you at the moment.  Just God with a divine nature that present in all places, but can also be present IN an assembly or IN a person.  He was present in the Temple, and He is believed to be present in an assembly of judges and those who pray together.

What Judaism defines as Shekinah and what Islam defines as Shekinah is completely different.  It's not the same God (and to be frank, in Islam, it's not even God).
present and dwell in are two different things. Yes God is present there are examples such as the cloud and fire in exodus. Yes the Torah says God dwelled in the temple yes Jews called it shekinah but the word shekinah is not in the Torah. So I take it to mean Gods present in the temple . Still not what you want it to mean. Quran talks of God  being present as well same thing I really don't see how this matters. As to your links well clearly the group of Jews stayed Jewish so just cause words maybe the same or you try to use words in the same manner don't change the fact you believe Jesus is God. Which Jews or Muslim will not except.
Why do you always have to come back to Jesus?  I'm talking about Judaism and Islam, very strictly.  You seem to gravitate back to try to attack Christianity.  I'm only challenging your assertion that Islam and Judaism worships the same God.  You seem very desperate to make that point and then point out that Christianity worships a different God.  I'm not claiming we all worship the same God.  I'm challenging you worship the same God as Judaism.

The word "Shekinah" means dwelling.  And that word is in the Torah in its verb form.  The Shekinah is the dwelling place of the presence of God.  The Targum and the Talmud were very clear about the Shekinah, as the Jewish Encyclopedia shared.

Tell me my friend, what does it mean for God to dwell in the Temple?  What does it mean for the Shekinah to rest with ten in prayer, or 3 who judge? Or "over the head-side of a sick man?"  Does God dwell in the mosque?  Does God dwell with this who pray five times a day?  Can God dwell in anything in this world according to Islam?  Do you worship the God that dwelt in Jerusalem, in Mount Zion, in the Tabernacle?
...
"Of course, this solution isn't perfect," the rabbi added, "but it is the best option. There is no prohibition on praying in mosques (apart for the Ran's - Rabbi Nissim ben Reuven ruling, which was not accepted)."

Rabbi Efrati noted that an example was the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron, which has a mosque.
...

fixed quote tag
-Mina


Remodified to keep in conformity with the rules on quoting articles.  Source provided in later post.
-Mina
And?
btw, have you ever heard of sourcing a citation?
 

minasoliman

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jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
Yes, but in Islam, the Sakinah is a created intermediary of God in Islam.  In Judaism, it's the indwelling presence of Yahweh.
no and no
Great comeback argument.  Really refuted it there.
I know what your tryin to say that in Islam Allah isn't a personal God but Allah is more closer to a believer than his jugular vein. Judaism don't mean indwelling as a Christian would. What more can I say on it
I've provided with links that say the contrary.  It's your word vs. their's pretty much.

It's a very simple concept really.  I'm not talking about the Trinity because that's too complicated for you at the moment.  Just God with a divine nature that present in all places, but can also be present IN an assembly or IN a person.  He was present in the Temple, and He is believed to be present in an assembly of judges and those who pray together.

What Judaism defines as Shekinah and what Islam defines as Shekinah is completely different.  It's not the same God (and to be frank, in Islam, it's not even God).
present and dwell in are two different things. Yes God is present there are examples such as the cloud and fire in exodus. Yes the Torah says God dwelled in the temple yes Jews called it shekinah but the word shekinah is not in the Torah. So I take it to mean Gods present in the temple . Still not what you want it to mean. Quran talks of God  being present as well same thing I really don't see how this matters. As to your links well clearly the group of Jews stayed Jewish so just cause words maybe the same or you try to use words in the same manner don't change the fact you believe Jesus is God. Which Jews or Muslim will not except.
Why do you always have to come back to Jesus?  I'm talking about Judaism and Islam, very strictly.  You seem to gravitate back to try to attack Christianity.  I'm only challenging your assertion that Islam and Judaism worships the same God.  You seem very desperate to make that point and then point out that Christianity worships a different God.  I'm not claiming we all worship the same God.  I'm challenging you worship the same God as Judaism.

The word "Shekinah" means dwelling.  And that word is in the Torah in its verb form.  The Shekinah is the dwelling place of the presence of God.  The Targum and the Talmud were very clear about the Shekinah, as the Jewish Encyclopedia shared.

Tell me my friend, what does it mean for God to dwell in the Temple?  What does it mean for the Shekinah to rest with ten in prayer, or 3 who judge? Or "over the head-side of a sick man?"  Does God dwell in the mosque?  Does God dwell with this who pray five times a day?  Can God dwell in anything in this world according to Islam?  Do you worship the God that dwelt in Jerusalem, in Mount Zion, in the Tabernacle?
...
"Of course, this solution isn't perfect," the rabbi added, "but it is the best option. There is no prohibition on praying in mosques (apart for the Ran's - Rabbi Nissim ben Reuven ruling, which was not accepted)."

Rabbi Efrati noted that an example was the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron, which has a mosque.
...

fixed quote tag
-Mina


Remodified to keep in conformity with the rules on quoting articles.  Source provided in later post.
-Mina
JV,

I appreciate you continuing this discussion with me.  But don't take this the wrong way.  If this is your personal story with a Rabbi you knew and liked, then please make that clear.  But if this comes from a source, you must site it under the rules of this forum site.  I appreciate your cooperation with this ASAP.

God bless.

Mina
 

jewish voice

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http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4016144,00.html
Sorry I did forget to link
 

jewish voice

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ialmisry said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
Yes, but in Islam, the Sakinah is a created intermediary of God in Islam.  In Judaism, it's the indwelling presence of Yahweh.
no and no
Great comeback argument.  Really refuted it there.
I know what your tryin to say that in Islam Allah isn't a personal God but Allah is more closer to a believer than his jugular vein. Judaism don't mean indwelling as a Christian would. What more can I say on it
I've provided with links that say the contrary.  It's your word vs. their's pretty much.

It's a very simple concept really.  I'm not talking about the Trinity because that's too complicated for you at the moment.  Just God with a divine nature that present in all places, but can also be present IN an assembly or IN a person.  He was present in the Temple, and He is believed to be present in an assembly of judges and those who pray together.

What Judaism defines as Shekinah and what Islam defines as Shekinah is completely different.  It's not the same God (and to be frank, in Islam, it's not even God).
present and dwell in are two different things. Yes God is present there are examples such as the cloud and fire in exodus. Yes the Torah says God dwelled in the temple yes Jews called it shekinah but the word shekinah is not in the Torah. So I take it to mean Gods present in the temple . Still not what you want it to mean. Quran talks of God  being present as well same thing I really don't see how this matters. As to your links well clearly the group of Jews stayed Jewish so just cause words maybe the same or you try to use words in the same manner don't change the fact you believe Jesus is God. Which Jews or Muslim will not except.
Why do you always have to come back to Jesus?  I'm talking about Judaism and Islam, very strictly.  You seem to gravitate back to try to attack Christianity.  I'm only challenging your assertion that Islam and Judaism worships the same God.  You seem very desperate to make that point and then point out that Christianity worships a different God.  I'm not claiming we all worship the same God.  I'm challenging you worship the same God as Judaism.

The word "Shekinah" means dwelling.  And that word is in the Torah in its verb form.  The Shekinah is the dwelling place of the presence of God.  The Targum and the Talmud were very clear about the Shekinah, as the Jewish Encyclopedia shared.

Tell me my friend, what does it mean for God to dwell in the Temple?  What does it mean for the Shekinah to rest with ten in prayer, or 3 who judge? Or "over the head-side of a sick man?"  Does God dwell in the mosque?  Does God dwell with this who pray five times a day?  Can God dwell in anything in this world according to Islam?  Do you worship the God that dwelt in Jerusalem, in Mount Zion, in the Tabernacle?
...
"Of course, this solution isn't perfect," the rabbi added, "but it is the best option. There is no prohibition on praying in mosques (apart for the Ran's - Rabbi Nissim ben Reuven ruling, which was not accepted)."

Rabbi Efrati noted that an example was the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron, which has a mosque.
...

fixed quote tag
-Mina


Remodified to keep in conformity with the rules on quoting articles.  Source provided in later post.
-Mina
And?
btw, have you ever heard of sourcing a citation?
btw I just sourced it. And ?
 

minasoliman

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It is not without surprise I think that Judaism and Islam carry a lot of similarities and the permission to pray in a mosque is interesting.  However, this still does not mean there is a theological agreement on the divine nature between Judaism and Islam.  In fact, I will concede even within Judaism there is disagreement, but the main point is there is a lot of Jews who do believe in the indwelling.  For God to dwell in a particular place, like Jerusalem, Mount Sinai, the temple, the tabernacle, all have in fact been clearly stated as such in the Old Testament, in the Talmud, and in many Jewish commentators.  Some Jewish rabbis have stated that the Shekinah is the divine essence in distinct form.  The views of Egyptian Jews and the prominent Jews Fr. John Romanides had dialogues with also deserve some attention to what Jewish belief is.
 

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minasoliman said:
It is not without surprise I think that Judaism and Islam carry a lot of similarities and the permission to pray in a mosque is interesting.  However, this still does not mean there is a theological agreement on the divine nature between Judaism and Islam.  In fact, I will concede even within Judaism there is disagreement, but the main point is there is a lot of Jews who do believe in the indwelling.  For God to dwell in a particular place, like Jerusalem, Mount Sinai, the temple, the tabernacle, all have in fact been clearly stated as such in the Old Testament, in the Talmud, and in many Jewish commentators.  Some Jewish rabbis have stated that the Shekinah is the divine essence in distinct form.  The views of Egyptian Jews and the prominent Jews Fr. John Romanides had dialogues with also deserve some attention to what Jewish belief is.
my point in posting that article was to show Jews don't have a problem with the Islamic God/ Allah and can even pray where Muslims do.  Churchs are off limits for both. I feel that shows that my statement Jews and Muslims have the same God and Christians don't. Some value to the topic at hand.
As for shekinah there is different views I hold it means present not dwell in  That's my view and your welcome to hold your view.
 

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jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
It is not without surprise I think that Judaism and Islam carry a lot of similarities and the permission to pray in a mosque is interesting.  However, this still does not mean there is a theological agreement on the divine nature between Judaism and Islam.  In fact, I will concede even within Judaism there is disagreement, but the main point is there is a lot of Jews who do believe in the indwelling.  For God to dwell in a particular place, like Jerusalem, Mount Sinai, the temple, the tabernacle, all have in fact been clearly stated as such in the Old Testament, in the Talmud, and in many Jewish commentators.  Some Jewish rabbis have stated that the Shekinah is the divine essence in distinct form.  The views of Egyptian Jews and the prominent Jews Fr. John Romanides had dialogues with also deserve some attention to what Jewish belief is.
my point in posting that article was to show Jews don't have a problem with the Islamic God/ Allah and can even pray where Muslims do.  Churchs are off limits for both. I feel that shows that my statement Jews and Muslims have the same God and Christians don't. Some value to the topic at hand.
As for shekinah there is different views I hold it means present not dwell in  That's my view and your welcome to hold your view.
You make an interesting point.  I can't deny that.  It seems however, Judaism allows for both an indwelling God and a non-indwelling God at the same time.  Judaism today sounds like a living contradiction of itself, as you pointed out earlier.  Perhaps Jews have no problems in praying in a mosque, but Islam is not as flexible in this regard as Jews are.
 

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minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
It is not without surprise I think that Judaism and Islam carry a lot of similarities and the permission to pray in a mosque is interesting.  However, this still does not mean there is a theological agreement on the divine nature between Judaism and Islam.  In fact, I will concede even within Judaism there is disagreement, but the main point is there is a lot of Jews who do believe in the indwelling.  For God to dwell in a particular place, like Jerusalem, Mount Sinai, the temple, the tabernacle, all have in fact been clearly stated as such in the Old Testament, in the Talmud, and in many Jewish commentators.  Some Jewish rabbis have stated that the Shekinah is the divine essence in distinct form.  The views of Egyptian Jews and the prominent Jews Fr. John Romanides had dialogues with also deserve some attention to what Jewish belief is.
my point in posting that article was to show Jews don't have a problem with the Islamic God/ Allah and can even pray where Muslims do.  Churchs are off limits for both. I feel that shows that my statement Jews and Muslims have the same God and Christians don't. Some value to the topic at hand.
As for shekinah there is different views I hold it means present not dwell in  That's my view and your welcome to hold your view.
You make an interesting point.  I can't deny that.  It seems however, Judaism allows for both an indwelling God and a non-indwelling God at the same time.  Judaism today sounds like a living contradiction of itself, as you pointed out earlier.  Perhaps Jews have no problems in praying in a mosque, but Islam is not as flexible in this regard as Jews are.
actually more flexible. I just looked it up and I was wrong oh no did I just say that :laugh:
It is permissible to pray in any place, as long the place is clean (tahir). However, praying in a church, temple or any other religious place without any necessity is makrooh.

It is possible that some people of those religions may not like to see us praying in their places of worship and we should not hurt other people’s feelings. If we have to pray in those places then we should take proper permission from the authorities that govern those sanctuaries.
http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-the-scholar/acts-of-worship/prayer/places-of-prayer-mosques/175423.html
 

minasoliman

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jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
jewish voice said:
minasoliman said:
It is not without surprise I think that Judaism and Islam carry a lot of similarities and the permission to pray in a mosque is interesting.  However, this still does not mean there is a theological agreement on the divine nature between Judaism and Islam.  In fact, I will concede even within Judaism there is disagreement, but the main point is there is a lot of Jews who do believe in the indwelling.  For God to dwell in a particular place, like Jerusalem, Mount Sinai, the temple, the tabernacle, all have in fact been clearly stated as such in the Old Testament, in the Talmud, and in many Jewish commentators.  Some Jewish rabbis have stated that the Shekinah is the divine essence in distinct form.  The views of Egyptian Jews and the prominent Jews Fr. John Romanides had dialogues with also deserve some attention to what Jewish belief is.
my point in posting that article was to show Jews don't have a problem with the Islamic God/ Allah and can even pray where Muslims do.  Churchs are off limits for both. I feel that shows that my statement Jews and Muslims have the same God and Christians don't. Some value to the topic at hand.
As for shekinah there is different views I hold it means present not dwell in  That's my view and your welcome to hold your view.
You make an interesting point.  I can't deny that.  It seems however, Judaism allows for both an indwelling God and a non-indwelling God at the same time.  Judaism today sounds like a living contradiction of itself, as you pointed out earlier.  Perhaps Jews have no problems in praying in a mosque, but Islam is not as flexible in this regard as Jews are.
actually more flexible. I just looked it up and I was wrong oh no did I just say that :laugh:
It is permissible to pray in any place, as long the place is clean (tahir). However, praying in a church, temple or any other religious place without any necessity is makrooh.

It is possible that some people of those religions may not like to see us praying in their places of worship and we should not hurt other people’s feelings. If we have to pray in those places then we should take proper permission from the authorities that govern those sanctuaries.
http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-the-scholar/acts-of-worship/prayer/places-of-prayer-mosques/175423.html
Interesting...thank you for that.

I don't remember you saying that.  But I do remember you mentioning Judaism has flexibility in belief of God, whereas Islam does not.  I extended this same logic to places of worship, although as you showed, that's not necessarily the case.
 
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