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Does anybody know these words?

Myrrh23

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Does anyone know the Enlgish translation of this song, Defte Lai:

"Defte Lai, apandes simfonos. Hriston animnisomem, ton en tovaptiz mati. (x2) Pandas imas, ekatha randa"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcpUnZ_ghdA&feature=related
 

ytterbiumanalyst

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It strikes me as Greek, so I asked my wife, who took Greek in college. She says that "ekatha" is related to the word "katharizo", meaning "to cleanse." Beyond that, she's not sure. It may not be Greek but rather a language with many Greek roots. She doesn't recognize anything else.
 

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I googled the singer, Divna Ljubojevic.  It looks like she's Serbian.  Here's some Serbian Orthodox music with her as one of the performers: http://www.sv-luka.org/chants/index.html
 

SolEX01

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The first two words are translated as "Come ye people."

I think the hymn is from Holy Week based on what I saw at the YouTube site.  I thumbed through my Holy Week book and the hymn doesn't appear in it.
 

Heorhij

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"Simphonos" apparently means "in one voice," or "making a sound all together."

"Animnisomem" ("-men?") souds like a derivative from "anamnesis" ("recollection" or "rememberance") (see, my medical background shows!)

"Tovaptiz" may be a derivative of "baptismo" (Baptism; Greeks can pronounce their "betas" as "v," like in "presviteros," "vasileos").

So, it's something like, "come people, let's all sing in one voice, remembering Christ, as we all have been baptized; all of us, who have been cleansed."
 

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In the comments there someone said it's Coine Greek / Ancient Greek.

It's not Serbian.
 

orthodoxlurker

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Heorhij said:
Certainly. I don't know Serbian, but as a Slav, I can tell right away that the language is not Slavic.

Divna often sings in Greek.
Definitely not Slavic.

Sounds like some kind of Greek.
 

Heorhij

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orthodoxlurker said:
Definitely not Slavic.

Sounds like some kind of Greek.
I was 100% sure it was Greek the moment I saw "simfonos" (symphonos), "Animnisomem," "lai," "ton," "panda" (panta?), etc.

It's weird to me that those who went to schools in the USA (even to colleges...?) are not able to recognize these most definite Greek traits.. 

Anyway, let's wait for Ozgeorge, Pentaseomnia, and others whose native tongue is Greek.
 

ozgeorge

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Heorhij said:
So, George, was I any close? "Come people, let's all sing in one voice, remembering Christ, as we all have been baptized; all of us, who have been cleansed." -?
I think you are close. I don't recognize the hymn, perhaps pensatomnia can, but to me it sounds like:

"defte lai" (come people)
"apantes symphonos" (together with one voice)
"Hriston an ymnisomen" (let us hymn Christ)
"ton en to batismati" (Who in baptism)
"pantas emas ekatharanta" (cleansed all of us)
 

Myrrh23

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Didn't know your native tongue was Greek, OzGeorge! KEWL! ;D

I've been trying to learn Greek on my own. Right now, I'm working on my numbers and letters, though I keep forgetting the number 10 (theka, with th as in then). Later, I'll do diphthongs and consonants, using websites and good 'ol YouTube! :)

I know this may be silly, but those translations don't agree with this online translator I found <English to Greek>, Oz. Why not? :(

http://www.systran.jp/english-greek-translation/greek-translator-online.htm
 

SolEX01

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Myrrh23 said:
I've been trying to learn Greek on my own. Right now, I'm working on my numbers and letters, though I keep forgetting the number 10 (theka, with th as in then). Later, I'll do diphthongs and consonants, using websites and good 'ol YouTube! :)
The number 10 is deca (pronounced deka).  A decameter is 10 meters.  A decaliter is 10 liters.  The Greek word for decade is δεκαετια which literally translates as 10 (deka) years (etia - plural of etos).

Myrrh23 said:
I know this may be silly, but those translations don't agree with this online translator I found <English to Greek>, Oz. Why not? :(
The ones from babelfish tend to be a little better except that a translator will translate word for word and not take into account proper grammar, slang, etc.
 

Myrrh23

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SolEX01 said:
The number 10 is deca (pronounced deka).  A decameter is 10 meters.  A decaliter is 10 liters.  The Greek word for decade is δεκαετια which literally translates as 10 (deka) years (etia - plural of etos).
Then why are these sources pronouncing it as a th? Jeez. This is frustrating.... :( So delta is suppose to be spoken as a 'D'?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc60SDsTcmk

http://www.explorecrete.com/various/greek-language.htm
 

Aristocles

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Myrrh23 said:
Then why are these sources pronouncing it as a th? Jeez. This is frustrating.... :( So delta is suppose to be spoken as a 'D'?
Not in modern Greek. SolEX01 must have slipped up in his post - "Th" is correct.
 

Heorhij

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Myrrh23 said:
I'm working on my numbers and letters, though I keep forgetting the number 10 (theka, with th as in then).
This is something I always tell my students. Most of them graduated from the US schools and have almost no concept of the metric system, and it bothers me, because in science everything is always measured in units based on the metric system. So, I (even though I do not know the Greek language), always try to teach my students that "deca" (or theca) means ten, "santi" - hundred; "mili" (Latin origin) - thousand, or one thousandth part; "micro" indicates a one millionth part, "nano" - one billionth, "pico" - one trillionth, "femto" - one quadrillionth (10E-15).
 

ozgeorge

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Myrrh23 said:
I know this may be silly, but those translations don't agree with this online translator I found <English to Greek>, Oz. Why not? :(
The translator attempts to translate into modern Greek (demotiki). Church uses "Koine" (prnounced "Ki-ni"), which is a much older form of Greek.
When studying their language, Greek students actually have to learn three different (but related) forms of Greek:
Koine:- The ancient form used in the New Testament and the Church.
Katharevousa:- A form of Greek midway between ancient and modern Greek invented in the 19th century and still used for official documents.
Demotiki- The Greek spoken and written in modern everyday use.
 

ytterbiumanalyst

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SolEX01 said:
The ones from babelfish tend to be a little better except that a translator will translate word for word and not take into account proper grammar, slang, etc.
If my students insist on using an online translator, I usually direct them to Babelfish, as it is one of the better ones--but you are correct in that idioms and slang often translate poorly, and you get the equivalent of Engrish. Babelfish might, say, tell you that "to punch the streets" is the same as "to hit the road."

For all its many uses, the Internet still can't compare to a lexicon for translation purposes.
 

Heorhij

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ozgeorge said:
I think you are close. I don't recognize the hymn, perhaps pensatomnia can, but to me it sounds like:

"defte lai" (come people)
"apantes symphonos" (together with one voice)
"Hriston an ymnisomen" (let us hymn Christ)
"ton en to batismati" (Who in baptism)
"pantas emas ekatharanta" (cleansed all of us)
Thank you!
 

SolEX01

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Αριστοκλής said:
Not in modern Greek. SolEX01 must have slipped up in his post - "Th" is correct.
Not according to Divry's New English-Greek and Greek-English dictionary, which uses "D" rather than "Th" for deka.  AFAIK, we're talking about modern Greek and not ancient versions of Greek. 
 

SolEX01

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Myrrh23 said:
Then why are these sources pronouncing it as a th? Jeez. This is frustrating.... :( So delta is suppose to be spoken as a 'D'?
You are correct, delta is today's letter D and pronounced as a D.

My guess is that the sources are trying oversimplify things for non-English speakers.

Put it another way, the Greek word for decade is NOT Θεκαετια.  The Greek letter, theta (underlined letter), has the pronounciation of "Th" not "D."
 

Myrrh23

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Θ is spoken also with a th, but as in the word thin. Delta, in the modern language, is with a th as in then, right? :-\
 

SolEX01

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Myrrh23 said:
Θ is spoken also with a th, but as in the word thin. Delta, in the modern language, is with a th as in then, right? :-\
First half is correct.  For second half, delta is today's letter D pronounced like dog, duck, dig, etc.
 

chris

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SolEX01 said:
Myrrh23 said:
Θ is spoken also with a th, but as in the word thin. Delta, in the modern language, is with a th as in then, right? :-\
First half is correct.  For second half, delta is today's letter D pronounced like dog, duck, dig, etc.
Hmm...that's not how I pronounce 'delta' in liturgical or modern Greek. Source

   
Delta  d  th as in then (but not thin); contrast theta below
 

Now, classical Greek may use delta as a 'd', but not so in Liturgical or Modern.

 

SolEX01

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^Well, my modern Greek dictionary pretty much backs up Father Chris and others in that the modern delta is pronounced with a hard "th" sound.  Thanks Father Chris and my sincere apologies to everyone.   :-[ 
 

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Myrrh23 said:
Does anyone know the Enlgish translation of this song, Defte Lai:

"Defte Lai, apandes simfonos. Hriston animnisomem, ton en tovaptiz mati. (x2) Pandas imas, ekatha randa"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcpUnZ_ghdA&feature=related
"Δεῦτε λαοί, ἅπαντες συμφώνως, Χριστόν ἀνυμνήσωμεν, Τόν ἐν τῷ βαπτίσματι, πάντας ἡμᾶς ἐκαθάραντα"

[quote author=Heorhij]"Simphonos" apparently means "in one voice," or "making a sound all together."

"Animnisomem" ("-men?") souds like a derivative from "anamnesis" ("recollection" or "rememberance") (see, my medical background shows!)

"Tovaptiz" may be a derivative of "baptismo" (Baptism; Greeks can pronounce their "betas" as "v," like in "presviteros," "vasileos").

So, it's something like, [size=10pt]"come people, let's all sing in one voice, remembering Christ, as we all have been baptized; all of us, who have been cleansed."[/size][/quote]
...you sure you can't speak Greek?


It's a bit different though:
"come people, let us all sing/hymn=animnisomen (it's from the verb ἀνυμνῶ, to extoll in hymn/hymns. The "other" animnisomen you imply Heorhij that has something to do with anamnesis-rememberance should have been ἀναμιμνήσκομεν-anamimniskomen) Christ, who through His baptism, has cleansed us".
 

Heorhij

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^Thank you, Apostolos.

No, I really don't speak Greek. I just went to good schools and learned a lot of Greek words, like "symphony," "anamnesis," "katharsis," and what not.

Plus, my granny was half-Greek! She did not know Greek, but maybe it's in my DNA! :)
 

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Bringing back this thread - funny I heard this video the other day for the first time, and was looking for the text's origin - leading me to OC.net.

The text sounded liturgical but I couldn't find by googling through the Greek service books (glt.goarch.org).

The closest I could find is the quote below, but my Greek is nowhere good enough to understand what it means.

I think it says something to the effect that: this text that she's singing "Δεῦτε λαοί, ἅπαντες συμφώνως" can be sung to the same melody as the second Praise verses from Theophany Orthros? (and possibly that the first and second verses of Theophany Orthros Praises "Φῶς ἐκ φωτός”, “Πῶς σε Χριστέ” can be sung to the same melody?*). (note this is neither in the Theophany texts at HTM English menaion nor the Greek posted on glt.goarch.org; if I am right this would seem to be an optional rubric)​

@Apostolos or @Cavaradossi ?


Τὰ στιχηρὰ “Φῶς ἐκ φωτός”, “Πῶς σε Χριστέ”, “Δεῦτε λαοί”* (προσόμοια μεταξύ τους),
“Σὺ ἐν Ἰορδάνῃ” ἄνευ μέλους. Τὸ σήμερον ψαλλόμενο “Σήμερον ὁ Χριστὸς ἐν Ἰορδάνῃ ἦλθε βαπτισθῆναι”, μὲ τὴν φράση ὅμως “Δόξα ἐν ὑψίστοις Θεῷ... εὐδοκία”, μελισμένο.

*Δεῦτε λαοί, ἅπαντες συμφώνως Χριστὸν ἀνυμνήσωμεν, τὸν ἐν τῷ βαπτίσματι πάντας ἡμᾶς καθαρίσαντα. Εἶναι “ἀπόκρυφο” [ἔχει ὅμως δημοσιευτεῖ ἠχογράφησή του, μὲ ἐλαφρῶς διαφορετικὸ μέλος ἀπὸ τὸ Α 139, ἀπὸ τὴν Divna Ljubojevic, ἄρα σὲ κάποιο ΜΒ χφ θὰ ὑπάρχει]
https://digitalcollections.nlg.gr/nlg-repo/dl/file/lib/default/data/2104396/pdfFile
 

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Bringing back this thread - funny I heard this video the other day for the first time, and was looking for the text's origin - leading me to OC.net.

The text sounded liturgical but I couldn't find by googling through the Greek service books (glt.goarch.org).

The closest I could find is the quote below, but my Greek is nowhere good enough to understand what it means.

I think it says something to the effect that: this text that she's singing "Δεῦτε λαοί, ἅπαντες συμφώνως" can be sung to the same melody as the second Praise verses from Theophany Orthros? (and possibly that the first and second verses of Theophany Orthros Praises "Φῶς ἐκ φωτός”, “Πῶς σε Χριστέ” can be sung to the same melody?*). (note this is neither in the Theophany texts at HTM English menaion nor the Greek posted on glt.goarch.org; if I am right this would seem to be an optional rubric)​

@Apostolos or @Cavaradossi ?




https://digitalcollections.nlg.gr/nlg-repo/dl/file/lib/default/data/2104396/pdfFile
This is a description of a manuscript menaion held in the National Library of Greece (ΕΒΕ 840). The portion you found describes the contents of page 198 recto. Roughly, "The stichera 'Φῶς ἐκ φωτός', 'Πῶς σε Χριστέ', 'Δεῦτε λαοί'* (prosomoia of each other) 'Σὺ ἐν Ἰορδάνῃ' without melos [that is, I assume, no musical notation]. [The hymn] 'Σήμερον ὁ Χριστὸς ἐν Ἰορδάνῃ ἦλθε βαπτισθῆναι', which is sung today, but with the phrase 'Glory in the highest to God [and on earth, peace]... good will [among men]' [presumably instead of the usual phrase, 'Glory to God who has been revealed, who has been seen upon earth, and who has enlightened the world'] with melody. *[the hymn] Δεῦτε λαοί, ἅπαντες συμφώνως Χριστὸν ἀνυμνήσωμεν, τὸν ἐν τῷ βαπτίσματι πάντας ἡμᾶς καθαρίσαντα is 'apocryphal' [maybe in the sense that it is non-standard or misattributed to Germanus the Patriarch who composed the other stichera]."

It ends with a remark in brackets that "a recording of it [Δεῦτε λαοί], however, has been published, with a slightly different melody from A 139 by Divna Ljubojevic, so it will exist in some Middle-Byzantine manuscript."
 
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MarkosC

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Thanks! So my Greek gets a big fat "F"........ not surprised though. :D

So then, it seems that her performance is of a variant of something that otherwise exists in manuscripts, and is not commonly performed anymore? Either way, it's very nice.

Finally, hotlinking the subject video on what appears to be her official youtube channel:
 

Dominika

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I have moved the topic to the Liturgy section.
Dominika, GM
 

Dominika

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I've been wondering at least a few years, from which service and/or feast is this hymn. And it's chanted only by Serbs, only in Greek, as far I see - here you can listen to this hymn also chanted by Serbs from the album "Sacred music by the contemporary Serbian composers", so maybe that's a hint.

 
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