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Eastern Orthodox joining Syrian Orthodox

Mor Ephrem

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I'm not a member of that jurisdiction, but I suspect our practice is identical.  They are received by communion, perhaps preceded by confession (of sins). 
 

TheTrisagion

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Interesting, why not? I've actually never heard of anyone converting in between OO and EO although I'm sure it happens, but I would imagine that an OO who converts to EO would have to accept Chalcedon.
 

kelly

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TheTrisagion said:
Interesting, why not? I've actually never heard of anyone converting in between OO and EO although I'm sure it happens, but I would imagine that an OO who converts to EO would have to accept Chalcedon.
I don't think OO's joining Antioch have to renounce anything.
 

Cyrillic

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kelly said:
TheTrisagion said:
Interesting, why not? I've actually never heard of anyone converting in between OO and EO although I'm sure it happens, but I would imagine that an OO who converts to EO would have to accept Chalcedon.
I don't think OO's joining Antioch have to renounce anything.
Even in the diaspora?
 

TheTrisagion

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kelly said:
TheTrisagion said:
Interesting, why not? I've actually never heard of anyone converting in between OO and EO although I'm sure it happens, but I would imagine that an OO who converts to EO would have to accept Chalcedon.
I don't think OO's joining Antioch have to renounce anything.
I'm not even sure they permit an OO to join Antioch. I think when they began intercommuning laity, it was agreed that they would not "poach" parishioners.
 

Mor Ephrem

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TheTrisagion said:
Interesting, why not? I've actually never heard of anyone converting in between OO and EO although I'm sure it happens, but I would imagine that an OO who converts to EO would have to accept Chalcedon.
It's not as if accepting/rejecting Chalcedon is considered optional by the respective Churches, the question is how does one manifest that.  If an EO decides to convert to OO, the very act of presenting oneself to the Church as one who wishes to join her, believe what she believes, and reject what she rejects is an implicit "rejection" of the ecumenical status of councils after Ephesus I.  Do you need to do more than that?  Ultimately, no.  For instance, no EO (and as far as I know, no OO) subscribes to "seven/three ecumenical councils" as part of the baptismal rite; one is simply baptised, and joining oneself to the Church implies the rest.  It may be advisable in certain situations for certain converts to make a public statement concerning these matters, but in general it is probably not necessary. 
 

Cyrillic

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Mor Ephrem said:
It may be advisable in certain situations for certain converts to make a public statement concerning these matters
What do you mean with 'certain converts'? Who are they?
 

Mor Ephrem

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TheTrisagion said:
kelly said:
TheTrisagion said:
Interesting, why not? I've actually never heard of anyone converting in between OO and EO although I'm sure it happens, but I would imagine that an OO who converts to EO would have to accept Chalcedon.
I don't think OO's joining Antioch have to renounce anything.
I'm not even sure they permit an OO to join Antioch. I think when they began intercommuning laity, it was agreed that they would not "poach" parishioners.
My understanding is that, for example, I could join an Antiochian parish, but all I'd have to do is what any other EO would have to do to join the parish.  If I didn't want to switch my affiliation, I could just keep showing up every Sunday the way some of the "Greeks in exile" around here do. 

To Cyrillic's question, I'm not sure if it is different in the diaspora.  My sense, when it comes to America, is that it depends on the priest/community.  "Arab Antiochians" in America treat me as one of their own.  "American Antiochians" vary: some are like TheTrisagion and others are more Orthodox than orthodoxinfo.com. 
 

Mor Ephrem

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Cyrillic said:
Mor Ephrem said:
It may be advisable in certain situations for certain converts to make a public statement concerning these matters
What do you mean with 'certain converts'? Who are they?
I don't know for sure.  What I had in mind was the kind of situation in which, for example, TheTrisagion was central Pennsylvania's leading anti-OO activist, publishing polemical materials, protesting outside local OO churches with his children holding signs reading "I ♥ Pope Leo" and "God Hates Copts", etc.  If one day he had a change of heart and wished to join the local Syriac parish, I suppose making some sort of public confession of faith might be in order.       
 

Cyrillic

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Mor Ephrem said:
Cyrillic said:
Mor Ephrem said:
It may be advisable in certain situations for certain converts to make a public statement concerning these matters
What do you mean with 'certain converts'? Who are they?
I don't know for sure.  What I had in mind was the kind of situation in which, for example, TheTrisagion was central Pennsylvania's leading anti-OO activist, publishing polemical materials, protesting outside local OO churches with his children holding signs reading "I ♥ Pope Leo" and "God Hates Copts", etc.  If one day he had a change of heart and wished to join the local Syriac parish, I suppose making some sort of public confession of faith might be in order.     
LOL.
 

lovesupreme

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Mor Ephrem said:
I don't know for sure.  What I had in mind was the kind of situation in which, for example, TheTrisagion was central Pennsylvania's leading anti-OO activist, publishing polemical materials, protesting outside local OO churches with his children holding signs reading "I ♥ Pope Leo" and "God Hates Copts", etc.  If one day he had a change of heart and wished to join the local Syriac parish, I suppose making some sort of public confession of faith might be in order.
I would hope that given such actions, TheTrisagion's public confession and apology and were mandated by his own EO episcopate long before he decided to join the Syriacs...
 

Asteriktos

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TheTrisagion said:
kelly said:
TheTrisagion said:
Interesting, why not? I've actually never heard of anyone converting in between OO and EO although I'm sure it happens, but I would imagine that an OO who converts to EO would have to accept Chalcedon.
I don't think OO's joining Antioch have to renounce anything.
I'm not even sure they permit an OO to join Antioch. I think when they began intercommuning laity, it was agreed that they would not "poach" parishioners.
If I understand correctly the explanation I received from a priest who has dealt with this in a parish, an Oriental Orthodox who wishes to participate in an Antiochian Orthodox community first talks to the priest. The priest probably has to consult with the bishop (I forget about this part), and then if there aren't any issues to work out (like you'd have with all that protesting you do) then the person goes to a standard confession, communes, and after that the parishioner can go about their business like any other person in the parish. I don't think this is considered poaching in the cases this deals with though, but rather is meant to provide support for people who are not close enough to an OO parish to attend, and would otherwise be without a parish, or have some other significant situation that requires this kind of solution. I suppose you could argue whether they are really converting; "if an OO Church opens up a year later and they leave to attend that new parish, did they ever really convert?"  But I think that's mostly just semantics, and the term loses its usefulness in such situations.
 

TheTrisagion

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Mor Ephrem said:
Cyrillic said:
Mor Ephrem said:
It may be advisable in certain situations for certain converts to make a public statement concerning these matters
What do you mean with 'certain converts'? Who are they?
I don't know for sure.  What I had in mind was the kind of situation in which, for example, TheTrisagion was central Pennsylvania's leading anti-OO activist, publishing polemical materials, protesting outside local OO churches with his children holding signs reading "I ♥ Pope Leo" and "God Hates Copts", etc.  If one day he had a change of heart and wished to join the local Syriac parish, I suppose making some sort of public confession of faith might be in order.     
Errr, well... I suppose I should start putting away my signs then. Just in case I decide in the future to hedge my bets.  ;)
 

minasoliman

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Justin Kissel said:
TheTrisagion said:
kelly said:
TheTrisagion said:
Interesting, why not? I've actually never heard of anyone converting in between OO and EO although I'm sure it happens, but I would imagine that an OO who converts to EO would have to accept Chalcedon.
I don't think OO's joining Antioch have to renounce anything.
I'm not even sure they permit an OO to join Antioch. I think when they began intercommuning laity, it was agreed that they would not "poach" parishioners.
If I understand correctly the explanation I received from a priest who has dealt with this in a parish, an Oriental Orthodox who wishes to participate in an Antiochian Orthodox community first talks to the priest. The priest probably has to consult with the bishop (I forget about this part), and then if there aren't any issues to work out (like you'd have with all that protesting you do) then the person goes to a standard confession, communes, and after that the parishioner can go about their business like any other person in the parish. I don't think this is considered poaching in the cases this deals with though, but rather is meant to provide support for people who are not close enough to an OO parish to attend, and would otherwise be without a parish, or have some other significant situation that requires this kind of solution. I suppose you could argue whether they are really converting; "if an OO Church opens up a year later and they leave to attend that new parish, did they ever really convert?"  But I think that's mostly just semantics, and the term loses its usefulness in such situations.
I used to be 40 miles away from an Antiochian Orthodox parish that prays every Sunday, and 90 miles away from a Coptic parish that meets on a Saturday twice a month.  The priest after consulting with his bishop pretty much told me that he is more than willing to give me communion since he does not consider me any less Orthodox as his own, but my issue might be my own bishop.  I consulted with my [general] bishop at the time, and he told me to suck it up and drive the 90 miles.  :p
 

minasoliman

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Salpy

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Just for reference, the requirements for Oriental Orthodox converting to the EO Church were discussed a while back here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,6627.0.html
 

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TheTrisagion said:
kelly said:
TheTrisagion said:
Interesting, why not? I've actually never heard of anyone converting in between OO and EO although I'm sure it happens, but I would imagine that an OO who converts to EO would have to accept Chalcedon.
I don't think OO's joining Antioch have to renounce anything.
I'm not even sure they permit an OO to join Antioch. I think when they began intercommuning laity, it was agreed that they would not "poach" parishioners.
Any proof intercommunion is really going on besides the internet chatter??????
 

Alpo

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Orest said:
TheTrisagion said:
kelly said:
TheTrisagion said:
Interesting, why not? I've actually never heard of anyone converting in between OO and EO although I'm sure it happens, but I would imagine that an OO who converts to EO would have to accept Chalcedon.
I don't think OO's joining Antioch have to renounce anything.
I'm not even sure they permit an OO to join Antioch. I think when they began intercommuning laity, it was agreed that they would not "poach" parishioners.
Any proof intercommunion is really going on besides the internet chatter??????
See any parish with Middle Eastern parishioners for reference.
 

Mor Ephrem

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Alpo said:
Orest said:
TheTrisagion said:
kelly said:
TheTrisagion said:
Interesting, why not? I've actually never heard of anyone converting in between OO and EO although I'm sure it happens, but I would imagine that an OO who converts to EO would have to accept Chalcedon.
I don't think OO's joining Antioch have to renounce anything.
I'm not even sure they permit an OO to join Antioch. I think when they began intercommuning laity, it was agreed that they would not "poach" parishioners.
Any proof intercommunion is really going on besides the internet chatter??????
See any parish with Middle Eastern parishioners for reference.
Shhhhh!!  We need to protect the reputation of Great and Holy Orthodoxy.
 

TheTrisagion

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Orest said:
TheTrisagion said:
kelly said:
TheTrisagion said:
Interesting, why not? I've actually never heard of anyone converting in between OO and EO although I'm sure it happens, but I would imagine that an OO who converts to EO would have to accept Chalcedon.
I don't think OO's joining Antioch have to renounce anything.
I'm not even sure they permit an OO to join Antioch. I think when they began intercommuning laity, it was agreed that they would not "poach" parishioners.
Any proof intercommunion is really going on besides the internet chatter??????
It happens every sunday at my parish in accordance with the approval of our bishop who received the approval from Met Philip. Met Joseph has not revoked it, so it continues. I never realized it was controversial until I became a regular here at oc.net.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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Mor Ephrem said:
My sense, when it comes to America, is that it depends on the priest/community.  "Arab Antiochians" in America treat me as one of their own.  "American Antiochians" vary: some are like TheTrisagion and others are more Orthodox than orthodoxinfo.com.
This is my sense of things in the States too.  (Not of Tris personally.  I have no clue where he stands on this stuff.)  I've been invited to commune and even to serve as a reader in predominantly Middle Eastern Antiochian parishes more than once, and I've had relatively recent converts with hilarious regional accents admit that they think the Protestant groups they so recently abandoned are closer to Orthodoxy than the dreaded and strangely pronounced Monofff-Iz-Ites.  Their naivety would be charming if it weren't advanced in such a condescending, cocksure fashion.  There's nothing so surreal, heart warming and farcical as seeing some guy who looks like John Denver with the chrism still wet on his forehead telling the cradle Coptic friend you've brought with you that he (the Denver clone) is Orthodox - and maybe his Bapticostal Granny is too, because, you know, we know where the Church is but not where she is not - but the Copt is definitely a Monophysite heretic and needs to accept Orthodoxy before it's too late.  Almost heaven, West Virginia...;D
 

Mor Ephrem

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Antonious Nikolas said:
...I've had relatively recent converts with hilarious regional accents admit that they think the Protestant groups they so recently abandoned are closer to Orthodoxy than the dreaded and strangely pronounced Monofff-Iz-Ites
We know the same people.  Or they have been fruitful and multiplied.
 

TheTrisagion

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When I met Mor IRL, I doused him with good Eastern Orthodox holy water. He didn't dissolve, so I felt that it was probably safe to talk with him. That is my SOP when dealing with the heretical Monofff-Iz-Ites. I learned this practice from pasadi97. Holy water is the great illuminer of the soul.
 

Mor Ephrem

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TheTrisagion said:
When I met Mor IRL, I doused him with good Eastern Orthodox holy water. He didn't dissolve, so I felt that it was probably safe to talk with him. That is my SOP when dealing with the heretical Monofff-Iz-Ites. I learned this practice from pasadi97. Holy water is the great illuminer of the soul.
That was the wrong day for me to wear a white t-shirt.  But it was the right day for the rest of the ecumene. 
 

AntoniousNikolas

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Mor Ephrem said:
TheTrisagion said:
When I met Mor IRL, I doused him with good Eastern Orthodox holy water. He didn't dissolve, so I felt that it was probably safe to talk with him. That is my SOP when dealing with the heretical Monofff-Iz-Ites. I learned this practice from pasadi97. Holy water is the great illuminer of the soul.
That was the wrong day for me to wear a white t-shirt.  But it was the right day for the rest of the ecumene.
I'm sure that from Trisagion's perspective the whole encounter took place in slow motion to the strains of Moving in Stereo by The Cars.
 

TheTrisagion

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Antonious Nikolas said:
Mor Ephrem said:
TheTrisagion said:
When I met Mor IRL, I doused him with good Eastern Orthodox holy water. He didn't dissolve, so I felt that it was probably safe to talk with him. That is my SOP when dealing with the heretical Monofff-Iz-Ites. I learned this practice from pasadi97. Holy water is the great illuminer of the soul.
That was the wrong day for me to wear a white t-shirt.  But it was the right day for the rest of the ecumene.
I'm sure that from Trisagion's perspective the whole encounter took place in slow motion to the strains of Moving in Stereo by The Cars.
but...but... HOW DID YOU KNOW?!?!?!
 

AntoniousNikolas

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TheTrisagion said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
Mor Ephrem said:
TheTrisagion said:
When I met Mor IRL, I doused him with good Eastern Orthodox holy water. He didn't dissolve, so I felt that it was probably safe to talk with him. That is my SOP when dealing with the heretical Monofff-Iz-Ites. I learned this practice from pasadi97. Holy water is the great illuminer of the soul.
That was the wrong day for me to wear a white t-shirt.  But it was the right day for the rest of the ecumene.
I'm sure that from Trisagion's perspective the whole encounter took place in slow motion to the strains of Moving in Stereo by The Cars.
but...but... HOW DID YOU KNOW?!?!?!
Monofff-Iz-Ite magic.  Don't mess with me, boy.  ;)
 
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