An acquaintance of mine who is involved with the Ephraim Monasteries spoke about it, they in turn heard it from someone who would know (someone at the monastery?), there has also been another individual who has said the same thing but from a completely separate area. I would not be shocked either, however, this would be very spiritually devastating for the GOAWhat's your source(s) for the rumor?
I wouldn't be too surprised if this happened, but it is a huge change.
What's that, the St. Symeon the New Theologian school of thought? (serious question)I actually agree with the position of the abbots who defy their bishops on this issue.
I was taught that an abbot or abbess had standing and authority equal to a bishop,
Both abbot/abbess and bishop subject to the Archbishop and all subject to the Holy Synod.
If the Patriarch of Constantinople makes false union with Rome, Mt Athos itself will defy him. That would be a greater blow.I haven't heard anything to this effect and am certainly not in the loop on Elder Ephraim's monasteries, but I live within driving distance of one (St. Kosmas Aitolos Monastery here in Canada), have visited, and noticed what I would put politely as a very different ethos to the average local Greek Orthodox church. Simply put, I wouldn't be surprised, and I certainly wouldn't question them.
Also, aren't these monasteries the only GOARCH assets that are actually financially solvent? That's going to be a big blow to them and the EP.
Like I said in a previous post concerning Patriarch Bartholomew's inevitable (IMHO) union with Rome:If the Patriarch of Constantinople makes false union with Rome, Mt Athos itself will defy him. That would be a greater blow.
It depends on their level of obeisance to the EP. That said, as those monasteries are under the EP, what recourse do the monks have to defy the Patriarch?Some monasteries on Athos were fine with concelebrating with OCU delegations, so just because it's Athos it doesn't mean anything.
I share your sentiment... plus, as American Orthodox laymen, which bishop are we obedient to? If I am baptized and raised in a Russian Orthodox parish, but in my adult life I move and start attending a Greek Orthodox parish, and I get married and have my children baptized there, should I follow Metropolitan Hilarion of the ROCOR or Archbishop Elpidophoros of the GOARCH? What about when their verdicts contradict?And really, if you don't obey the bishop, are you even orthodox? Maybe in rare cases when a bishop is betraying his office...
That is the hard part. Some would say wearing masks in church is a sign of apostasy. They really take it that far! But I think it is a real slippery slope. If you judge your bishop based on these things, at one point do you start taking yourself as being more authoritative in matters of the faith than the bishop? Isn't it somewhat arrogant? What is stopping you from defying anything from the bishop that contradicts your own understanding in reason?
It isn't an easy thing. I was told by an abbot that it is our duty to hold bishops accountable. At this point, are we acting as protestants? Who am I to question my bishop? It is easy to misjudge a bishop based on one's own faulty or incomplete understanding of a canon or something like that.
What do I know? I am supposed to obey my bishop. It is good for me to do so, and it is a weapon against pride. In the end, if my bishop leads me astray, I will not be judged for acting in obedience.
Would there ever be a case where I would defy my bishop? It would really have to be something obvious!
The way I see it, a bishop has the power to bind and loose within their domain. Whatever they say goes. Is that naive? Maybe. Would I ever disobey my bishop? I couldn't accept a false union with Rome. I very strongly am against papal supremacy, considering such a dogma to be a forerunner of anti-Christ. I am also in truth very iffy about the title "ecumenical patriarch" for the title of the patriarch of Constantinople.
Conscience X present corcumstances seems like a good starting place.I share your sentiment... plus, as American Orthodox laymen, which bishop are we obedient to? If I am baptized and raised in a Russian Orthodox parish, but in my adult life I move and start attending a Greek Orthodox parish, and I get married and have my children baptized there, should I follow Metropolitan Hilarion of the ROCOR or Archbishop Elpidophoros of the GOARCH? What about when their verdicts contradict?
Biro, I also am sincerely curious if you would follow them into union with Rome, where all signs point to it going. I mostly go to a GOARCH parish and my spiritual father is in GOARCH, I also used to go to the monasteries when I lived closer to one....having said that, when (I think its safe to say when at this point) the Ecumenical Patriarchate/Abp. Elpidophoros decide to go into union with Rome, I will not be going, neither will my spiritual father or his parish, I would imagine dozens of other GOARCH parishes would not go either.No, you’re not.
Now I have to watch that movie. Will I regret it?"A man can be harmed by another only through the causes of the passions which lie within himself. It is for this reason that God, the creator of all and the doctor of men's souls, who alone has accurate knowledge of the soul's wounds, does not tell us to forsake the company of men; He tells us to root out the causes of evil within us and to recognize that the souls' health is achieved not by a man's separating himself from his fellows, but by his living the ascetic life in the company of holy men. When we abandon our brothers for some apparently good reason, we do not eradicate the motives for dejection but merely exchange them, since the sickness which lies hidden within us will show itself again in other circumstances."
--St. John Cassian