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Fate of Orthodox Christianity's Great and Holy Council Hangs in the Balance

podkarpatska

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Worth the read is this, "Fate of Orthodox Christianity's Great and Holy Council Hangs in the Balance." 'During the meeting of Christian Orthodox Primates (heads of local Orthodox churches), which begins today in Switzerland, the participants will show the world whether the unity of the Orthodox Church is more important than their particular agendas. The issue facing the Primates is whether to convene, as planned, a “Holy and Great” Council of the Orthodox Church, or Pan-Orthodox Council as it is also called, around the feast of Pentecost, in June of this year. The Holy and Great Council (if it takes place) will have historical momentum, not only for Orthodox believers, but also for the global religious landscape. Given increasing religious pluralism on the international scene, the fall of the Soviet Union, and growing secularization in developed countries, the convocation of a Pan-Orthodox Council is, in part, intended to signal the continued unity of communion among the fourteen independent, or autocephalous, Orthodox Churches.' http://us6.campaign-archive2.com/?u=6b2c705bf61d6edb1d5e0549d&id=4fed084a07&e=880ed8b00f
 

Iconodule

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Hm, IMO the article doesn't have any new information or particularly deep analysis.
 

Opus118

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Iconodule said:
Hm, IMO the article doesn't have any new information or particularly deep analysis.
This came out today: http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2016/01/the-future-pan-orthodox-council-to-be-or-not-to-be

I scanned through it. I thought it would be worth reading when I have the time. The title and topic is in the web address.
 

podkarpatska

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Opus118 said:
Iconodule said:
Hm, IMO the article doesn't have any new information or particularly deep analysis.
This came out today: http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2016/01/the-future-pan-orthodox-council-to-be-or-not-to-be

I scanned through it. I thought it would be worth reading when I have the time. The title and topic is in the web address.
Thank you, that came to me from my brother earlier today without a link and it is far more substantive and provocative...
 

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One of the role of the Preconciliar Conferences has been to prepare documents on ten topics to be studied by the Council:

    The Orthodox Diaspora.
    The way in which autocephaly is granted.

    The way in which autonomy is granted to semi-independent churches within autocephalous churches, like the orthodox church of Finland that belongs to the jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.
    The diptychs. They are the list of autocephalous churches according to their honor and rank. Can the order of the churches be changed?
    The Church calendar. Some orthodox churches still use the old Julian calendar (the Russian Orthodox Church for instance), others has adopted the new Gregorian calendar (like the Church of Greece). The Council will have to promote a common practice.

    Canonical impediments to marriage, especially in the case of inter-Christian marriages. 
    Fasting. Should the rules of fasting on Wednesdays and Fridays be changed?
    Relationships with the non-Orthodox denominations, such as the Roman Catholic Church, and the Anglican Communion.
    The ecumenical movement.

    The contribution of Orthodoxy to affirming peace, fraternity, and freedom.
There is probably too much disagreement at this point for a constructive discussion on the bold part.
The part about fasting rules should not even be a question except as it it serves as an annoyance to people who would hardly think of changing it.
 

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rakovsky said:
There is probably too much disagreement at this point for a constructive discussion on the bold part.
The part about fasting rules should not even be a question except as it it serves as an annoyance to people who would hardly think of changing it.
From what I read before these changes in fasting (or at least propositions) meant allowing fish on fast apart from Wednesdays and Fridays and extending non-fast period to before Annunciation. Hardly a revolution
 

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Opus118 said:
Iconodule said:
Hm, IMO the article doesn't have any new information or particularly deep analysis.
This came out today: http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2016/01/the-future-pan-orthodox-council-to-be-or-not-to-be

I scanned through it. I thought it would be worth reading when I have the time. The title and topic is in the web address.
Met. Onufry's reason for opposing the council seems almost Protestant. "Sola Seven Councils!"
 
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The First Things article doesn't tell us anything we don't already know (whether it is fact or opinion).    I think the headline is sensationalist and not helpful to the process.  It is an op ed piece, and should be treated as one.

Yes it has been pulling teeth to get this all together.    I think we should be prayerfully hopeful and see what happens. 
 

LenInSebastopol

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Yes, only God can do miracles.
The rest is up to the fallibles.
Lord, help them.
 

FatherGiryus

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After watching the 'Assemblies of Bishops' process descend into relative non-functionality, I don't have very high expectations for this event, even if they do somehow manage to get everyone in the same room.
 

Mor Ephrem

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FatherGiryus said:
After watching the 'Assemblies of Bishops' process descend into relative non-functionality, I don't have very high expectations for this event, even if they do somehow manage to get everyone in the same room.
I'm holding out for a concelebrated Liturgy.  Those are nice. 
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
FatherGiryus said:
After watching the 'Assemblies of Bishops' process descend into relative non-functionality, I don't have very high expectations for this event, even if they do somehow manage to get everyone in the same room.
I'm holding out for a concelebrated Liturgy.  Those are nice.
Not sure they can manage those anymore.
 

Mor Ephrem

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FatherGiryus said:
Mor Ephrem said:
FatherGiryus said:
After watching the 'Assemblies of Bishops' process descend into relative non-functionality, I don't have very high expectations for this event, even if they do somehow manage to get everyone in the same room.
I'm holding out for a concelebrated Liturgy.  Those are nice.
Not sure they can manage those anymore.
"Behold, how good and how pleasant it is when brothers dwell in unity!"
 

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One thing is for certain: the diptychs shouldn't be changed at all.
 

Iconodule

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NicholasMyra said:
First Fings said:
When it happens, this Council will be an event of considerable historical import, bringing together the leaders of all Orthodox Churches for the first time since 787.
Fantastic picture. Where'd you find it?
 

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The last sentence of "The Chanting of the Diptychs According to the practice of the Orthodox Church in America" (page 2 of the link given in post #20) manages to be both wise and humorous at the same time: "It is helpful for the choir director and the first
deacon to coordinate the translation to be utilized."  ;)
 

LenInSebastopol

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FinnJames said:
The last sentence of "The Chanting of the Diptychs According to the practice of the Orthodox Church in America" (page 2 of the link given in post #20) manages to be both wise and humorous at the same time: "It is helpful for the choir director and the first
deacon to coordinate the translation to be utilized."  ;)
THAT alone may set teeth on edge. :)

My pride finds that is the reason America should be The Fourth-whatever-it-is-called. While all those other regions are still busy killing their minorities for the last 1,000 years+, this country has had little of that AND it is a place where all mankind has fond a City on The Hill environment conducive to living together; and that is in spite of the devil driven-communist propaganda and teachings regarding hatred in this country!
 

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The contribution of Orthodoxy to affirming peace, fraternity, and freedom.
Why i do not like this at all ? Maybe i don't understand ?
 

LizaSymonenko

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Nothing should change...we are Orthodox...we do not change.      :angel:
 

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LenInSebastopol said:
and that is in spite of the devil driven-communist propaganda and teachings regarding hatred in this country!
Um, what?
 

Opus118

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biro said:
LenInSebastopol said:
and that is in spite of the devil driven-communist propaganda and teachings regarding hatred in this country!
Um, what?
I read this twice. I think he was reflecting on how they demonize our culture rather than their own.

Nice to hear from you. I get worried sometimes.
 

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Opus118 said:
biro said:
LenInSebastopol said:
and that is in spite of the devil driven-communist propaganda and teachings regarding hatred in this country!
Um, what?
I read this twice. I think he was reflecting on how they demonize our culture rather than their own.

Nice to hear from you. I get worried sometimes.
That's more charitable then I translated that post. I hope you're right, if so that's true.  I guess a lot of us have in our family's (usually a 1st,  2nd, or 3rd generation teenage boy) who turns radically anti-American / New Western country, and that can get tiresome.  I guess the rest is hyperbole.
 

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William T said:
Opus118 said:
biro said:
LenInSebastopol said:
and that is in spite of the devil driven-communist propaganda and teachings regarding hatred in this country!
Um, what?
I read this twice. I think he was reflecting on how they demonize our culture rather than their own.

Nice to hear from you. I get worried sometimes.
That's more charitable then I translated that post. I hope you're right, if so that's true.  I guess a lot of us have in our family's (usually a 1st,  2nd, or 3rd generation teenage boy) who turns radically anti-American / New Western country, and that can get tiresome.  I guess the rest is hyperbole.
You make a finer point; as a first gen American I have been told that it takes three generations to become a 'true' American. That observation is born out in further thought as I see it in my children and the kids from the old 'hood. Life is good in this great country as immigrants know, and their informed offspring are told as they see the hardships left on their parents' faces and hear the tales of life in the old country. By the third generation all the that is but a fairy tale and this good life is not only taken for granted but grumbling & demand for 'change' grows.
Up pops those that have other agendas teaching the ills of America (and we do have them, no denials)  teaching youngsters values outside of what made this country The City on The Hill. There are those that wish to divide America, just as was done in the Old World, into groups based on falsehoods and hatred. I happen to call the 'communists' since Stalin was one and utilized hatred by minorities (of all sorts) to consolidate his Union.  Worked for him so his followers were instructed to use the same tactics in the 1930's, via the Communist Party, USA, (taking fruit in the 60's) and now........
Oh,, and the 'devil' remark is also true, "You shall be like gods", Gen 3:5 , as that is the promise & lie of the Chief Liar; the only exception is that he promises Paradise if we kick God out, just as communism mandates.
I know; crazy stuff, eh, but now you've been schooled.
 

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LenInSebastopol said:
William T said:
Opus118 said:
biro said:
LenInSebastopol said:
and that is in spite of the devil driven-communist propaganda and teachings regarding hatred in this country!
Um, what?
I read this twice. I think he was reflecting on how they demonize our culture rather than their own.

Nice to hear from you. I get worried sometimes.
That's more charitable then I translated that post. I hope you're right, if so that's true.  I guess a lot of us have in our family's (usually a 1st,  2nd, or 3rd generation teenage boy) who turns radically anti-American / New Western country, and that can get tiresome.  I guess the rest is hyperbole.
You make a finer point; as a first gen American I have been told that it takes three generations to become a 'true' American. That observation is born out in further thought as I see it in my children and the kids from the old 'hood. Life is good in this great country as immigrants know, and their informed offspring are told as they see the hardships left on their parents' faces and hear the tales of life in the old country. By the third generation all the that is but a fairy tale and this good life is not only taken for granted but grumbling & demand for 'change' grows.
Up pops those that have other agendas teaching the ills of America (and we do have them, no denials)  teaching youngsters values outside of what made this country The City on The Hill. There are those that wish to divide America, just as was done in the Old World, into groups based on falsehoods and hatred. I happen to call the 'communists' since Stalin was one and utilized hatred by minorities (of all sorts) to consolidate his Union.  Worked for him so his followers were instructed to use the same tactics in the 1930's, via the Communist Party, USA, (taking fruit in the 60's) and now........
Oh,, and the 'devil' remark is also true, "You shall be like gods", Gen 3:5 , as that is the promise & lie of the Chief Liar; the only exception is that he promises Paradise if we kick God out, just as communism mandates.
I know; crazy stuff, eh, but now you've been schooled.
You are becoming second WPM. But his posts are shorter.
 
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