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Father Alexander Schmemann and Western Rite Orthodoxy

IreneOlinyk

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Is the original article by Fr. Alexander in 1958 available online for us to read in order to make a comparison?
 

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IreneOlinyk said:
Is the original article by Fr. Alexander in 1958 available online for us to read in order to make a comparison?
This seems to be it: http://www.schmemann.org/byhim/westernrite.html

I would say the article Prufrock shared squares with what Fr. Schmemann wrote. Regardless of how one thinks of the Western Rite in principle, it's hard to deny that, on the ground, it had a very rocky start and doesn't seem terribly stable even today.
 

Agabus

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Iconodule said:
IreneOlinyk said:
Is the original article by Fr. Alexander in 1958 available online for us to read in order to make a comparison?
This seems to be it: http://www.schmemann.org/byhim/westernrite.html

I would say the article Prufrock shared squares with what Fr. Schmemann wrote. Regardless of how one thinks of the Western Rite in principle, it's hard to deny that, on the ground, it had a very rocky start and doesn't seem terribly stable even today.
Based on what I've read of the history, it is probably the most stable it has ever been today.
 

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True, it sounds like a lot has improved, especially the AWRV. Maybe the biggest obstacles now are the inferiority complex a lot WR folks seem to have vis-à-vis the East (to some degree it's inevitable) and the indifference of most of the hierarchy. That WR doesn't seem to have been even considered in Guatemala or the Philippines shows there's a long way to go.
 

Agabus

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Iconodule said:
True, it sounds like a lot has improved, especially the AWRV. Maybe the biggest obstacles now are the inferiority complex a lot WR folks seem to have vis-à-vis the East (to some degree it's inevitable) and the indifference of most of the hierarchy. That WR doesn't seem to have been even considered in Guatemala or the Philippines shows there's a long way to go.
That's where the oft circular discussion that happens here needs to be resolved: is it a rite proper or a good but limited pastoral provision? ROCOR seems to be embracing the former more and more. I can't get a good bead on the AWRV.
 

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I'm confused about that. Back in 2013, with the fallout over Bishop Jerome and all, ROCOR issued a fairly vague statement that made it sound, to many readers, like they were going to treat their WR as a transitional measure toward full Byzantinization. Since then, though, it looks like they've added parishes and the roll-up many were fearing hasn't materialized. Was there an actual change of heart? Did we just misunderstand the statement?
 

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Iconodule said:
I'm confused about that. Back in 2013, with the fallout over Bishop Jerome and all, ROCOR issued a fairly vague statement that made it sound, to many readers, like they were going to treat their WR as a transitional measure toward full Byzantinization. Since then, though, it looks like they've added parishes and the roll-up many were fearing hasn't materialized. Was there an actual change of heart? Did we just misunderstand the statement?
I agree that some clarification from the leadership would be helpful, not only for those of us who support the effort but from a distance considering the fairly recent history, but also for the sake of history. What was the pastoral and administrative process that got us from the 2013 implosion to the current [healthier to the eyes] situation?

From what I can tell, the current ROCOR dean working in the U.S. is much more able (and apparently much less manipulative) than Anthony Bondi was.
 

scamandrius

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Iconodule said:
IreneOlinyk said:
Is the original article by Fr. Alexander in 1958 available online for us to read in order to make a comparison?
This seems to be it: http://www.schmemann.org/byhim/westernrite.html

I would say the article Prufrock shared squares with what Fr. Schmemann wrote. Regardless of how one thinks of the Western Rite in principle, it's hard to deny that, on the ground, it had a very rocky start and doesn't seem terribly stable even today.
It's not and western rite parishes tend to close pretty fast, at least in the antiochian Western Rite Vicariate.  The WRO church in my town continues to hang by a thread as many of those members continue to come over to the Eastern Rite churches. 
 
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