Mor Ephrem said:
Clemente said:
I won't repost this thread. I encourage readers to review for themselves. You have provided a lot of support and have continually given Iconodule the benefit of the doubt, whilst criticising harshly Father Trenham.
You can't quote it because it doesn't exist. I have not harshly criticised Fr Josiah in this thread. I barely criticised him at all.
Amongst other jewels in this thread:
I will say that I see a difference between someone who knows the traditional teaching of the Church and struggles with it in light of some personal experiences and someone who is actively working to change Church teaching and practice because they believe it is false as it exists. I understand Iconodule to be the former."
No, Mor, it was the latter. You had a 50/50 and you chose wrong. Every time.
Where did Iconodule say he was actively working to change Church teaching and practice? In fact, he has said "I've changed my mind about this once, so perhaps I could change it again. I don't find the present arguments to be especially persuasive, however." That's someone you can reach out to, someone you can work with, someone you can win over to the side of Orthodox teaching on homosexuality, because that's someone who is willing to listen. Your problem is that you don't have anything to offer.
I don't expect an apology from you calling me a liar, since I think you are good with bullying, but poor with admitting you were wrong.
You were lying about my words and my beliefs. I've challenged you on it before and you've come up with nothing.
Clemente said:
I encourage readers to review for themselves.
Liar. LIAR. LIAR!
You must be, what, 14 years old? You need to give the keyboard back to Mother Mor.
"You can't quote it because it doesn't exist. I have not harshly criticised Fr Josiah in this thread. I barely criticised him at all."
I know you like to bully some of your fan boys here on OC.net, but I cannot see the point of responding to some of your points, since your responses rely heavily on the fallacy of a distinction without a difference. I can quote heavily for all to see your criticism of Father Trenham and anyone doubting can just re-read this thread. Its "existence" does not depend on whether it is harsh or not, so stop with your silly, fallacious denials.
Liar. LIAR. LIAR!
You have consistently shown bias in this thread. You have "hearted" prurient jokes about Father Trenham, an Orthodox priest in good standing. Meanwhile, a poster who longs for a change in Church teaching on homosexuality gets praised as "awesome".
And, whilst paying fealty to the inchoate OC.net statement about homosexuality, you seem to invite debate about it and provide tepid justification. "Scripture doesn't seem to hold a [positive] view about homosexuality" but hey, maybe we don't understand Scripture well enough, eh?
Liar. LIAR. LIAR!
But wait. Iconodule is not "actively working to change Church teaching and practice".
This is a laughable distinction without a difference, again. If I want the Church to change its view on homosexuality and I spend pages and pages on the most popular Orthodox website in the world explaining why that makes sense--why, it's just like contraception, you know--I am actively working to change Church teaching and practice.
Now, I know you like to shout "Liar. LIAR. LIAR!" when anybody here even questions the sagacity of the mighty Mor (as you love to think of yourself, "Mor is always the best"). You may discount me as a liar--your perception of me matters very little. However, if I am a just a bad poster, you have a bad fact in this thread:
A number of posters, such as Charles Martel, have shared the same perception about your bias. So, by your logic, there are a lot of liars here (basically anybody who disagrees with you). So you are either a magnet for liars, or perhaps the perception that we have of you is true.
I agree with almost nothing that you have written in this thread. But perhaps my greatest disagreement with you is that this thread is somehow edifying to God. You have given a platform to Orthodox posters to express their heterodoxy. You have provided the most flaccid, disengenuous justification for this: "That's someone you can reach out to, someone you can work with, someone you can win over to the side of Orthodox teaching on homosexuality, because that's someone who is willing to listen."
Is that what you have achieved? Do you really think that this thread has served to win over the pro-gay side to Orthodox teaching on homosexuality?
That is laughable, and you know it. You have "enabled" the Pink Mafia to spread its heterodoxy by giving them pages and pages of "safe space" to express their heterodoxy. Well done!
Can you point to even one formerly pro-gay poster, who as a result of this thread, is now won "over to the side of Orthodox teaching on homosexuality"? Just one? Anyone?
Of course you cannot. Because what is more important to you than promoting "Orthodox teaching on homosexuality" is promoting OC.net. Page views, baby!
If I am wrong, I would happily apologise and rejoice that a prodigal son has returned. Unlike you, I am not afraid to admit I am wrong in the face of contrary evidence.
PS. I love that you quote me in your sig line. I pray that many Orthodox here will spend time listening to AFR and visiting other parishes rather than viewing threads like this in the surreal bubble that is OC.net. Please, please, don't ever remove that quote! It is a badge of honour.