Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome

augustin717

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This priest is a drama Queen . This satisfactotrily explains it all.
 

Clemente

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Iconodule said:
Clemente said:
"We should not remain silent and look with indifference at a world that is gradually deteriorating. Rather, we should proclaim Christian morality and teach it openly not only in our churches, but also in public spaces including secular schools, universities and in the arena of the mass media. We do not presume to impose our views on anybody but we wish that our voice be heard by those who want to hear it. Unfortunately, we cannot convert the whole world to God, but we should at least make people think about the meaning of life and the existence of absolute spiritual and moral values. We are obliged to bear witness to the true faith always and everywhere so that at least some may be saved (1 Cor. 9:22
I agree with Met Hilarion, which is precisely why clerics like Fr Josiah should be vocally opposed when they proliferate poisonous worldly ideologies with a superficial Christian guise.
Another completely scurrilous and unsupported accusation against an Orthodox priest in good standing. Wow, this thread is amazing for its lack of substance.
 

Mor Ephrem

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NicholasMyra said:
1. The Mt. Rubidoux Cross affair.
Interesting. 

John of Damascus][b]Is not the thrice-precious and thrice-blessed wood of the cross matter?  Is not the holy and august mountain said:
Performing bizarre public stunts to save stones and dust from being converted into other forms of stone and dust.
 

Georgios Scholarios

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While NicholasMyra and Iconodule make fair criticisms of Fr. Josiah - after all, he's very public about what he says, so he should expect criticism - it's certainly extreme to accuse him of being "an embarrassment to all who bear the name of Christ" (!). Christ said if you love only those who love you, what credit is there? I think we should refrain from strong language like that.



 

Mor Ephrem

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Samn! said:
Clemente said:
2. That was hardly blasphemy. Do you know what that word means? Fail
It's definitely the case that a priest unilaterally inventing his own liturgical theatrics to make a political point is a big no-no and rather more appropriate to a megachurch than to Orthodoxy, whether you want to call that 'blasphemy' or something else.
+1

Fr Josiah's extremely ill-informed talks about Islam that he's been going around the country giving, even as a 'Lenten retreat' are also quite alarming and very out of touch with the experience and witness of his Patriarchate of Antioch.
To be fair, it's not the first time American convert clergy were out of step with the experience and witness of their Patriarchate of Antioch, and it's likely not the last time. 
 

Antonis

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Mor Ephrem said:
NicholasMyra said:
1. The Mt. Rubidoux Cross affair.
Interesting. 

John of Damascus][b]Is not the thrice-precious and thrice-blessed wood of the cross matter?  Is not the holy and august mountain said:
Performing bizarre public stunts to save stones and dust from being converted into other forms of stone and dust.
It has been evidenced in other threads that these two do not accept the sanctification of matter.
 

Mor Ephrem

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Antonis said:
Mor Ephrem said:
NicholasMyra said:
1. The Mt. Rubidoux Cross affair.
Interesting. 

John of Damascus][b]Is not the thrice-precious and thrice-blessed wood of the cross matter?  Is not the holy and august mountain said:
Performing bizarre public stunts to save stones and dust from being converted into other forms of stone and dust.
It has been evidenced in other threads that these two do not accept the sanctification of matter.
Which two? 
 

NicholasMyra

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Mor Ephrem said:
NicholasMyra said:
1. The Mt. Rubidoux Cross affair.
Interesting. 

[quote author=John of Damascus]Is not the thrice-precious and thrice-blessed wood of the cross matter?  Is not the holy and august mountain, the place of the skull, matter?  Is not the life-giving and life-bearing rock, the holy tomb, the source of the resurrection, matter?  Is not the ink and the all-holy book of the Gospels matter?  Is not the life-bearing table, which offers us the bread of life, matter?  Is not the gold and silver matter, out of which crosses and tablets and bowls are fashioned?  And, before all these things, is not the body and blood of my Lord matter?  Either do away with reverence and veneration for all these or submit to the tradition of the Church and allow the veneration of images of God and friends of God, sanctified by name and therefore overshadowed by the grace of the divine Spirit.  Do not abuse matter; for it is not dishonourable; this is the view of the Manichees.

On the Divine Images, I.16
[/quote]

That's all true and good, we should honor holy things. Nevertheless we don't grandstand for wood, non-human clay and stones in this age as if this is how the endurance of holy things stands or falls. We don't travel abroad seeking some if others are near. We don't lament their destruction as though they are persons. They endure insofar as Christ and his kingdom endures, insofar as the sons of God endure, where holy things cannot be destroyed. We especially don't portray the discorporation of stone and dust artifices in this age as a great loss inflicted by "the world."

The most high does not dwell in temples made with hands.

Unless St. Basil irecconcilably opposes St. John when he says,

"...you...mourn, in giving gold, and silver, and goods — that is, offering stones and dust — in order to obtain the blessed life."
 

Mor Ephrem

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NicholasMyra said:
Mor Ephrem said:
NicholasMyra said:
1. The Mt. Rubidoux Cross affair.
Interesting. 

[quote author=John of Damascus]Is not the thrice-precious and thrice-blessed wood of the cross matter?  Is not the holy and august mountain, the place of the skull, matter?  Is not the life-giving and life-bearing rock, the holy tomb, the source of the resurrection, matter?  Is not the ink and the all-holy book of the Gospels matter?  Is not the life-bearing table, which offers us the bread of life, matter?  Is not the gold and silver matter, out of which crosses and tablets and bowls are fashioned?  And, before all these things, is not the body and blood of my Lord matter?  Either do away with reverence and veneration for all these or submit to the tradition of the Church and allow the veneration of images of God and friends of God, sanctified by name and therefore overshadowed by the grace of the divine Spirit.  Do not abuse matter; for it is not dishonourable; this is the view of the Manichees.

On the Divine Images, I.16
That's all true and good, we should honor holy things. Nevertheless we don't grandstand for wood, non-human clay and stones in this age as if this is how the endurance of holy things stands or falls. We don't travel abroad seeking some if others are near. We don't lament their destruction as though they are persons. They endure insofar as Christ and his kingdom endures, insofar as the sons of God endure, where holy things cannot be destroyed. We especially don't portray the discorporation of stone and dust artifices in this age as a great loss inflicted by "the world."

The most high does not dwell in temples made with hands.[/quote]

It seems you have a problem with your own history. 

Unless St. Basil irecconcilably opposes St. John when he says,

"...you...mourn, in giving gold, and silver, and goods — that is, offering stones and dust — in order to obtain the blessed life."
Citation? 
 

Antonis

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Mor Ephrem said:
Antonis said:
Mor Ephrem said:
NicholasMyra said:
1. The Mt. Rubidoux Cross affair.
Interesting. 

John of Damascus][b]Is not the thrice-precious and thrice-blessed wood of the cross matter?  Is not the holy and august mountain said:
Performing bizarre public stunts to save stones and dust from being converted into other forms of stone and dust.
It has been evidenced in other threads that these two do not accept the sanctification of matter.
Which two?
Pardon me, I meant NicholasMyra.

After his most recent post, one wonders if he recognizes the Seventh Ecumenical Council and the trials endured by the faithful who grandstanded and even died for the public exhibition of mere wood and stone.
 

NicholasMyra

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Antonis said:
After his most recent post, one wonders if he recognizes the Seventh Ecumenical Council and the trials endured by the faithful who grandstanded and even died for the public exhibition of mere wood and stone.
They died peacefully for the veneration of icons, relics, crosses and statues in the church and the attendant theology (except for those who purportedly killed a soldier removing an icon).

Not for the preservation of a single cross erected by sectarians, and not against non-Orthodox church/state authorities, and not with losing-battle rhetoric. And for them it was life or death, not camp/news media.

Yeah, it's a theological tension: Honoring and affirming material things as holy while not holding on to them, as they are in this age, as something to be grasped. But unless we work with it, we devolve into absurdities. Christianity teaches both.
 

Mor Ephrem

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NicholasMyra said:
...Not for the preservation of a single cross erected by sectarians...
The original cross was constructed and erected by authorities of an idolatrous, pagan state egged on by unfaithful "sons of Aaron". 
 

NicholasMyra

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Mor Ephrem said:
NicholasMyra said:
...Not for the preservation of a single cross erected by sectarians...
The original cross was constructed and erected by authorities of an idolatrous, pagan state egged on by unfaithful "sons of Aaron".
And the original cross was laid before the foundations of the world. Christ makes the Cross. Without Christ, it isn't what it is anymore.
 

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NicholasMyra said:
Porter ODoran said:
Don't take the post too seriously, Seekeroftruth. It's a hodge-podge pretty clearly meant to amuse its author and (he hopes) other similarly cynical minds.
There's nothing funny about this.
Oh, believe me, I agree. By "amuse" I meant preening yourself on your own edginess and waiting with bated breath for some other cynical young person to laud you for it.
 

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Clemente said:
Here are some recent Orthodox talks by priests at the Acton Institute:
AUGUST 18, 2015
East Meets West: Consumerism and Asceticism - Fr. Gregory Jensen
Asceticism is concerned with the “inner transformation of the human person, in his being progressively conformed to Christ.” Understood in this way, asceticism has a foundational role to play in any Christian response to the practical and anthropological challenges of consumerism.
46:56
AUGUST 18, 2015
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: Prophet and Critic - Fr. Johannes Jacobse
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, the courageous Russian writer, contributed indispensably to bringing down the Soviet Union. Conventional Western opinion sees his story, too, as ending then. But the conflict of good against evil and truth against lies runs throughout the moral universe, not just the Soviet scene. Moreover, half of his writings are not yet in English. This course explores the unknown Solzhenitsyn.
48:08
AUGUST 18, 2015
Introduction to Orthodox Social Thought - Dylan Pahman
This course offers an introduction to fundamental principles for Orthodox Christian social thought.
46:22
AUGUST 18, 2015
Orthodoxy and Natural Law - Fr. Michael Butler
Eastern Orthodoxy has been ambivalent about natural law. This lecture considers how natural law thinking might work in distinctly Orthodox ways of considering the relationship between faith and reason and examines some implications that might be useful today.
54:14

http://www.ancientfaith.com/specials/acton_university_2015

This is the "anti-Christian think tank" he belongs to? Are Orthodox Fathers Jensen, Jacobse and Butler "anti Christian"?

Any other baseless calumny against an influential and well-respected Orthodox priest that you would like to share?
Ick.
 

Iconodule

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Clemente said:
Here are some recent Orthodox talks by priests at the Acton Institute:
AUGUST 18, 2015
East Meets West: Consumerism and Asceticism - Fr. Gregory Jensen
Asceticism is concerned with the “inner transformation of the human person, in his being progressively conformed to Christ.” Understood in this way, asceticism has a foundational role to play in any Christian response to the practical and anthropological challenges of consumerism.
46:56
AUGUST 18, 2015
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: Prophet and Critic - Fr. Johannes Jacobse
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, the courageous Russian writer, contributed indispensably to bringing down the Soviet Union. Conventional Western opinion sees his story, too, as ending then. But the conflict of good against evil and truth against lies runs throughout the moral universe, not just the Soviet scene. Moreover, half of his writings are not yet in English. This course explores the unknown Solzhenitsyn.
48:08
AUGUST 18, 2015
Introduction to Orthodox Social Thought - Dylan Pahman
This course offers an introduction to fundamental principles for Orthodox Christian social thought.
46:22
AUGUST 18, 2015
Orthodoxy and Natural Law - Fr. Michael Butler
Eastern Orthodoxy has been ambivalent about natural law. This lecture considers how natural law thinking might work in distinctly Orthodox ways of considering the relationship between faith and reason and examines some implications that might be useful today.
54:14

http://www.ancientfaith.com/specials/acton_university_2015

This is the "anti-Christian think tank" he belongs to? Are Orthodox Fathers Jensen, Jacobse and Butler "anti Christian"?
In fact they are. They equate "Orthodox Social Thought" with liberalism. They are actively deceiving people about Christian social teaching.
 
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Iconodule said:
Clemente said:
Here are some recent Orthodox talks by priests at the Acton Institute:
AUGUST 18, 2015
East Meets West: Consumerism and Asceticism - Fr. Gregory Jensen
Asceticism is concerned with the “inner transformation of the human person, in his being progressively conformed to Christ.” Understood in this way, asceticism has a foundational role to play in any Christian response to the practical and anthropological challenges of consumerism.
46:56
AUGUST 18, 2015
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: Prophet and Critic - Fr. Johannes Jacobse
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, the courageous Russian writer, contributed indispensably to bringing down the Soviet Union. Conventional Western opinion sees his story, too, as ending then. But the conflict of good against evil and truth against lies runs throughout the moral universe, not just the Soviet scene. Moreover, half of his writings are not yet in English. This course explores the unknown Solzhenitsyn.
48:08
AUGUST 18, 2015
Introduction to Orthodox Social Thought - Dylan Pahman
This course offers an introduction to fundamental principles for Orthodox Christian social thought.
46:22
AUGUST 18, 2015
Orthodoxy and Natural Law - Fr. Michael Butler
Eastern Orthodoxy has been ambivalent about natural law. This lecture considers how natural law thinking might work in distinctly Orthodox ways of considering the relationship between faith and reason and examines some implications that might be useful today.
54:14

http://www.ancientfaith.com/specials/acton_university_2015

This is the "anti-Christian think tank" he belongs to? Are Orthodox Fathers Jensen, Jacobse and Butler "anti Christian"?
In fact they are. They equate "Orthodox Social Thought" with liberalism. They are actively deceiving people about Christian social teaching.
What is meant by Liberal? Classical Liberal? Economic Liberal? Progressive Liberal? it seems like a too open ended word.
 
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