Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome

RobS

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minasoliman said:
Don't insult the man, but criticize what he does.
That makes no sense. He's going to do what drama queens do cause that's what he is. augustin showed restraint by calling him that although he deserves a more severe rebuke.
 

Cyrillic

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DeniseDenise said:
I guess if you call hatemongering language 'provocation'.....
What about calling people 'snakes' and 'children of vipers'? What about talking about the 'synagogue of Satan'?

Toughen up.
 

Iconodule

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Cyrillic said:
DeniseDenise said:
I guess if you call hatemongering language 'provocation'.....
What about calling people 'snakes' and 'brood of vipers'? What about talking about the 'synagogue of Satan'?

Toughen up.
John the Baptist was risking his life and addressing those "snakes" directly. Fr Josiah is addressing a gathering of his ideological fellow travelers. No one was startled or provoked by his words. There's nothing tough about preaching to the choir.

Not to mention that the "homofascists" are quite powerless in Georgia and elsewhere.
 

DeniseDenise

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Cyrillic said:
DeniseDenise said:
I guess if you call hatemongering language 'provocation'.....
What about calling people 'snakes' and 'children of vipers'? What about talking about the 'synagogue of Satan'?

Toughen up.

Fairly sure its darn difficult to love ones neighbor as ones self while calling them such things......
 

FinnJames

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Samn! said:
What then, is an acceptable way on this forum of criticizing Fr Trenham's highly theatrical and attention-seeking style? The style is the substance, more often than not.
The talk given at the World Congress of Families X on May 15th 2016, in Tbilisi Georgia https://youtu.be/HNXe4P_6dhw does seem to have a sensationalist tabloid press ring to it. But maybe that's a tempting way to preach to the already converted.

What bothers me most when Fr Trenham speaks about the 'gay agenda' is that he stirs up a lot of negative feelings but never states what sort of changes he would like to see. Whether one thinks people are 'born gay' or homosexuality is caused by demons, it's clear that people with homosexual feelings are not going to disappear. And it's also clear that not everyone is or is going to become Orthodox. So if Fr Trenham is going to speak for a political agenda, he really ought to say what changes he wants to happen. Since he appears to long to go back to the 'good old days' when homosexuality was criminalized and mentions but doesn't criticize Islam's punishment of death for sodomy, I guess what he hopes for lies somewhere between the two.

 

Arachne

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Cyrillic said:
Arachne said:
Cyrillic said:
What's a good speech without a bit of provocation?
A good speech.
A bland one full of commonplaces, if you ask me. If you don't leave your audience startled you've done it wrong.
Then you should have asked 'What is a speech without provocation?'. A good speech is a good speech, provocation or not.
 

RobS

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Cyrillic said:
DeniseDenise said:
I guess if you call hatemongering language 'provocation'.....
What about calling people 'snakes' and 'children of vipers'? What about talking about the 'synagogue of Satan'?

Toughen up.
It's bizarre to me cause calling someone a snake or viper is worse than drama queen. It's ridiculous clergy are granted some special privilege yet a few other posters who are earnestly living the faith get mocked and ridiculed.

EDIT: Yes I know you were talking about a different issue, I was extending my thoughts regarding what Mina posted.
 

Cyrillic

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nothing said:
Cyrillic said:
DeniseDenise said:
I guess if you call hatemongering language 'provocation'.....
What about calling people 'snakes' and 'children of vipers'? What about talking about the 'synagogue of Satan'?

Toughen up.
It's bizarre to me cause calling someone a snake or viper is worse than drama queen. It's ridiculous clergy are granted some special privilege yet a few other posters who are earnestly living the faith get mocked and ridiculed.

EDIT: Yes I know you were talking about a different issue, I was extending my thoughts regarding what Mina posted.
What's even worse is the tendency to reduce Christianity to 'niceness', or confusing the teachings of Christ with those of suburban soccer moms.
 

Cyrillic

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Arachne said:
Cyrillic said:
Arachne said:
Cyrillic said:
What's a good speech without a bit of provocation?
A good speech.
A bland one full of commonplaces, if you ask me. If you don't leave your audience startled you've done it wrong.
Then you should have asked 'What is a speech without provocation?'. A good speech is a good speech, provocation or not.
What's a good speech without rhetorical questions?
 

minasoliman

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nothing said:
minasoliman said:
Don't insult the man, but criticize what he does.
That makes no sense. He's going to do what drama queens do cause that's what he is. augustin showed restraint by calling him that although he deserves a more severe rebuke.
Okay, so not only do you challenge my moderation publicly, but you also continue to do exactly what I said three times not to do.

50% penalty.

Anyone else want to challenge my mod directive, you only do it privately, not publicly.

Thank you.

Mina
 

Mor Ephrem

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DeniseDenise said:
Cyrillic said:
DeniseDenise said:
I guess if you call hatemongering language 'provocation'.....
What about calling people 'snakes' and 'children of vipers'? What about talking about the 'synagogue of Satan'?

Toughen up.

Fairly sure its darn difficult to love ones neighbor as ones self while calling them such things......
Would it be fair to suggest, then, that you are fairly sure it is darn difficult for Jesus to love his neighbour? 
 

RobS

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Cyrillic said:
What's even worse is Christianity being reduced to 'niceness' or the morality of suburban soccer moms.
I completely agree although that doesn't mean we sound like buffoons on stage bemoaning transgender bathrooms or mobile public sex apps. That's what Christianity is about? What happened to letting your light shine before others so they can see your good works which gives glory to your Father in heaven?

We should give our enemies dignity and kindness. This is part of a more excellent way to live as Christ has shown, if you want to live a more abundant life, one of joy, light, love, etc.

Has Fr. Josiah shown that? All I read here is more violence against gays. I don't see where he cares for the weak and powerless, which isn't that what homosexuals are in America? Christians aren't very kind to them eventhough God commanded otherwise.
 

DeniseDenise

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Mor Ephrem said:
DeniseDenise said:
Cyrillic said:
DeniseDenise said:
I guess if you call hatemongering language 'provocation'.....
What about calling people 'snakes' and 'children of vipers'? What about talking about the 'synagogue of Satan'?

Toughen up.

Fairly sure its darn difficult to love ones neighbor as ones self while calling them such things......
Would it be fair to suggest, then, that you are fairly sure it is darn difficult for Jesus to love his neighbour?

No.. but we are not God, he is. 

I won't say it makes perfect sense, but its also not a carte blanche to call people such things...'I will just emulating Christ'

there are FAR more examples of him speaking more gently then there are him doing what he did in the temple to the vendors....
 

Mor Ephrem

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DeniseDenise said:
Mor Ephrem said:
DeniseDenise said:
Cyrillic said:
DeniseDenise said:
I guess if you call hatemongering language 'provocation'.....
What about calling people 'snakes' and 'children of vipers'? What about talking about the 'synagogue of Satan'?

Toughen up.

Fairly sure its darn difficult to love ones neighbor as ones self while calling them such things......
Would it be fair to suggest, then, that you are fairly sure it is darn difficult for Jesus to love his neighbour?

No.. but we are not God, he is. 

I won't say it makes perfect sense, but its also not a carte blanche to call people such things...'I will just emulating Christ'

there are FAR more examples of him speaking more gently then there are him doing what he did in the temple to the vendors....
We are not God, but he became man and, "in the days of his flesh" (cf. Heb 5.7), said the things Cyrillic quoted as well as the whole "love your neighbour" bit.   

I agree that this does not constitute a carte blanche to pick one or the other option at will; the fact remains, however, that Jesus did and said certain things at certain times to certain audiences that we might find uncomfortable.  But he knew when to do that and when to do otherwise.  Men and women of discernment also know how to navigate this grey area.  On its own, I'm not sure we can condemn this sort of method.  The question then becomes whether it is appropriate in a given situation. 
 

DeniseDenise

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Mor Ephrem said:
DeniseDenise said:
Mor Ephrem said:
DeniseDenise said:
Cyrillic said:
DeniseDenise said:
I guess if you call hatemongering language 'provocation'.....
What about calling people 'snakes' and 'children of vipers'? What about talking about the 'synagogue of Satan'?

Toughen up.

Fairly sure its darn difficult to love ones neighbor as ones self while calling them such things......
Would it be fair to suggest, then, that you are fairly sure it is darn difficult for Jesus to love his neighbour?

No.. but we are not God, he is. 

I won't say it makes perfect sense, but its also not a carte blanche to call people such things...'I will just emulating Christ'

there are FAR more examples of him speaking more gently then there are him doing what he did in the temple to the vendors....
We are not God, but he became man and, "in the days of his flesh" (cf. Heb 5.7), said the things Cyrillic quoted as well as the whole "love your neighbour" bit.   

I agree that this does not constitute a carte blanche to pick one or the other option at will; the fact remains, however, that Jesus did and said certain things at certain times to certain audiences that we might find uncomfortable.  But he knew when to do that and when to do otherwise.  Men and women of discernment also know how to navigate this grey area.  On its own, I'm not sure we can condemn this sort of method.  The question then becomes whether it is appropriate in a given situation.


and I wouldn't disagree with that overall...but i would posit the notion that Jesus was not trying to convince the Moneychangers to follow him, give up their sin.

Which is precisely WHAT we need to be doing with the LGBT community, not merely calling them vipers and kicking them out to be even more angry at God.

 
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