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Fr. Mark D White: Vision for Nicaea III in 2025 A.D.

Xavier

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Dear Friends, Rev. Father Mark White has some plans for the Third Nicene Council. A Council that is now less than 5 years away.

Your thoughts, dear friends?

From: https://frmarkdwhite.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/vision-for-nicaea-iii-2025/

"Second, the invitation would include the following: Holy Father Francis proposes that the Catechism of the Catholic Church offers the best existing instrument for fostering union. But the Catechism could conceivably be improved.  We will have a process by which any invitee could submit proposed amendments to the Catechism.

This process would need a governing body.  The Catechism already is the fruit of world-wide consultation, so the benefit of the doubt will go to the document as is.  Most of the work processing proposed amendments would have to get done before the Council.  (We need all nine years!)  But no one would foreclose the possibility that proposed amendments could be put to vote at the Council itself.  (All that said, we are not talking about any fundamental changes.)" [the above was written in 2016]
 

Luke

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Hold the Council at Hagia Sophia:p
 

Asteriktos

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Edit--nvm I meant to be light-hearted but I really shouldn't have said anything
 

rakovsky

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Too many obstacles, realistically sorry. Of course it would be good. Simple example is that turkey controls Nicea, and how open with the state of Turkey really be to having a major Council for all Christians in Turkey? Luke's answer above alluded to this problem. I guess theoretically a council could be held in Turkey, since turkey is an officially secular state, but I don't know how realistic that would be none the less due to the status of Christianity in Turkey in real terms. For instance there was the set of anti Greek pogroms in the 1950s and then the alleged coup against erdogan, and the closure of the halki Seminary, and now the Turkish move to make Hagia Sophia a mosque again. This is not even to yet raise the issue of Divisions between major Christian groups.
 

Pravoslavbob

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Xavier said:
Dear Friends, Rev. Father Mark White has some plans for the Third Nicene Council. A Council that is now less than 5 years away.

Your thoughts, dear friends?

From: https://frmarkdwhite.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/vision-for-nicaea-iii-2025/

"Second, the invitation would include the following: Holy Father Francis proposes that the Catechism of the Catholic Church offers the best existing instrument for fostering union. But the Catechism could conceivably be improved. We will have a process by which any invitee could submit proposed amendments to the Catechism.

This process would need a governing body. The Catechism already is the fruit of world-wide consultation, so the benefit of the doubt will go to the document as is. Most of the work processing proposed amendments would have to get done before the Council. (We need all nine years!) But no one would foreclose the possibility that proposed amendments could be put to vote at the Council itself. (All that said, we are not talking about any fundamental changes.)" [the above was written in 2016]
My thoughts are that the ideas put forward by Fr. White are utterly tone deaf when it comes to recognizing any concerns of the Orthodox, but I suppose I should consider the source of this thread. :rolleyes: For starters, It is absolutely outrageous to us to affirm that the married priesthood should and will be abolished. It goes without saying that the papacy in its current form is unacceptable to the Orthodox. But Fr. White writes that we should "acknowledge that the age of autocephalous national Churches has run its course" (a statement that in and of itself betrays a gross ignorance of Orthodox ecclesiology) and states that we all ought to rally around the "norms" outlined in the Roman Catholic Catechism to ensure a properly united Church governance. Speaking of which, reunitng the Churches will be a lot more complicated (and there will be a lot more work involved) than simply augmenting and tweaking the Catholic Cathechism, as Fr. White seems to think. Get real.
 

WPM

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If you Book them ~ They shall come.
 

Serge

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I agree with Pravoslavbob. One of my sayings is if it's not doctrine, it's on the table. For example, married priests are a respected, centuries-old option. This proposed council is Latin-centric opinion, even nonsense, not Catholic doctrine. One priest's imagination.
 

noahzarc1

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Besides the other objections already offered, the writer is ambiguous about what he really believes about the Catechism. He claims it offers the best existing instrument for fostering union, yet could be improved, needs amendments and even those offered from non-Catholics. The writer later claimed the Catholic Catechism teaches the truth as is. If so, why would something that teaches truth need amendments? Absent the thoughts of Orthodox or Protestants, Catholics need to know whether the Catechism teaches all truth, most truth, some truth or no truth. The writer should've expressed which truths he thought were lacking that needed amendments.

https://frmarkdwhite.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/vision-for-nicaea-iii-2025/
 

Deacon Lance

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You can’t be this obtuse or naive.  Abolition of married priesthood is a non-starter for Eastern Catholics,  let alone Orthodox.
 

Ainnir

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Forgive me, but the whole letter sounds like a bait and switch scheme, not a proposal for a conciliatory ecumenical council.
 

Xavier

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Well, I was looking for any article by a Bishop or Priest about Nicaea III; this is the only one I found. I don't agree with Fr. White in every respect of course. For e.g. East and West have their own Celibacy Tradition which has worked well so far. Each goes back more than a millenia. I believe that could be preserved in a re-united Church. So that's one thing.

Location may be an issue, but people will want to commemorate Nicaea in the city itself if they can. At any rate, all Christians were invited to come when the original proposal was made. I think when Pope Francis and Patriarch Bartholomew made the original call in 2014 (the article was written in 2016), maybe one or both suspected they may not make it to 2025. They specifically mentioned "our successors" at the time. But as John Allen wrote more recently, now it looks like both will be alive for the Council in 2025.

"Reports suggest that Francis and Bartholomew have talked about staging some sort of “ecumenical synod” together in 2025, to mark the 1,700th anniversary of the Council of Nicea and its famous creed, which both churches share.

In the abstract, there’s little reason to think the soon-to-be 83-year-old Francis, and the soon-to-be 80-year-old Bartholomew, won’t make it to 2025 and do just that." https://angelusnews.com/voices/could-the-reunion-between-catholics-and-orthodox-be-closer-than-we-thought/

That Re-Union would not mean assimilation but could involve mutual give-and-take has been re-affirmed by none less than Pope Francis himself, "Pope Francis said at that time he believes “that it is important to reaffirm respect for this principle as an essential condition, accepted by both, for the restoration of full communion, which does not signify the submission of one to the other, or assimilation.  Rather, it means welcoming all the gifts that God has given to each, thus demonstrating to the entire world the great mystery of salvation accomplished by Christ the Lord through the Holy Spirit.  I want to assure each one of you here that, to reach the desired goal of full unity, the Catholic Church does not intend to impose any conditions except that of the shared profession of faith.  Further, I would add that we are ready to seek together, in light of Scriptural teaching and the experience of the first millennium, the ways in which we can guarantee the needed unity of the Church in the present circumstances.  The one thing that the Catholic Church desires, and that I seek as Bishop of Rome, “the Church which presides in charity”, is communion with the Orthodox Churches.  Such communion will always be the fruit of that love which “has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us” (cf. Rom 5:5), a fraternal love which expresses the spiritual and transcendent bond which unites us as disciples of the Lord.”" https://joansrome.wordpress.com/category/patriarch-kirill-of-moscow/

When Pope Francis used that same expression "Church of Rome presides in Charity", shortly after his election, the Patriarchate of Moscow suggested that that was a step toward Orthodox Christian Ecclesiology. The status of the ecumenical dialogue, according to this site, was last updated at Ravenna: "A further step would be an advancement in ecumenical dialogue. The last theological document was issued in Ravenna, Italy by a Catholic-Orthodox mixed commission. Both parties agreed that the Pope of Rome has a sort of primacy, and presides in charity for the other Christian churches. But still, there is not any agreement about how this primacy must be exercised." https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/four-reasons-why-pope-francis-will-meet-with-patriarch-kirill-85933

There's definitely a long way to go, but that's what the next 5 odd years are there for! And even after that, no one expects re-union to happen overnight. It will be a long process. But I truly do believe, in light of the consensus already reached, that in 10 to 15 years Catholic and Orthodox Christians may get there, and belong again to a Re-United Church in both East and West, as we did in the First Millenium. Let's pray and hope that the best is done according to the Lord's Will.
 

Brilko

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There may be a meeting. If there is, barring a major miracle like Christ descending with a scroll to be signed by all participants, it is unlikely to be remembered as Nicaea III.
 

Michael Seraphim

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Rome should be wary of Synods. Remember Vigilius and Honorius and Nicholas...
 
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I think a general sense of good will among Orthodox & Catholic laity can do more for our mutual salvation than some suspicious, top down ecumenism.

Despite our differences, laity in both churches have enough moral & credal understanding for mutual salvation but not for communion.
 
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