Gay marriage could signal return to ‘centuries of persecution’, say RCC priests

vamrat

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primuspilus said:
1054 priests signed it. How does that compare to the number of Catholics who coming forward with accounts of being sexually abused by priests?
It doesn't compare. They are 2 completely separate issues.

PP
Indeed, the 1,054 Priests are doing something that doesn't grant cash and prizes.  I always suspect the accuser when settlements are involved.
 

88Devin12

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Michał Kalina said:
88Devin12 teaching a Jew about "true" modern Judaism.

<popcorn>
If you're an Orthodox Christian, you have to agree that all of modern Judaism and Jews aren't God's chosen people and are not "Jews" or "Israel", those attributes belong to the Orthodox Church.

Also, even compared to Judaism of the time of Christ, yes, most of modern Judaism is fake and pretend.

You cannot be an Orthodox Christian and believe the Jews are still God's chosen people and are still Jews.

I sincerely hope that modern Judaism (the ones which are liberalizing) dies a terrible, and quick death. Same thing for all of "progressive" and liberal "Christianity".
 

AveChriste11

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88Devin12 said:
Michał Kalina said:
88Devin12 teaching a Jew about "true" modern Judaism.

<popcorn>
If you're an Orthodox Christian, you have to agree that all of modern Judaism and Jews aren't God's chosen people and are not "Jews" or "Israel", those attributes belong to the Orthodox Church.

Also, even compared to Judaism of the time of Christ, yes, most of modern Judaism is fake and pretend.

You cannot be an Orthodox Christian and believe the Jews are still God's chosen people and are still Jews.

I sincerely hope that modern Judaism (the ones which are liberalizing) dies a terrible, and quick death. Same thing for all of "progressive" and liberal "Christianity".
Thanks for helping us realize some of us were never really Orthodox.......... lol
 

biro

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[quote author=88Devin12]
I sincerely hope that modern Judaism (the ones which are liberalizing) dies a terrible, and quick death. Same thing for all of "progressive" and liberal "Christianity".
[/quote]

Lots of modern Jews actually did die horrible deaths, not too long ago.

Do you think at all before you set fingers to keyboard?

If half of the people who post here are as angry in real life as they are on this board, we're all lost.
 

Charles Martel

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choy said:
In a way this circles back to us.  Christians have maltreated gays for centuries, instead of being charitable to them and helping them with their struggle, they were maligned and abused.  Now they have "rights" on their side, this is going back to bite us.  Because of our track record for handling this issue, no one is taking our side.
What? What are you talking about? What "christians" might that be?

If anything, the followers of Christ have went out of their way to placate these sodmites. Why don't they go take their chances with the Moslems or pagans and come back and tell Christians how awful we "treated them.

This whole "gay bashing" by the Church and Christians is really getting old and one of the biggest lies perpetuated out there.

Enough already.
 

Charles Martel

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Ashman618 said:
1054 priests, lol it seems fate is not without a sense of irony
Hmmm..... Why should that specific number mean something to me?

I don't know, I guess it doesn't.  ;D
 

Charles Martel

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pmpn8rGPT said:
Jetavan said:
More than 1,000 priests have signed a letter voicing alarm that same-sex marriage could threaten religious freedom in a way last seen during “centuries of persecution” of Roman Catholics in England.

In one of the biggest joint letters of its type ever written, they raise fears that their freedom to practise and speak about their faith will be “severely” limited and dismiss Government reassurances as "meaningless".

They even liken David Cameron’s moves to redefine marriage to those of Henry VIII, whose efforts to secure a divorce from Katherine of Aragon triggered centuries of bloody upheaval between church and state.

They claim that, taken in combination with equalities laws and other legal restraints, the Coalition's plans will prevent Catholics and other Christians who work in schools, charities and other public bodies speaking freely about their beliefs on the meaning of marriage.
Disgusting how religious leaders care about legislation

Even more so how uncharitable these statements are

We should love and pray for the sinners, if gay marriage is somehow a cause for Christian persecution then it is our own fault for not showing love and compassion
and doing what we can to make them want to seek repentance from their promiscuous and homosexual behavior

Good thing we're not RCs
What? Not to call sin and error for what it is? And how is that some way considered "compassion?

What in God's holy name is wrong with "christians" today, especially on the Internet?

I swear half the Christian Internet is choke full of homosexuals or homosexual-sympathizers.

If that's the attitude you have, then yes, good thing you're not RC indeed.
 

AveChriste11

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Charles Martel said:
pmpn8rGPT said:
Jetavan said:
More than 1,000 priests have signed a letter voicing alarm that same-sex marriage could threaten religious freedom in a way last seen during “centuries of persecution” of Roman Catholics in England.

In one of the biggest joint letters of its type ever written, they raise fears that their freedom to practise and speak about their faith will be “severely” limited and dismiss Government reassurances as "meaningless".

They even liken David Cameron’s moves to redefine marriage to those of Henry VIII, whose efforts to secure a divorce from Katherine of Aragon triggered centuries of bloody upheaval between church and state.

They claim that, taken in combination with equalities laws and other legal restraints, the Coalition's plans will prevent Catholics and other Christians who work in schools, charities and other public bodies speaking freely about their beliefs on the meaning of marriage.
Disgusting how religious leaders care about legislation

Even more so how uncharitable these statements are

We should love and pray for the sinners, if gay marriage is somehow a cause for Christian persecution then it is our own fault for not showing love and compassion
and doing what we can to make them want to seek repentance from their promiscuous and homosexual behavior

Good thing we're not RCs
What? Not to call sin and error for what it is? And how is that some way considered "compassion?

What in God's holy name is wrong with "christians" today, especially on the Internet?

I swear half the Christian Internet is choke full of homosexuals or homosexual-sympathizers.

If that's the attitude you have, then yes, good thing you're not RC indeed.
The internet never fails to be a source of entertainment.   I think I came from a very different planet...  :laugh:
 

biro

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Charles Martel said:
pmpn8rGPT said:
Jetavan said:
More than 1,000 priests have signed a letter voicing alarm that same-sex marriage could threaten religious freedom in a way last seen during “centuries of persecution” of Roman Catholics in England.

In one of the biggest joint letters of its type ever written, they raise fears that their freedom to practise and speak about their faith will be “severely” limited and dismiss Government reassurances as "meaningless".

They even liken David Cameron’s moves to redefine marriage to those of Henry VIII, whose efforts to secure a divorce from Katherine of Aragon triggered centuries of bloody upheaval between church and state.

They claim that, taken in combination with equalities laws and other legal restraints, the Coalition's plans will prevent Catholics and other Christians who work in schools, charities and other public bodies speaking freely about their beliefs on the meaning of marriage.
Disgusting how religious leaders care about legislation

Even more so how uncharitable these statements are

We should love and pray for the sinners, if gay marriage is somehow a cause for Christian persecution then it is our own fault for not showing love and compassion
and doing what we can to make them want to seek repentance from their promiscuous and homosexual behavior

Good thing we're not RCs
What? Not to call sin and error for what it is? And how is that some way considered "compassion?

What in God's holy name is wrong with "christians" today, especially on the Internet?

I swear half the Christian Internet is choke full of homosexuals or homosexual-sympathizers.

If that's the attitude you have, then yes, good thing you're not RC indeed.
Charles, what is your obsession?

And why do you talk like a maiden aunt who grew up in the 1930s?
 

Antonis

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biro said:
[quote author=88Devin12]
I sincerely hope that modern Judaism (the ones which are liberalizing) dies a terrible, and quick death. Same thing for all of "progressive" and liberal "Christianity".
Lots of modern Jews actually did die horrible deaths, not too long ago.

Do you think at all before you set fingers to keyboard?

If half of the people who post here are as angry in real life as they are on this board, we're all lost.

[/quote]That is clearly not what he meant at all. Nice try at guilting him though.
 

Nicene

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jmbejdl said:
Nicene said:
I wouldn't put it impossible any european government to force churches to marry gay couples some time in the future.
To my knowledge no Orthodox churches in Britain conduct legal marriages (certainly I was told that the Ecumenical Patriarchate priests here need to see a marriage certificate first) and the same is actually true back in Romania. You have to bring your civil wedding certificate to the the priest before he will marry you. As long as that's the case, I fail to see how any government could force the Orthodox Church to 'marry' people of the same sex. Unfortunately for those churches, such as the Anglicans, that do conduct legal as well as religious marriage, I suspect you may be correct.

James
That hte church would discriminate and not hold equal certain people may be thought of as unfair or violating the rights of people. I suspect this attitutude will only grow in europe, even here in New Zealand and I would not be surprised by it.
 

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Nicene said:
jmbejdl said:
Nicene said:
I wouldn't put it impossible any european government to force churches to marry gay couples some time in the future.
To my knowledge no Orthodox churches in Britain conduct legal marriages (certainly I was told that the Ecumenical Patriarchate priests here need to see a marriage certificate first) and the same is actually true back in Romania. You have to bring your civil wedding certificate to the the priest before he will marry you. As long as that's the case, I fail to see how any government could force the Orthodox Church to 'marry' people of the same sex. Unfortunately for those churches, such as the Anglicans, that do conduct legal as well as religious marriage, I suspect you may be correct.

James
That hte church would discriminate and not hold equal certain people may be thought of as unfair or violating the rights of people. I suspect this attitutude will only grow in europe, even here in New Zealand and I would not be surprised by it.
I don't doubt that people will think it so - a lot of them already do - but if the Church is not involved in anyway in the legal aspects of marriage and is not acting as a business (for some reason here the state seems to think that if you offer services for sale you have to offer them to everyone impartially), which it isn't, I fail to see how the government could ever force the Church to marry same sex couples. Private organisations are allowed to discriminate and set entry requirements whether they are secular or religious. If a Church offers legally binding marriages, then I think that, eventually, they will be compelled by the state to offer them to all. However, until such time as the state starts intervening in churches to force them to offer all their sacraments to all - something I can't see ever happening - then I'm sure Orthodox weddings will be free from interference. If they did start interfering in such a way they would definitely drive the Church underground and we'd surely be facing an age of persecution, but we'd have a lot more to worry about than the occasional request for a same sex marriage - being forced to offer the Eucharist generally to heterodox or non-Christians, for example.

James
 

Nephi

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jmbejdl said:
I don't doubt that people will think it so - a lot of them already do - but if the Church is not involved in anyway in the legal aspects of marriage and is not acting as a business (for some reason here the state seems to think that if you offer services for sale you have to offer them to everyone impartially), which it isn't, I fail to see how the government could ever force the Church to marry same sex couples. Private organisations are allowed to discriminate and set entry requirements whether they are secular or religious. If a Church offers legally binding marriages, then I think that, eventually, they will be compelled by the state to offer them to all. However, until such time as the state starts intervening in churches to force them to offer all their sacraments to all - something I can't see ever happening - then I'm sure Orthodox weddings will be free from interference. If they did start interfering in such a way they would definitely drive the Church underground and we'd surely be facing an age of persecution, but we'd have a lot more to worry about than the occasional request for a same sex marriage - being forced to offer the Eucharist generally to heterodox or non-Christians, for example.

James
I'm afraid that walling-off to the secular world will only work for so long, if we grant that culture at large turns down the road being talked about;

For example:
The decision gave only limited guidance about how courts should decide who counts as a minister, saying the court was “reluctant to adopt a rigid formula.” Two concurring opinions offered contrasting proposals.
[...]
In addition to ministers, priests, rabbis and other religious leaders, the decision appears to encompass, for instance, at least those teachers in religious schools with formal religious training who are charged with instructing students about religious matters.
[...]
Ms. Perich was a “called” teacher who had completed religious training and whom the school considered a minister. She was fired, the school said, for violating religious doctrine by pursuing litigation rather than trying to resolve her dispute within the church.
[...]
The administration had told the justices that their analysis of Ms. Perich’s case should be essentially the same whether she had been employed by a church, a labor union, a social club or any other group with free-association rights under the First Amendment.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/12/us/supreme-court-recognizes-religious-exception-to-job-discrimination-laws.html

While the SCOTUS shot the case down 9-0, it shows that there is at least the presence of a position (the Obama administration in this instance) interested in controlling internal elements of church life. If the SCOTUS had decided differently on the issue, even ministers would have been able to sue for "job discrimination."
 

Charles Martel

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biro said:
Charles Martel said:
pmpn8rGPT said:
Jetavan said:
More than 1,000 priests have signed a letter voicing alarm that same-sex marriage could threaten religious freedom in a way last seen during “centuries of persecution” of Roman Catholics in England.

In one of the biggest joint letters of its type ever written, they raise fears that their freedom to practise and speak about their faith will be “severely” limited and dismiss Government reassurances as "meaningless".

They even liken David Cameron’s moves to redefine marriage to those of Henry VIII, whose efforts to secure a divorce from Katherine of Aragon triggered centuries of bloody upheaval between church and state.

They claim that, taken in combination with equalities laws and other legal restraints, the Coalition's plans will prevent Catholics and other Christians who work in schools, charities and other public bodies speaking freely about their beliefs on the meaning of marriage.
Disgusting how religious leaders care about legislation

Even more so how uncharitable these statements are

We should love and pray for the sinners, if gay marriage is somehow a cause for Christian persecution then it is our own fault for not showing love and compassion
and doing what we can to make them want to seek repentance from their promiscuous and homosexual behavior

Good thing we're not RCs
What? Not to call sin and error for what it is? And how is that some way considered "compassion?
"
What in God's holy name is wrong with "christians" today, especially on the Internet?

I swear half the Christian Internet is choke full of homosexuals or homosexual-sympathizers.

If that's the attitude you have, then yes, good thing you're not RC indeed.
Charles, what is your obsession?

And why do you talk like a maiden aunt who grew up in the 1930s?
Seems the "obsession here is the constant attack on RC clergy for one reason or another when it comes to the homosexual platform especially on the issue of" same-sex" marriage (Which is a joke if I ever heard one).

I've never seen so much pro-homosexual babble on a christian forum, I can't believe that most Orthodox really believe this way.

And what, has the truth changed since the 1930's?
 

Nephi

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Charles Martel said:
I can't believe that most Orthodox really believe this way.
I'd say most don't.
 

JamesRottnek

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Charles Martel said:
biro said:
Charles Martel said:
pmpn8rGPT said:
Jetavan said:
More than 1,000 priests have signed a letter voicing alarm that same-sex marriage could threaten religious freedom in a way last seen during “centuries of persecution” of Roman Catholics in England.

In one of the biggest joint letters of its type ever written, they raise fears that their freedom to practise and speak about their faith will be “severely” limited and dismiss Government reassurances as "meaningless".

They even liken David Cameron’s moves to redefine marriage to those of Henry VIII, whose efforts to secure a divorce from Katherine of Aragon triggered centuries of bloody upheaval between church and state.

They claim that, taken in combination with equalities laws and other legal restraints, the Coalition's plans will prevent Catholics and other Christians who work in schools, charities and other public bodies speaking freely about their beliefs on the meaning of marriage.
Disgusting how religious leaders care about legislation

Even more so how uncharitable these statements are

We should love and pray for the sinners, if gay marriage is somehow a cause for Christian persecution then it is our own fault for not showing love and compassion
and doing what we can to make them want to seek repentance from their promiscuous and homosexual behavior

Good thing we're not RCs
What? Not to call sin and error for what it is? And how is that some way considered "compassion?
"
What in God's holy name is wrong with "christians" today, especially on the Internet?

I swear half the Christian Internet is choke full of homosexuals or homosexual-sympathizers.

If that's the attitude you have, then yes, good thing you're not RC indeed.
Charles, what is your obsession?

And why do you talk like a maiden aunt who grew up in the 1930s?
Seems the "obsession here is the constant attack on RC clergy for one reason or another when it comes to the homosexual platform especially on the issue of" same-sex" marriage (Which is a joke if I ever heard one).

I've never seen so much pro-homosexual babble on a christian forum, I can't believe that most Orthodox really believe this way.

And what, has the truth changed since the 1930's?
I can't believe you think this forum is particularly "pro-homosexual."
 

FatherHLL

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Nephi said:
Charles Martel said:
I can't believe that most Orthodox really believe this way.
I'd say most don't.
Correct.  One would be foolish to judge a whole religious body based on a single thread on a single forum. 
 
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