Gay marriage could signal return to ‘centuries of persecution’, say RCC priests

Charles Martel

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JamesRottnek said:
Charles Martel said:
Nephi said:
Charles Martel said:
Homosexual:ho·mo·sex·u·al/ˌhoʊ məˈsɛk ʃu əl or, esp. British, -ˈsɛks yu-/ Show Spelled [hoh-muh-sek-shoo-uh l or, esp. British, -seks-yoo-] Show IPA
adjective 
1. of, pertaining to, or exhibiting homosexuality.
2. of, pertaining to, or noting the same sex.
This is the problem definition. I think he's making the distinction between "homosexual (the person)" and "homosexual behavior/activities," which are very different meanings meant by "homosexual" in this context. So if one says "anti-homosexual" it could mean "anti-homosexual (the person)" or "anti-homosexual behavior/activities."
Let me ask you this.......would he make the same distinction between pedophile and pedophilia?
You do have a point, after all, in the words of Our Lord: By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you hate teh geyz.
What "Lord" might that be?

My God said to despise sin.
 

Charles Martel

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Michał Kalina said:
Charles Martel said:
Nephi said:
Charles Martel said:
Homosexual:ho·mo·sex·u·al/ˌhoʊ məˈsɛk ʃu əl or, esp. British, -ˈsɛks yu-/ Show Spelled [hoh-muh-sek-shoo-uh l or, esp. British, -seks-yoo-] Show IPA
adjective 
1. of, pertaining to, or exhibiting homosexuality.
2. of, pertaining to, or noting the same sex.
This is the problem definition. I think he's making the distinction between "homosexual (the person)" and "homosexual behavior/activities," which are very different meanings meant by "homosexual" in this context. So if one says "anti-homosexual" it could mean "anti-homosexual (the person)" or "anti-homosexual behavior/activities."
Let me ask you this.......would he make the same distinction between pedophile and pedophilia?
One is activity and one is a person.
Can you separate one from the other?

If I murder someone am I not a murderer?

If I fornicate with someone am I not a fornicator?

If I blaspheme the name of God am I not a blasphemer?

You can not do one thing and say you have nothing to do with it.
 

JamesRottnek

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Charles Martel said:
Michał Kalina said:
Charles Martel said:
Nephi said:
Charles Martel said:
Homosexual:ho·mo·sex·u·al/ˌhoʊ məˈsɛk ʃu əl or, esp. British, -ˈsɛks yu-/ Show Spelled [hoh-muh-sek-shoo-uh l or, esp. British, -seks-yoo-] Show IPA
adjective 
1. of, pertaining to, or exhibiting homosexuality.
2. of, pertaining to, or noting the same sex.
This is the problem definition. I think he's making the distinction between "homosexual (the person)" and "homosexual behavior/activities," which are very different meanings meant by "homosexual" in this context. So if one says "anti-homosexual" it could mean "anti-homosexual (the person)" or "anti-homosexual behavior/activities."
Let me ask you this.......would he make the same distinction between pedophile and pedophilia?
One is activity and one is a person.
Can you separate one from the other?

If I murder someone am I not a murderer?

If I fornicate with someone am I not a fornicator?

If I blaspheme the name of God am I not a blasphemer?

You can not do one thing and say you have nothing to do with it.
So you hate all men, yes?
 

Charles Martel

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JamesRottnek said:
Charles Martel said:
Michał Kalina said:
Charles Martel said:
Nephi said:
Charles Martel said:
Homosexual:ho·mo·sex·u·al/ˌhoʊ məˈsɛk ʃu əl or, esp. British, -ˈsɛks yu-/ Show Spelled [hoh-muh-sek-shoo-uh l or, esp. British, -seks-yoo-] Show IPA
adjective 
1. of, pertaining to, or exhibiting homosexuality.
2. of, pertaining to, or noting the same sex.
This is the problem definition. I think he's making the distinction between "homosexual (the person)" and "homosexual behavior/activities," which are very different meanings meant by "homosexual" in this context. So if one says "anti-homosexual" it could mean "anti-homosexual (the person)" or "anti-homosexual behavior/activities."
Let me ask you this.......would he make the same distinction between pedophile and pedophilia?
One is activity and one is a person.
Can you separate one from the other?

If I murder someone am I not a murderer?

If I fornicate with someone am I not a fornicator?

If I blaspheme the name of God am I not a blasphemer?

You can not do one thing and say you have nothing to do with it.
So you hate all men, yes?
I see you hate me James.

Is there anyway you can stick to a topic without calling someone a "hater"?

Are we projecting again?
 

Kerdy

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Nephi said:
Charles Martel said:
Homosexual:ho·mo·sex·u·al/ˌhoʊ məˈsɛk ʃu əl or, esp. British, -ˈsɛks yu-/ Show Spelled [hoh-muh-sek-shoo-uh l or, esp. British, -seks-yoo-] Show IPA
adjective  
1. of, pertaining to, or exhibiting homosexuality.
2. of, pertaining to, or noting the same sex.
This is the problem definition. I think he's making the distinction between "homosexual (the person)" and "homosexual behavior/activities," which are very different meanings meant by "homosexual" in this context. So if one says "anti-homosexual" it could mean "anti-homosexual (the person)" or "anti-homosexual behavior/activities."
He most likely is; however, consistent with his traditional debating style, he confused what is being discussed with what he wants to discuss.  This then creates an environment of confusion in which only he knows what he is talking about and everyone else is “wrong”.    

I suggest, rather than do this, he uses an open mind and attempt to understand what people are saying.  This thread isn’t about homosexuals who control their desire to sin.  It’s about all of the others, the 99.9% of them and social acceptance resulting in the attacks we see increasing on churches.  In other words, he is avoiding the real topic and making his own arguments which have been made in other threads and are completely irrelevant to this thread.  Michal needs to stop for a moment and actually attempt to understand the argument before posting.  We are all guilty of not doing this from time to time, but there are some of us who do it regularly.

Hint:  Michal, this isn’t about individual, specific people who have deviant sexual desires (as most people alive do) and control themselves, it’s about the rest of it all.  Do you need a definition of “the rest” or do you get me?
 

Kerdy

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Charles Martel said:
Michał Kalina said:
Charles Martel said:
Nephi said:
Charles Martel said:
Homosexual:ho·mo·sex·u·al/ˌhoʊ məˈsɛk ʃu əl or, esp. British, -ˈsɛks yu-/ Show Spelled [hoh-muh-sek-shoo-uh l or, esp. British, -seks-yoo-] Show IPA
adjective  
1. of, pertaining to, or exhibiting homosexuality.
2. of, pertaining to, or noting the same sex.
This is the problem definition. I think he's making the distinction between "homosexual (the person)" and "homosexual behavior/activities," which are very different meanings meant by "homosexual" in this context. So if one says "anti-homosexual" it could mean "anti-homosexual (the person)" or "anti-homosexual behavior/activities."
Let me ask you this.......would he make the same distinction between pedophile and pedophilia?
One is activity and one is a person.
Can you separate one from the other?

If I murder someone am I not a murderer?

If I fornicate with someone am I not a fornicator?

If I blaspheme the name of God am I not a blasphemer?

You can not do one thing and say you have nothing to do with it.
Are you saying, if a person has a same sex attraction but NEVER acts on that attraction in a physical way, that person is not a homosexual?  But when that same person acts on the attraction in a physical way, that person then becomes, by definition, a homosexual?  Charles, you can’t say things like this.  It makes too much sense.
 

Kerdy

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JamesRottnek said:
Charles Martel said:
Michał Kalina said:
Charles Martel said:
Nephi said:
Charles Martel said:
Homosexual:ho·mo·sex·u·al/ˌhoʊ məˈsɛk ʃu əl or, esp. British, -ˈsɛks yu-/ Show Spelled [hoh-muh-sek-shoo-uh l or, esp. British, -seks-yoo-] Show IPA
adjective 
1. of, pertaining to, or exhibiting homosexuality.
2. of, pertaining to, or noting the same sex.
This is the problem definition. I think he's making the distinction between "homosexual (the person)" and "homosexual behavior/activities," which are very different meanings meant by "homosexual" in this context. So if one says "anti-homosexual" it could mean "anti-homosexual (the person)" or "anti-homosexual behavior/activities."
Let me ask you this.......would he make the same distinction between pedophile and pedophilia?
One is activity and one is a person.
Can you separate one from the other?

If I murder someone am I not a murderer?

If I fornicate with someone am I not a fornicator?

If I blaspheme the name of God am I not a blasphemer?

You can not do one thing and say you have nothing to do with it.
So you hate all men, yes?
Could you elaborate?  I am not clear how you came to this conclusion.
 

JamesRottnek

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Kerdy said:
JamesRottnek said:
Charles Martel said:
Michał Kalina said:
Charles Martel said:
Nephi said:
Charles Martel said:
Homosexual:ho·mo·sex·u·al/ˌhoʊ məˈsɛk ʃu əl or, esp. British, -ˈsɛks yu-/ Show Spelled [hoh-muh-sek-shoo-uh l or, esp. British, -seks-yoo-] Show IPA
adjective 
1. of, pertaining to, or exhibiting homosexuality.
2. of, pertaining to, or noting the same sex.
This is the problem definition. I think he's making the distinction between "homosexual (the person)" and "homosexual behavior/activities," which are very different meanings meant by "homosexual" in this context. So if one says "anti-homosexual" it could mean "anti-homosexual (the person)" or "anti-homosexual behavior/activities."
Let me ask you this.......would he make the same distinction between pedophile and pedophilia?
One is activity and one is a person.
Can you separate one from the other?

If I murder someone am I not a murderer?

If I fornicate with someone am I not a fornicator?

If I blaspheme the name of God am I not a blasphemer?

You can not do one thing and say you have nothing to do with it.
So you hate all men, yes?
Could you elaborate?  I am not clear how you came to this conclusion.
Romans 12:9, "Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good."  Is sin evil?  If it is, then Martel says we are to hate all men.
 

Kerdy

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Nephi said:
Charles Martel said:
Homosexual:ho·mo·sex·u·al/ˌhoʊ məˈsɛk ʃu əl or, esp. British, -ˈsɛks yu-/ Show Spelled [hoh-muh-sek-shoo-uh l or, esp. British, -seks-yoo-] Show IPA
adjective 
1. of, pertaining to, or exhibiting homosexuality.
2. of, pertaining to, or noting the same sex.
This is the problem definition. I think he's making the distinction between "homosexual (the person)" and "homosexual behavior/activities," which are very different meanings meant by "homosexual" in this context. So if one says "anti-homosexual" it could mean "anti-homosexual (the person)" or "anti-homosexual behavior/activities."
This carries us back into the realm of “words no longer have meaning”.  When a word can mean anything, it means nothing.  In this instance, a person is not a homosexual until that person engages in homosexual activity.  Let me provide a couple of examples to explain.

If I find a woman other than my wife sexually appealing, does this automatically make me an adulterer?  What if I find several women this way, am I an adulterer?  No, not until I entertain these thoughts resulting in an overt action on my part. 

What if I think someone is so bad the world would benefit if that person was killed off?  Does that make me a murderer?  No, not until I entertain this thought resulting in an overt action on my part. 

So, if someone finds the same gender sexually appealing, does that make the person a homosexual?  No, not until that person entertains those thoughts resulting in an overt action on their part.

Now, if a person has engaged in homosexual acts, by definition, that person is a homosexual and is wrong…in the same manner as if I were to have an adulterous affair on my wife or murder someone in cold blood. 

Homosexuality does not get its own rules and definitions due to political correctness.  It is still restricted by the same standards as everything else in the world.

Life is not as complicated as people pretend.
 

Kerdy

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JamesRottnek said:
Kerdy said:
JamesRottnek said:
Charles Martel said:
Michał Kalina said:
Charles Martel said:
Nephi said:
Charles Martel said:
Homosexual:ho·mo·sex·u·al/ˌhoʊ məˈsɛk ʃu əl or, esp. British, -ˈsɛks yu-/ Show Spelled [hoh-muh-sek-shoo-uh l or, esp. British, -seks-yoo-] Show IPA
adjective 
1. of, pertaining to, or exhibiting homosexuality.
2. of, pertaining to, or noting the same sex.
This is the problem definition. I think he's making the distinction between "homosexual (the person)" and "homosexual behavior/activities," which are very different meanings meant by "homosexual" in this context. So if one says "anti-homosexual" it could mean "anti-homosexual (the person)" or "anti-homosexual behavior/activities."
Let me ask you this.......would he make the same distinction between pedophile and pedophilia?
One is activity and one is a person.
Can you separate one from the other?

If I murder someone am I not a murderer?

If I fornicate with someone am I not a fornicator?

If I blaspheme the name of God am I not a blasphemer?

You can not do one thing and say you have nothing to do with it.
So you hate all men, yes?
Could you elaborate?  I am not clear how you came to this conclusion.
Romans 12:9, "Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good."  Is sin evil?  If it is, then Martel says we are to hate all men.
I don't follow.  Maybe he is saying we are to hate all sin.
 

Kerdy

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Michał Kalina said:
Charles Martel said:
Nephi said:
Charles Martel said:
Homosexual:ho·mo·sex·u·al/ˌhoʊ məˈsɛk ʃu əl or, esp. British, -ˈsɛks yu-/ Show Spelled [hoh-muh-sek-shoo-uh l or, esp. British, -seks-yoo-] Show IPA
adjective 
1. of, pertaining to, or exhibiting homosexuality.
2. of, pertaining to, or noting the same sex.
This is the problem definition. I think he's making the distinction between "homosexual (the person)" and "homosexual behavior/activities," which are very different meanings meant by "homosexual" in this context. So if one says "anti-homosexual" it could mean "anti-homosexual (the person)" or "anti-homosexual behavior/activities."
Let me ask you this.......would he make the same distinction between pedophile and pedophilia?
One is activity and one is a person.
Let me ensure I understand you correctly.  As long as a person does not engage in homosexual activity they are ok, but if they do they are wrong.  Yes?  If so, it’s the same thing everyone else is saying.
 

JamesRottnek

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Kerdy said:
JamesRottnek said:
Kerdy said:
JamesRottnek said:
Charles Martel said:
Michał Kalina said:
Charles Martel said:
Nephi said:
Charles Martel said:
Homosexual:ho·mo·sex·u·al/ˌhoʊ məˈsɛk ʃu əl or, esp. British, -ˈsɛks yu-/ Show Spelled [hoh-muh-sek-shoo-uh l or, esp. British, -seks-yoo-] Show IPA
adjective 
1. of, pertaining to, or exhibiting homosexuality.
2. of, pertaining to, or noting the same sex.
This is the problem definition. I think he's making the distinction between "homosexual (the person)" and "homosexual behavior/activities," which are very different meanings meant by "homosexual" in this context. So if one says "anti-homosexual" it could mean "anti-homosexual (the person)" or "anti-homosexual behavior/activities."
Let me ask you this.......would he make the same distinction between pedophile and pedophilia?
One is activity and one is a person.
Can you separate one from the other?

If I murder someone am I not a murderer?

If I fornicate with someone am I not a fornicator?

If I blaspheme the name of God am I not a blasphemer?

You can not do one thing and say you have nothing to do with it.
So you hate all men, yes?
Could you elaborate?  I am not clear how you came to this conclusion.
Romans 12:9, "Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good."  Is sin evil?  If it is, then Martel says we are to hate all men.
I don't follow.  Maybe he is saying we are to hate all sin.
""One is activity and one is a person."  Can you separate one from another?"
 

Kerdy

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JamesRottnek said:
Kerdy said:
JamesRottnek said:
Kerdy said:
JamesRottnek said:
Charles Martel said:
Michał Kalina said:
Charles Martel said:
Nephi said:
Charles Martel said:
Homosexual:ho·mo·sex·u·al/ˌhoʊ məˈsɛk ʃu əl or, esp. British, -ˈsɛks yu-/ Show Spelled [hoh-muh-sek-shoo-uh l or, esp. British, -seks-yoo-] Show IPA
adjective 
1. of, pertaining to, or exhibiting homosexuality.
2. of, pertaining to, or noting the same sex.
This is the problem definition. I think he's making the distinction between "homosexual (the person)" and "homosexual behavior/activities," which are very different meanings meant by "homosexual" in this context. So if one says "anti-homosexual" it could mean "anti-homosexual (the person)" or "anti-homosexual behavior/activities."
Let me ask you this.......would he make the same distinction between pedophile and pedophilia?
One is activity and one is a person.
Can you separate one from the other?

If I murder someone am I not a murderer?

If I fornicate with someone am I not a fornicator?

If I blaspheme the name of God am I not a blasphemer?

You can not do one thing and say you have nothing to do with it.
So you hate all men, yes?
Could you elaborate?  I am not clear how you came to this conclusion.
Romans 12:9, "Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good."  Is sin evil?  If it is, then Martel says we are to hate all men.
I don't follow.  Maybe he is saying we are to hate all sin.
""One is activity and one is a person."  Can you separate one from another?"
I already did. ???
 

choy

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Funny how in the US it is MLK Day and half of the conversations I watch on TV about it talk about "Gay Rights".  I think it is only a matter of time before we win the debate on abortion, but this is one thing that we will lose and at some point the Catholic and Orthodox Churches will be considered "hate organizations".
 

choy

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Kerdy said:
If I find a woman other than my wife sexually appealing, does this automatically make me an adulterer?  What if I find several women this way, am I an adulterer?  No, not until I entertain these thoughts resulting in an overt action on my part. 
Actually, yes.

Matthew 5:27-28
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
 

Kerdy

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choy said:
Kerdy said:
If I find a woman other than my wife sexually appealing, does this automatically make me an adulterer?  What if I find several women this way, am I an adulterer?  No, not until I entertain these thoughts resulting in an overt action on my part.
Actually, yes.

Matthew 5:27-28
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Notice I expounded by saying "entertain these thoughts" rather than simply leaving it to them existing.  There is a difference between sinful thoughts popping up and us focusing on those thoughts.  If a person centers on those thoughts, I would agree with you completely.

KJV says it better, I think:
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Taking notice and lusting after are different.
 

mike

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Kerdy said:
Nephi said:
Charles Martel said:
Homosexual:ho·mo·sex·u·al/ˌhoʊ məˈsɛk ʃu əl or, esp. British, -ˈsɛks yu-/ Show Spelled [hoh-muh-sek-shoo-uh l or, esp. British, -seks-yoo-] Show IPA
adjective 
1. of, pertaining to, or exhibiting homosexuality.
2. of, pertaining to, or noting the same sex.
This is the problem definition. I think he's making the distinction between "homosexual (the person)" and "homosexual behavior/activities," which are very different meanings meant by "homosexual" in this context. So if one says "anti-homosexual" it could mean "anti-homosexual (the person)" or "anti-homosexual behavior/activities."
He most likely is; however, consistent with his traditional debating style, he confused what is being discussed with what he wants to discuss.  This then creates an environment of confusion in which only he knows what he is talking about and everyone else is “wrong”.   

I suggest, rather than do this, he uses an open mind and attempt to understand what people are saying.  This thread isn’t about homosexuals who control their desire to sin.  It’s about all of the others, the 99.9% of them and social acceptance resulting in the attacks we see increasing on churches.  In other words, he is avoiding the real topic and making his own arguments which have been made in other threads and are completely irrelevant to this thread.  Michal needs to stop for a moment and actually attempt to understand the argument before posting.  We are all guilty of not doing this from time to time, but there are some of us who do it regularly.

Hint:  Michal, this isn’t about individual, specific people who have deviant sexual desires (as most people alive do) and control themselves, it’s about the rest of it all.  Do you need a definition of “the rest” or do you get me?
Who has attacked "your Church"? How? Can you post some links to newsstories?
 

Kerdy

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Michał Kalina said:
Kerdy said:
Nephi said:
Charles Martel said:
Homosexual:ho·mo·sex·u·al/ˌhoʊ məˈsɛk ʃu əl or, esp. British, -ˈsɛks yu-/ Show Spelled [hoh-muh-sek-shoo-uh l or, esp. British, -seks-yoo-] Show IPA
adjective  
1. of, pertaining to, or exhibiting homosexuality.
2. of, pertaining to, or noting the same sex.
This is the problem definition. I think he's making the distinction between "homosexual (the person)" and "homosexual behavior/activities," which are very different meanings meant by "homosexual" in this context. So if one says "anti-homosexual" it could mean "anti-homosexual (the person)" or "anti-homosexual behavior/activities."
He most likely is; however, consistent with his traditional debating style, he confused what is being discussed with what he wants to discuss.  This then creates an environment of confusion in which only he knows what he is talking about and everyone else is “wrong”.    

I suggest, rather than do this, he uses an open mind and attempt to understand what people are saying.  This thread isn’t about homosexuals who control their desire to sin.  It’s about all of the others, the 99.9% of them and social acceptance resulting in the attacks we see increasing on churches.  In other words, he is avoiding the real topic and making his own arguments which have been made in other threads and are completely irrelevant to this thread.  Michal needs to stop for a moment and actually attempt to understand the argument before posting.  We are all guilty of not doing this from time to time, but there are some of us who do it regularly.

Hint:  Michal, this isn’t about individual, specific people who have deviant sexual desires (as most people alive do) and control themselves, it’s about the rest of it all.  Do you need a definition of “the rest” or do you get me?
Who has attacked "your Church"? How? Can you post some links to newsstories?
Do you ever watch television?

...and thanks for showing what I said was accurate.
 

mike

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Kerdy said:
Michał Kalina said:
Kerdy said:
Nephi said:
Charles Martel said:
Homosexual:ho·mo·sex·u·al/ˌhoʊ məˈsɛk ʃu əl or, esp. British, -ˈsɛks yu-/ Show Spelled [hoh-muh-sek-shoo-uh l or, esp. British, -seks-yoo-] Show IPA
adjective 
1. of, pertaining to, or exhibiting homosexuality.
2. of, pertaining to, or noting the same sex.
This is the problem definition. I think he's making the distinction between "homosexual (the person)" and "homosexual behavior/activities," which are very different meanings meant by "homosexual" in this context. So if one says "anti-homosexual" it could mean "anti-homosexual (the person)" or "anti-homosexual behavior/activities."
He most likely is; however, consistent with his traditional debating style, he confused what is being discussed with what he wants to discuss.  This then creates an environment of confusion in which only he knows what he is talking about and everyone else is “wrong”.   

I suggest, rather than do this, he uses an open mind and attempt to understand what people are saying.  This thread isn’t about homosexuals who control their desire to sin.  It’s about all of the others, the 99.9% of them and social acceptance resulting in the attacks we see increasing on churches.  In other words, he is avoiding the real topic and making his own arguments which have been made in other threads and are completely irrelevant to this thread.  Michal needs to stop for a moment and actually attempt to understand the argument before posting.  We are all guilty of not doing this from time to time, but there are some of us who do it regularly.

Hint:  Michal, this isn’t about individual, specific people who have deviant sexual desires (as most people alive do) and control themselves, it’s about the rest of it all.  Do you need a definition of “the rest” or do you get me?
Who has attacked "your Church"? How? Can you post some links to newsstories?
Do you ever watch television?
Never heard of any Orthodox Church being "attacked" by gays.
 
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