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GOARCH and Vaccines

Irish45

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Dude, those pills were a way for Jared too funnel money into his back account.
I don't know if you read that Merck is manufacturing a pill that you can take after you get covid. It will keep you out of the morgue.
If you ask me. All this pill popping is nothing more than the modern day snake oil salesman looking to capitalize on the natural earths cleansing agent.
Snake oil? How many snake oil salesmen agree to give away the snake oil for free? The manufacturer of Hydroxychloroquine agreed to give away over 100 million doses for free in March 2020. Some of these anti virals are over 50 years old. If they had given out the 100 million doses for free and it worked, then the FDA would not have been authorized to give Emergency use authorization for the vaccines. Unfortunately the media freaked out about these antivitals and now you have to fight pharmacies to dispense the medicine that was legally prescribed by a medical doctor. They don’t care about you’re doctors credentials, they are just following corporate’s orders.

You trust the vax, and that’s fine, but for me? I’ll be looking for anti virals if my natural immunity ever drops off.

 
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Irish45

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One of the fundamental principles of obedience is that if you happen to sin by doing an act commanded under obedience, and if sin can only be "punished" once, then that burden falls on the one giving obedience, not the one under obedience. (The desert fathers carve out few exceptions: major obvious sin, and heresy.) So the claim isn't infallibility, but rather "If your bishop says to get vaccinated, and if you do so out of obedience, and if getting vaccinated is sinful, then you won't be held accountable for that sin."
Thanks for the clarification Father, the line was more of a joke. I appreciate your respons. I have a hypothetical to help me understand how far the obedience goes in the EOC.

What happens if the EP agrees to unit with Rome, but concededs on infallibility or the Filioque or any order non negotiable issue for EO? Would an EO person be required to be obedient in that case?
 

Arachne

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Here’s what’s wrong with the Harvard study, they’re basing the data off the VAERS system.
No, they're not. They're linking to the AAP report, which states that about 1/3 of the reports to VAERS have not even been verified, and goes on to list the benefits of getting vaccinated, again massively outweighing the risks.

This article doesn’t even link to the data. Real scientific :rolleyes:, how about some source documents next time.
Sure it does - it's just been added to their paid material since the publication. Here you go:


And all you could find to counter was... a muckraking politician? LOL, all fur coat and no knickers.
 

Ainnir

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Has any suspended Pfizer's?
 

Irish45

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QUOTE="Arachne, post: 1624761, member: 7720"]
No, they're not. They're linking to the AAP report, which states that about 1/3 of the reports to VAERS have not even been verified, and goes on to list the benefits of getting vaccinated, again massively outweighing the risks.



Sure it does - it's just been added to their paid material since the publication. Here you go:


And all you could find to counter was... a muckraking politician? LOL, all fur coat and no knickers.
[/QUOTE]

If you say so.
 

Irish45

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Has any suspended Pfizer's?
Not yet, but it’s only been like 9 months. If you feel comfortable taking it then by all means. I definitely don’t and it won’t go near my kids either.

Maybe you trust a drug company that pays the facility at Harvard and takes pictures to document med students who protest against them, but I don’t.
 
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Irish45

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No, they're not. They're linking to the AAP report, which states that about 1/3 of the reports to VAERS have not even been verified, and goes on to list the benefits of getting vaccinated, again massively outweighing the risks.
yes and the APP used VAERS. When researching, it’s best to chase the footnotes to the end.
715E2F42-9A83-4016-BEDB-0BEB90528AE3.jpeg


On a side note, the article you shared specifically says not to follow the advice against your own doctor. That’s so they won’t be liable for the information they are sharing. That way they can’t be sued if your kid develops a inflammed heart after following the advice of the article. Harvard isn’t even willing to stand behind their own article.
4D818B6F-950F-4BA7-94D8-01A268FB4F37.png
 

Arachne

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yes and the APP used VAERS. When researching, it’s best to chase the footnotes to the end.
The AAP worked with the VAERS reports that have been verified (by hospital admissions), and cautioned against going for their raw data. Is your reading comprehension that poor, or are you trying to gaslight us that we didn't read what we actually did read?

On a side note, the article you shared specifically says not to follow the advice against your own doctor. That’s so they won’t be liable for the information they are sharing. That way they can’t be sued if your kid develops a inflammed heart after following the advice of the article. Harvard isn’t even willing to stand behind their own article.
One doesn't have to be Harvard Medical to have the sense to tell you that your own doctor's advice comes first, because they're the one who know the details of your health record. Which works the other way around too - if your doctor tells you to get vaccinated, you should do so.
 

Irish45

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The AAP worked with the VAERS reports that have been verified (by hospital admissions), and cautioned against going for their raw data. Is your reading comprehension that poor, or are you trying to gaslight us that we didn't read what we actually did read?



One doesn't have to be Harvard Medical to have the sense to tell you that your own doctor's advice comes first, because they're the one who know the details of your health record. Which works the other way around too - if your doctor tells you to get vaccinated, you should do so.
not gaslighting here, my previous post cover what you’re asking. You’re the self proclaimed science expert that isn’t chasing footnotes to the end.
 

Irish45

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One doesn't have to be Harvard Medical to have the sense will tell you that your own doctor's advice comes first, because they're the one who know the details of your health record. Which works the other way around too - if your doctor tells you to get vaccinated, you should do so.
Unfortunately many people here in America did follow their doctors advice and ended up dead from opioid addiction. Most doctors in America are lobbied to directly by the pharmaceutical industry.
 

Arachne

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not gaslighting here, my previous post cover what you’re asking. You’re the self proclaimed science expert that isn’t chasing footnotes to the end.
I'm not a science expert (just married to one), that's why I rely on those who are, as opposed to those who aren't.

Unfortunately many people here in America did follow their doctors advice and ended up dead from opioid addiction. Most doctors in America are lobbied to directly by the pharmaceutical industry.
America is not the only country.
 

Irish45

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I'm not a science expert (just married to one), that's why I rely on those who are, as opposed to those who aren't.
lol was that supposed to lend credibility to your arguments?


America is not the only country.
I know that, and I know you’re not from America, which is why I was specific. That’s why I posted the Boston.com article. I didn’t think that sort of story made it across the pond, but even if it did, it probably wasn’t a big story like it was here.
Let’s revisit this in a year when we have more data. I’ll be thrilled if I’m wrong.
 

Arachne

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lol was that supposed to lend credibility to your arguments?
They are not my arguments, just work by people who know what they're talking about.
 

Fr. George

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Delusion. At the entrance to the church, take off hat, but not head.
It's not an argument on the medical necessity, but on sin - and on that factor, you're way off base. If you are convinced that there is no medical necessity for the vaccine, fine, but if the question is about whether the vaccine is sinful or not, then the Church's tradition on obedience comes into play.
 

Fr. George

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What happens if the EP agrees to unit with Rome, but concededs on infallibility or the Filioque or any order non negotiable issue for EO? Would an EO person be required to be obedient in that case?
A line is drawn at heresy, which is a pretty consistent principle among the fathers (desert and hierarchical ones alike). Such a union or concession, if not done in a conciliar fashion (i.e. consensus within the Orthodox communion), would certainly beg for a rejection by the faithful.
 

Irish45

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They are not my arguments, just work by people who know what they're talking about.
lol ok, is that why they used VAERS number as a concrete number without mentioning it’s likely only fraction of real cases?

It must be nice to have the authority to decide for other people which doctors medical opinions are valid. Again, I point to the very real conflict of interest with Harvard and Pfizer. If you’re cool with that cozy relationship then good for you. It doesn’t mean you have to belittle other people for off their own research. You’re being gaslit by the media to behave that way.

Since we are swinging around spouses credentials, I was married to a journalist for 10 years. Yes editors squash important stories on the regular. They are particularly good at protecting their advertisers reputation.

Like I said, let’s revisit it in a year.
 

Irish45

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A line is drawn at heresy, which is a pretty consistent principle among the fathers (desert and hierarchical ones alike). Such a union or concession, if not done in a conciliar fashion (i.e. consensus within the Orthodox communion), would certainly beg for a rejection by the faithful.
That’s what figured, but I wanted to make sure I was fully understanding you. Thanks for the clarification Father. Please say a pray for me and my Children.
 

Tzimis

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Jared? The only Jared I know of is Mahalaleel's first born son. He lived quite a long time but I'm pretty sure he's also long dead. Who/what are you talking about? Dude.

And yes, I'm aware of Merck's new anti-viral. If it really works it could be a real game changer. Hopefully it doesn't have a big adverse reaction profile and doesn't cost thousands of dollars per dose.

In the meantime, did you read any of the material from the FLCCC?

Oh, and by the way, nothing will keep you "out of the morgue".
Jared Kushner, the president's son in law. He was in control of all the funds allocated through the defense production act.
If Trump believed in Hydroxychloroquine so much. Why did he seek out regeneron monoclonal antibody when he got covid?
 

Fr. George

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That’s what figured, but I wanted to make sure I was fully understanding you. Thanks for the clarification Father. Please say a pray for me and my Children.
Of course! And please pray for me and mine. I think one of the most valuable contributions of the forum is - when it's operating at its best - it allows for reasonable dialogue. Lots of Orthodox people bring up St. Mark of Ephesus when they want to slam on the Roman church, but forget that he was incredibly polite (using official honorifics, etc.) when addressing his concerns to the "opposing side" in Florence.
 

Irish45

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Agreed! I’ve had my account since 2010, plus I was a lurker for years before I created an account here. This forum is unique in a special way. I’ve learned and grown from so much here, even outside of Christianity. I always try to pray for every priest(and their families if they aren’t Latin rite or from the monastic life) I come across. Thanks for the work you do here. I’ve spent countless hours reading these forms over the years, much more so than I’ve posted.

Of course! And please pray for me and mine. I think one of the most valuable contributions of the forum is - when it's operating at its best - it allows for reasonable dialogue. Lots of Orthodox people bring up St. Mark of Ephesus when they want to slam on the Roman church, but forget that he was incredibly polite (using official honorifics, etc.) when addressing his concerns to the "opposing side" in Florence.
 

J Michael

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Jared Kushner, the president's son in law. He was in control of all the funds allocated through the defense production act.
If Trump believed in Hydroxychloroquine so much. Why did he seek out regeneron monoclonal antibody when he got covid?
I'm not really sure what you're getting at. What does Kushner have to do with ivermectin, or hydroxy, or any of the others being valid and useful prophylactics and (especially early) treatments for Covid? What does he or Trump have to do with the development of Covid treatment protocols? Why did Trump seek out Regeneron? You'd have to ask him, or more specifically, his doctors.

Did you bother to read any of the material on the covid19criticalcare.com site?
 

Arachne

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lol ok, is that why they used VAERS number as a concrete number without mentioning it’s likely only fraction of real cases?
In total, 1,226 cases of myocarditis or pericarditis have been reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) after administration of about 300 million doses of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna. However, not all of them have been verified.

The cases have been seen predominantly in male adolescents and young adults. They occur more after the second dose than the first and typically appear within a week of vaccination, according to Tom Shimabukuro, M.D., M.P.H., M.B.A., deputy director of the CDC’s Immunization Safety Office.

Of 484 reports in people under age 30, 323 have met CDC case definition and 148 are under review.
Which bit are you having trouble parsing?

Since we are swinging around spouses credentials, I was married to a journalist for 10 years. Yes editors squash important stories on the regular. They are particularly good at protecting their advertisers reputation.
That's cute. Still, having a virologist who used to work in vaccine development on call at all times is great help telling good sources from bad. I'm also aware it's a luxury most people don't have.
 

Irish45

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Which bit are you having trouble parsing?



That's cute. Still, having a virologist who used to work in vaccine development on call at all times is great help telling good sources from bad. I'm also aware it's a luxury most people don't have.
That’s supposed to impress me? I’m sure there’s robust open dialogue at the company he works at. It’s not like pharmaceutical companies are known for suppressing medical curiosity and scientific inquiry in their own ranks🙄. I’m sure his company is transparent and didn’t make him sign an NDA🙄. The last people I’d listen to are pharmaceutical insiders, but to each his own. The only time I’ll trust a pharmaceutical insider is when they are caught on hidden came speaking freely without regard for their NDA or the company they work for. I hope you’re right though.
 
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Arachne

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That’s supposed to impress me? I’m sure there’s robust open dialogue at the company he works at. It’s not like pharmaceutical companies are known for suppressing medical curiosity and scientific inquiry in their own ranks🙄. I’m sure his company is transparent and didn’t make him sign an NDA🙄. The last people I’d listen to are pharmaceutical insiders, but to each his own. I hope you’re right though.
ROFL, assuming much? He's in education, not pharma. Giving people correct information about science is vital in raising a general population that won't fall for charlatans and conspiracy theorists.

Glad to see your reading comprehension issue has been resolved, though.
 

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Which bit are you having trouble parsing?



That's cute. Still, having a virologist who used to work in vaccine development on call at all times is great help telling good sources from bad. I'm also aware it's a luxury most people don't have.
You’re confusing two separate things.

VAERS data is unverified because it’s voluntary to report and they don’t usually send people out to verify but data. . That’s not what I was referring to.


I’m referring to the fact that VAERS data is known to be under reported(since submissions are voluntary). Everyone agrees that VAERS numbers are likely higher than reported in VAERS, it mentions that fact on the site(I linked the specific page a few posts back in the thread). They use that 1200 number without mentioned there number is likely a fraction of real cases. It leaves the impression that because it’s only 1200, you’re more at risk from actually COVID. But like I said, the 1200 is likely less than the real number. It’s unethical reporting to not mention the number is likely higher when trying to convince people to vaccinate their kids using that 1200 number. I hope this clears things up.
 

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ROFL, assuming much? He's in education, not pharma. Giving people correct information about science is vital in raising a general population that won't fall for charlatans and conspiracy theorists.

Glad to see your reading comprehension issue has been resolved, though.
lol whatever you say, you’re the one trying to give credibility to your own arguments via your spouse. It reminds me of the military when an officer’s spouse thinks they have the same rank as their spouse to the point that they belittle lower ranking folks for not showing enough respect, even though they have no authority over them. Thousands of medical doctors disagree with your husband. Science is about questions and it should never be considered settled.

Like I said, let’s address this again in a year. I have a feeling you’ll feel differently.

I hope you enjoy your weekend.
 

Irish45

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I had the Moderna shots late March and late April and am still alive and kicking.
Congratulations, you’re one of there lucky ones so far. Not so much for the men under 30 who have heart conditions for the rest of their life because they trusted pharmaceutical lobbying.
 

Arachne

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lol whatever you say, you’re the one trying to give credibility to your own arguments via your spouse. It reminds me of the military when an officer’s spouse thinks they have the same rank as their spouse to the point that they belittle lower ranking folks for not showing enough respect, even though they have no authority over them. Thousands of medical doctors disagree with your husband. Science is about questions and it should never be considered settled.
So I can count on you not to say 'in my opinion' again in any of your posts?
 

Arachne

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I had the Moderna shots late March and late April and am still alive and kicking.
My mother did too, in February and March. Despite being 75 and with a host of problems, she didn't even have any side effects. We've been playing family bingo here. So far, 7 people, 3 vaccines, and the worst was a bit of swelling and a day or two of tiredness. Waiting on the young one to get jabbed too (he will be Pfizer), so we can complete the card.
 

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Not yet, but it’s only been like 9 months. If you feel comfortable taking it then by all means. I definitely don’t and it won’t go near my kids either.
That's certainly your choice. I was hesitant until the CEO of our local hospital wrote a letter to the editor begging people to get vaccinated and stay out of his hospital. We were at 128% capacity at one point, and 97% of COVID patients were unvaccinated, many way below the risk threshold of 65 years. We've lost middle aged people who did not have secondary health issues, one 5 years younger than me. We almost lost a local councilman who was anti-vax until he ended up in the hospital for several weeks. Now he's begging people to get vaccinated. So once that hit, yes, I and my two older kids were vaccinated, fully understanding this is just to blunt the edge if an infection. I'm fine with just getting sick and building natural immunity, but I need to not die in order to do that. (y)
 

Arachne

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That's certainly your choice. I was hesitant until the CEO of our local hospital wrote a letter to the editor begging people to get vaccinated and stay out of his hospital. We were at 128% capacity at one point, and 97% of COVID patients were unvaccinated, many way below the risk threshold of 65 years. We've lost middle aged people who did not have secondary health issues, one 5 years younger than me. We almost lost a local councilman who was anti-vax until he ended up in the hospital for several weeks. Now he's begging people to get vaccinated. So once that hit, yes, I and my two older kids were vaccinated, fully understanding this is just to blunt the edge if an infection. I'm fine with just getting sick and building natural immunity, but I need to not die in order to do that. (y)
I never had doubts, but if I'd had any, they'd have been annihilated when a colleague, a fit and healthy 40-something (sheep farmer on top of his teaching gig) got infected for the second time, less than a year after his first, and has been out of work ever since, because he can't even manage a flight of stairs without being out of breath. There's zero guarantee that subsequent infections will be lighter than your first, and functional disability is not how I want to spend my life.
 

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That's certainly your choice. I was hesitant until the CEO of our local hospital wrote a letter to the editor begging people to get vaccinated and stay out of his hospital. We were at 128% capacity at one point, and 97% of COVID patients were unvaccinated, many way below the risk threshold of 65 years. We've lost middle aged people who did not have secondary health issues, one 5 years younger than me. We almost lost a local councilman who was anti-vax until he ended up in the hospital for several weeks. Now he's begging people to get vaccinated. So once that hit, yes, I and my two older kids were vaccinated, fully understanding this is just to blunt the edge if an infection. I'm fine with just getting sick and building natural immunity, but I need to not die in order to do that. (y)
That 97% number can be very deceptive because if somebody had both doses of the vaccine but they hadn’t reached the two-week threshold after the second dose, they’re not counted as vaccinated. So I don’t put a lot of stock in those numbers. Plus they don’t differentiate between which unvaccinated people had previous infections. I find the fact they leave that out to be a red flag and I find it deceptive. They also never mention if the unvaccinated have underlying conditions. Almost everyone time there American national media Shows an unvaccinated person in the hospital bed (who wishes they had the vaccine), they’re almost always morbidly obese. If you’re not obese you’re not really at risk of dying from Covid unless you’re old. I see absolutely no reason to get these vaccines, even if I didn’t have natural immunity. Partly because there are generic antivirals that I feel would work better. So obviously I don’t trust the numbers, but I’m happy that you feel safe now and got to get the vaccine that you wanted. I had covid and it was like a mild common cold where I lost my smell. My 90 year old aunt survived COVID. My brothers girlfriend in her late 30s suffers from “long covid”. She was vaccinated after having covid and now suffers from this mysterious fatigue illness that doctors are calling “long covid”. One of my aunts in her 50s got diagnosed with a heart condition a couple on months after the vaccine. Sure, maybe both are coincidences, but when I combine it with the fact they deceptively leave out important data “like prior infection” and the fact the media and corporate pharmacies are falling over themselves to prevent people from receiving antivirals, and you add the fact that countries are taking the Moderno version off the market, I think it’s wise to let this play out more before getting vaccinated. Plus, every country and area with high vax rates seems to be experiencing a worst year than last. Here in America, hospitable get paid me if a patient dies from covid, so I don’t always trust when they say someone died from covid, at least here in America. It’s long been known how corrupt our healthcare system is here in America, especially the bureaucracies in corporate hospitals. So when I see Pfizer tweet out that there are “teaming up” with the Daily Beast, I get suspicious. There’s no chance I’ll get it. In fact, I’ll leave the country before I get it, I’d rather be homeless then get this vaccine until there’s long term data.


Plus, like I explained above, the vaccines create the variants. The vaccines only last about six months so you’re going to perpetually need to get boosters every six months until they come up with a better technology.

I feel like it’s very shortsighted to trade off six months of immunity for deadly variants. I hope I’m wrong though, I’ll be thrilled if you’re all right tbh. I’m happy that you were free to make the best decision for your family. For my family, its no too vaccines.


PS. My dad also got the second moderna vaccine and then couldn’t walk a single city block without getting winded. Unfortunately he’s a loyal corporate media consumer and he doesn’t think the vaccine caused it, he thinks it’s his weight that caused him to be winded. I beg to differ, he was about the same weight the year before and he could walk nine holes of golf. You don’t lose that much wind in one year, but hey maybe I’m wrong 🤷‍♂️
 

Opus118

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Here’s Harvard discrediting the very VAERS system they used to make their arguments for vaccinating children.
You do realize that articles in this publication are written by undergraduates. This is one student, not Harvard.
 

Irish45

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You do realize that articles in this publication are written by undergraduates. This is one student, not Harvard.
Your point? Harvard doesn’t have control over what gets published? We both know they do. They knew what they were doing when they published that piece. Either way who cares, that link wasn’t really important in any way for my argument, I just found it funny that a Harvard paper published a piece discrediting the system that Harvard used to argue for vaccinating children. The point that I made about VAERS was still accurate.

Negative reactions to vaccines are notoriously under reported to VAERS. VAERS own website admits that. Harvard(the one written by by the MD) used that VAERS number(1200) without informing the reader that the number is likely higher. A higher number would completely blow up their arguments in that piece I find that to be highly unethical. They also don’t disclose if Harvard or their faculty are Receiving money from any of the vaccine producers. Usually in pieces like that you’re supposed to disclose any conflict of interest. Maybe at the end of the month when I have me time, I’ll dig into this more and looking into the author of the piece more thoroughly. Like the Boston.com article states, there are faculty at Harvard that are on the take from the pharmaceutical companies.
 

Arachne

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Great gosh a'mighty, I'm so glad Antioch said early on, 'This is not a spiritual issue, consult with your doctors', and shut down the nonsense.
 

Irish45

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Another reason I won’t take the vaccine until we have long term data: ADE. How many vaccine manufacturers even mention it? It’s worth knowing about. Especially since many highly vaccinated countries(like Singapore and Israel) are experiencing surges.


Link to the full study


A786FD6C-CDEA-4977-9850-8F8F7C90CEE1.png

82CE1B56-C74C-49A8-8848-0BDD00D9B408.jpeg


PS. I’m not saying this is happening, but it still could, there hasn’t been enough time to know for sure. I really hope it doesn’t happen.
 
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