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Great fear with meeting between Pope Francis and EP....

ZealousZeal

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SolEX01 said:
I wish my fears could be allayed; however, I think that reunion is inevitable....
Really? I could not disagree more.
 

Maria

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Mor Ephrem said:
Shlomlokh said:
The line GOARCH keeps pushing (on its Facebook page at least) is that this meeting has the full support of the other Patriarchates. Can someone show me where this is the case?
Have any of the other patriarchates publicly come out in opposition?
What is the position of the MP?

There is this opposition to the EP's first without equals statement:
http://www.patriarchate.org/news/releases/first-without-equals-lambriniadis
 

Mor Ephrem

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Alveus Lacuna said:
There's no way they will ever reunite.
I think this is going a little too far.  I think the OP's worries, if they are actually serious, are unfounded (as things are currently, there can be no union), but I don't think we can affirm the above as written without rejecting things we ought genuinely to support. 
 

Maria

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ialmisry said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Shlomlokh said:
The line GOARCH keeps pushing (on its Facebook page at least) is that this meeting has the full support of the other Patriarchates. Can someone show me where this is the case?
Have any of the other patriarchates publicly come out in opposition?
most importantly, has the Patriarchate of Jerusalem said anything?
Apparently, the new website set up by the EP says that the Patriarchate of Jerusalem is sponsoring this event, but does Patriarch Theophilos know this yet?

This from the EP website: http://www.apostolicpilgrimage.org/-/frequently-asked-questions-faq-?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apostolicpilgrimage.org%2Fhome%3Fp_p_id%3D101_INSTANCE_hRMgz5DFAcCi%26p_p_lifecycle%3D0%26p_p_state%3Dnormal%26p_p_mode%3Dview%26p_p_col_id%3Dcolumn-3%26p_p_col_count%3D1
Since the meeting between the Pope and the Ecumenical Patriarch is taking place in Jerusalem, Patriarch Theophilos III of Jerusalem will host and participate in the event. All Orthodox Patriarchs and Primates have formally been informed about and are fully supportive of the occasion.
 

ialmisry

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Maria said:
ialmisry said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Shlomlokh said:
The line GOARCH keeps pushing (on its Facebook page at least) is that this meeting has the full support of the other Patriarchates. Can someone show me where this is the case?
Have any of the other patriarchates publicly come out in opposition?
most importantly, has the Patriarchate of Jerusalem said anything?
Apparently, the new website set up by the EP says that the Patriarchate of Jerusalem is sponsoring this event, but does Patriarch Theophilos know this yet?

This from the EP website: http://www.apostolicpilgrimage.org/-/frequently-asked-questions-faq-?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apostolicpilgrimage.org%2Fhome%3Fp_p_id%3D101_INSTANCE_hRMgz5DFAcCi%26p_p_lifecycle%3D0%26p_p_state%3Dnormal%26p_p_mode%3Dview%26p_p_col_id%3Dcolumn-3%26p_p_col_count%3D1
Since the meeting between the Pope and the Ecumenical Patriarch is taking place in Jerusalem, Patriarch Theophilos III of Jerusalem will host and participate in the event. All Orthodox Patriarchs and Primates have formally been informed about and are fully supportive of the occasion.
Fully supportive would mean speaking up for it. I don't hear that.
 

Mor Ephrem

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Maria said:
This from the EP website: http://www.apostolicpilgrimage.org/-/frequently-asked-questions-faq-?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apostolicpilgrimage.org%2Fhome%3Fp_p_id%3D101_INSTANCE_hRMgz5DFAcCi%26p_p_lifecycle%3D0%26p_p_state%3Dnormal%26p_p_mode%3Dview%26p_p_col_id%3Dcolumn-3%26p_p_col_count%3D1
Since the meeting between the Pope and the Ecumenical Patriarch is taking place in Jerusalem, Patriarch Theophilos III of Jerusalem will host and participate in the event. All Orthodox Patriarchs and Primates have formally been informed about and are fully supportive of the occasion.
What an interesting website this is turning out to be:

Q. What is the role of the Ecumenical Patriarch among Orthodox Churches?

A. The Ecumenical Patriarch presides among all Orthodox Primates, as "first among equals." He  also serves as the focal point and spokesman for Orthodox Church unity, is the only Primate who can convene inter-Orthodox councils, and is responsible for initiating inter-Church and inter-religious dialogues.
Is that for real?  If the Pope of Alexandria wanted to call a council, he couldn't do so?  He'd have to ask the EP to do it?  And ISTM every autocephalous Church has its own inter-Church and inter-religious departments engaging in its own activities: are they all illegitimate except the EP's?  

Q. How many Orthodox Christians are there world-wide?

A. 300 million. Geographically, its primary area of distribution lies along the coast of the (northeast) Mediterranean, in Eastern and Northern Europe, as well as in the Middle East. According to the canonical tradition of the Church, the Ecumenical Patriarchate is responsible for the pastoral care of those Orthodox Christians residing in regions outside the ecclesiastical borders of local Orthodox Churches. Accordingly, the Ecumenical Patriarchate is responsible for Orthodox Christians in the America, Western Europe, Asia, and Australia.
What happened to Antioch?  

Q. Will other Orthodox Patriarchs also participate?

Inasmuch as this event is an historical celebration of a specific event and the Ecumenical Patriarch represents the wider Orthodox Church, the encounter will take place between Patriarch Bartholomew and Pope Francis alone.
ISTM if it was the historical celebration of a specific event, that alone would suffice as an explanation.  

Since the meeting between the Pope and the Ecumenical Patriarch is taking place in Jerusalem, Patriarch Theophilos III of Jerusalem will host and participate in the event. All Orthodox Patriarchs and Primates have formally been informed about and are fully supportive of the occasion.
How common is it for the EP to inform the other Primates of these sorts of ecumenical gestures and to solicit their support?  
 

ialmisry

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Mor Ephrem said:
Maria said:
This from the EP website: http://www.apostolicpilgrimage.org/-/frequently-asked-questions-faq-?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apostolicpilgrimage.org%2Fhome%3Fp_p_id%3D101_INSTANCE_hRMgz5DFAcCi%26p_p_lifecycle%3D0%26p_p_state%3Dnormal%26p_p_mode%3Dview%26p_p_col_id%3Dcolumn-3%26p_p_col_count%3D1
Since the meeting between the Pope and the Ecumenical Patriarch is taking place in Jerusalem, Patriarch Theophilos III of Jerusalem will host and participate in the event. All Orthodox Patriarchs and Primates have formally been informed about and are fully supportive of the occasion.
What an interesting website this is turning out to be:

Q. What is the role of the Ecumenical Patriarch among Orthodox Churches?

A. The Ecumenical Patriarch presides among all Orthodox Primates, as "first among equals." He  also serves as the focal point and spokesman for Orthodox Church unity, is the only Primate who can convene inter-Orthodox councils, and is responsible for initiating inter-Church and inter-religious dialogues.
Is that for real?  If the Pope of Alexandria wanted to call a council, he couldn't do so?  He'd have to ask the EP to do it?  And ISTM every autocephalous Church has its own inter-Church and inter-religious departments engaging in its own activities: are they all illegitimate except the EP's?  

Q. How many Orthodox Christians are there world-wide?

A. 300 million. Geographically, its primary area of distribution lies along the coast of the (northeast) Mediterranean, in Eastern and Northern Europe, as well as in the Middle East. According to the canonical tradition of the Church, the Ecumenical Patriarchate is responsible for the pastoral care of those Orthodox Christians residing in regions outside the ecclesiastical borders of local Orthodox Churches. Accordingly, the Ecumenical Patriarchate is responsible for Orthodox Christians in the America, Western Europe, Asia, and Australia.
What happened to Antioch?  

Q. Will other Orthodox Patriarchs also participate?

Inasmuch as this event is an historical celebration of a specific event and the Ecumenical Patriarch represents the wider Orthodox Church, the encounter will take place between Patriarch Bartholomew and Pope Francis alone.
ISTM if it was the historical celebration of a specific event, that alone would suffice as an explanation.  

Since the meeting between the Pope and the Ecumenical Patriarch is taking place in Jerusalem, Patriarch Theophilos III of Jerusalem will host and participate in the event. All Orthodox Patriarchs and Primates have formally been informed about and are fully supportive of the occasion.
How common is it for the EP to inform the other Primates of these sorts of ecumenical gestures and to solicit their support?  
not as common as the Phanar claiming to speak for them.
Nor, as you pointed out above, as common as the Phanar fooling itself as to its position in Orthodoxy and the history thereof.
 

Maria

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ialmisry said:
Mor Ephrem said:
How common is it for the EP to inform the other Primates of these sorts of ecumenical gestures and to solicit their support?  
not as common as the Phanar claiming to speak for them.
Nor, as you pointed out above, as common as the Phanar fooling itself as to its position in Orthodoxy and the history thereof.
We in the USA keep saying that the media is ignorant for saying that the EP is like a Roman Pontiff, and that they are not doing proper research, but now the truth is out. It is the EP's website itself that is telling the media that the EP represents all of Orthodoxy just like the Pope represents all of Roman Catholicism.

The apparent equality of the two religious leaders (the EP and the Pope) is the reason why only these two leaders will be present from May 23-26, etc. If that is the case, then why is the Pope bringing his two friends: the Rabbi and the Muslim leader?
 

ialmisry

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methodius said:
just like the White House represents all America?
Everyone in America elects the occupant of the White House.

I don't recall having a say when the Phanar had a turnover.
 

Aristocles

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ialmisry said:
methodius said:
just like the White House represents all America?
Everyone in America elects the occupant of the White House.

I don't recall having a say when the Phanar had a turnover.
Then apparently you have no dog in the fight except for your oft-displayed hatred of the EP (unless you have something against a neighborhood in Istanbul).

AFTER this meeting you guys can have at it, but before....you're just gossipy old hags.

And of course, you have no vote for your own bishop, either.
 

Jonathan Gress

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Αριστοκλής said:
ialmisry said:
methodius said:
just like the White House represents all America?
Everyone in America elects the occupant of the White House.

I don't recall having a say when the Phanar had a turnover.
Then apparently you have no dog in the fight except for your oft-displayed hatred of the EP (unless you have something against a neighborhood in Istanbul).

AFTER this meeting you guys can have at it, but before....you're just gossipy old hags.

And of course, you have no vote for your own bishop, either.
Well, technically you do. You can go to the consecration ceremony and say "Anaxios!" at the appropriate time.
 

PJ

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Alveus Lacuna said:
There's no way they will ever reunite. The idea is ridiculous. Don't worry about it.
Yeah, you Orthodox are pretty much 100% committed to the schism.

(Sorry, just trying to develop the more polemical side of my personality.  8) But, seriously, I don't think that polemic I just used is any more ridiculous than it is when Orthodox speak as though the Pope and the EP are conspiring to have the latter become Catholic.)
 

Aristocles

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Peter J said:
Alveus Lacuna said:
There's no way they will ever reunite. The idea is ridiculous. Don't worry about it.
Yeah, you Orthodox are pretty much 100% committed to the schism.

(Sorry, just trying to develop the more polemical side of my personality.  8) But, seriously, I don't think that polemic I just used is any more ridiculous than it is when Orthodox speak as though the Pope and the EP are conspiring to have the latter become Catholic.)
You succeeded in your quest, unfortunately. But as I am not among the hand-wringers here I'll just wait and see.

As to the schism, you're welcomed back any time with only a couple of strings attached.
 

ialmisry

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Αριστοκλής said:
ialmisry said:
methodius said:
just like the White House represents all America?
Everyone in America elects the occupant of the White House.

I don't recall having a say when the Phanar had a turnover.
Then apparently you have no dog in the fight except for your oft-displayed hatred of the EP (unless you have something against a neighborhood in Istanbul).

AFTER this meeting you guys can have at it, but before....you're just gossipy old hags.

And of course, you have no vote for your own bishop, either.
au contraire, we've had a lot of imput with several of our bishops.

If a certain dog would stay in his neighborhood, instead of prowling around the globe and spraying for more territory, there'd be no fight.  Not to mention all the barking and howling he does.
 

ialmisry

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Peter J said:
Alveus Lacuna said:
There's no way they will ever reunite. The idea is ridiculous. Don't worry about it.
Yeah, you Orthodox are pretty much 100% committed to the schism.

(Sorry, just trying to develop the more polemical side of my personality.  8) But, seriously, I don't think that polemic I just used is any more ridiculous than it is when Orthodox speak as though the Pope and the EP are conspiring to have the latter become Catholic.)
He's already Catholic. The conspiracy is to have him join the Vatican in schism. Where did His All Holiness get his degree again?
 

Aristocles

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ialmisry said:
Αριστοκλής said:
ialmisry said:
methodius said:
just like the White House represents all America?
Everyone in America elects the occupant of the White House.

I don't recall having a say when the Phanar had a turnover.
Then apparently you have no dog in the fight except for your oft-displayed hatred of the EP (unless you have something against a neighborhood in Istanbul).

AFTER this meeting you guys can have at it, but before....you're just gossipy old hags.

And of course, you have no vote for your own bishop, either.
au contraire, we've had a lot of imput with several of our bishops.

If a certain dog would stay in his neighborhood, instead of prowling around the globe and spraying for more territory, there'd be no fight.  Not to mention all the barking and howling he does.
I would not like to be you at a certain date (or date certain) in the future, old buddy. You've blinders on if you can't see the argument as larger than what happens to peeve you.

Got any specific bishops in mind who speak out, and who are not acting similarly themselves?
 

ialmisry

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Αριστοκλής said:
ialmisry said:
Αριστοκλής said:
ialmisry said:
methodius said:
just like the White House represents all America?
Everyone in America elects the occupant of the White House.

I don't recall having a say when the Phanar had a turnover.
Then apparently you have no dog in the fight except for your oft-displayed hatred of the EP (unless you have something against a neighborhood in Istanbul).

AFTER this meeting you guys can have at it, but before....you're just gossipy old hags.

And of course, you have no vote for your own bishop, either.
au contraire, we've had a lot of imput with several of our bishops.

If a certain dog would stay in his neighborhood, instead of prowling around the globe and spraying for more territory, there'd be no fight.  Not to mention all the barking and howling he does.
I would not like to be you at a certain date (or date certain) in the future, old buddy. You've blinders on if you can't see the argument as larger than what happens to peeve you.
I only deal with larger arguments.
Αριστοκλής said:
Got any specific bishops in mind who speak out, and who are not acting similarly themselves?
for one
 

ialmisry

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Αριστοκλής said:
If you are posting images, Isa, I neither use nor load them.
POSITION OF THE MOSCOW PATRIARCHATE ON THE PROBLEM OF PRIMACY IN THE UNIVERSAL CHURCH
https://mospat.ru/en/2013/12/26/news96344/
 

Aristocles

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Oh that's great, Isa. The opinion of the church which sees itself as the replacement in primacy. Sure, I'll buy that -hah.

BTW, what of YOUR bishop? His view? What great angst has he shown? B maybe your patriarch is hugging a Melkite again so we can have both churches in dubious activity.

While you're at it and blathering about OCA being autocephalous, why are you not in the OCA?

All I see is your usual EPphobia, ever see.
 

PJ

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Αριστοκλής said:
Peter J said:
Alveus Lacuna said:
There's no way they will ever reunite. The idea is ridiculous. Don't worry about it.
Yeah, you Orthodox are pretty much 100% committed to the schism.

(Sorry, just trying to develop the more polemical side of my personality.  8) But, seriously, I don't think that polemic I just used is any more ridiculous than it is when Orthodox speak as though the Pope and the EP are conspiring to have the latter become Catholic.)
You succeeded in your quest,
Why thank you!  :D  :angel:

Heh, no but seriously, I've come to the conclusion that it is futile -- even counterproductive -- to deny or hide the fact that I'm often inundated with the-Orthodox-cling-to-the-schism type polemics. (On Catholic fora, that is, not on this forum.)
 

ialmisry

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Αριστοκλής said:
Oh that's great, Isa. The opinion of the church which sees itself as the replacement in primacy. Sure, I'll buy that -hah.
You haven't read it, have you?
But it does sound like you heard-and accepted-the hearsay of the Phanar's colleagues in the Vatican.  And of course, the Metropolitan of Bursa.

Αριστοκλής said:
BTW, what of YOUR bishop?
What of him?
Αριστοκλής said:
His view?
I'll see him three weeks hence, Lord willing.  I'll ask him.  It might be awkward, seeing as this is supposed to happen in a patriarchate we at present are not in communion with.

Αριστοκλής said:
What great angst has he shown?
Although the Phanar likes to think itself the center of the universe, at present we have other matters more pressing to attend to (the Metropolitan's election, the issue of the Phanariots in Jerusalem, how to proceed with the Chambesy scheme etc.)

Αριστοκλής said:
B maybe your patriarch is hugging a Melkite again so we can have both churches in dubious activity.
To do so, HB only has to go down the Street Called Straight to his compatriot.  This circus is playing out of town, with characters out of town.
Αριστοκλής said:
While you're at it and blathering about OCA being autocephalous, why are you not in the OCA?
I think I explained that before, but maybe you missed it: the parish priest where my sons and their mother were parishioners asked for an official transfer to the parish from the OCA so he could tell her not to come back (the OCA priest who had been counseling us agreed).  Btw, Met. Tikhon's godmother is at the same parish.
Αριστοκλής said:
All I see is your usual EPphobia, ever see.
then you are seeing things.
 

Aristocles

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Now I know how your opposition feels in the Private forums. Bully tactics do not work with me. But you have learned to dodge artfully, if not successfully.

Yes, I read it. And have previously. And I still see a "Phanar"-wannabe, there. So what?

I'll guess I will have to trust your report on your bishop's response, or rather try to do so. However it would lend some weight to your still hypocritical argument.

I can't make any sense of your excuse why you are not OCA, still.

While I am not happy with some of my patriarch's positions or remarks on everything, I don't see the boogeyman as you Phanarphobs imagine you do. Appears 'tis who YOU are seeing things.
 

SolEX01

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Αριστοκλής said:
I can't make any sense of your excuse why you are not OCA, still.
I can't either.  A priest wishes to transfer jurisdictions to avoid a woman?  Hey, we agree on something.   :)

Αριστοκλής said:
While I am not happy with some of my patriarch's positions or remarks on everything, I don't see the boogeyman as you Phanarphobs imagine you do. Appears 'tis who YOU are seeing things.
Maybe it's not Patriarch Bartholomew we should be worried about - er, Archbishop / Patriarch Rehoboam, oops, I meant Elphidophoros.

Let's remember that Archbishop Demetrios is north of 85 and His All Holiness is nearing 75.

Edit - Who's the Hierarch in Reply #61?
 

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SolEX01 said:
Αριστοκλής said:
I can't make any sense of your excuse why you are not OCA, still.
I can't either.  A priest wishes to transfer jurisdictions to avoid a woman?  Hey, we agree on something.   :)

Αριστοκλής said:
While I am not happy with some of my patriarch's positions or remarks on everything, I don't see the boogeyman as you Phanarphobs imagine you do. Appears 'tis who YOU are seeing things.
Maybe it's not Patriarch Bartholomew we should be worried about - er, Archbishop / Patriarch Rehoboam, oops, I meant Elphidophoros.

Let's remember that Archbishop Demetrios is north of 85 and His All Holiness is nearing 75.

Edit - Who's the Hierarch in Reply #61?
Metropolitan Hilarion.

Patriarch Rehoboam.  I shall have to remember that, as I fear we may have need of it.

As for the question of my parish-if you notice, not even the secular courts will let you get divorced in two states: one has to yield jurisdiction to the other.  That, and it might be a problem telling her to not come back when she was the parishioner and the husband wasn't.
 

SolEX01

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ialmisry said:
SolEX01 said:
Αριστοκλής said:
I can't make any sense of your excuse why you are not OCA, still.
I can't either.  A priest wishes to transfer jurisdictions to avoid a woman?  Hey, we agree on something.   :)

Αριστοκλής said:
While I am not happy with some of my patriarch's positions or remarks on everything, I don't see the boogeyman as you Phanarphobs imagine you do. Appears 'tis who YOU are seeing things.
Maybe it's not Patriarch Bartholomew we should be worried about - er, Archbishop / Patriarch Rehoboam, oops, I meant Elphidophoros.

Let's remember that Archbishop Demetrios is north of 85 and His All Holiness is nearing 75.

Edit - Who's the Hierarch in Reply #61?
Metropolitan Hilarion.
I knew he looked familiar.  Thank You.  :)

ialmisry said:
Patriarch Rehoboam.  I shall have to remember that, as I fear we may have need of it.

As for the question of my parish-if you notice, not even the secular courts will let you get divorced in two states: one has to yield jurisdiction to the other.  That, and it might be a problem telling her to not come back when she was the parishioner and the husband wasn't.
Transfer a jurisdiction because of one person?  Still doesn't make sense even with your secular divorce analogy....  ???
 

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If a certain dog would stay in his neighborhood, instead of prowling around the globe and spraying for more territory, there'd be no fight.  Not to mention all the barking and howling he does.
I don't understand much of what is being argued about here, but I think it would behoove us to speak respectfully of the Patriarchs and Bishops of the Church.  We have never walked in their shoes and disagreeing about their politics may be one thing, but calling them dogs seems to be quite inappropriate.  :(
 

ialmisry

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Αριστοκλής said:
Now I know how your opposition feels in the Private forums. Bully tactics do not work with me. But you have learned to dodge artfully, if not successfully.
No dodge.  You got your answer straight on.  As for bullying, not my fault facts intimidate so.
Αριστοκλής said:
Yes, I read it. And have previously. And I still see a "Phanar"-wannabe, there. So what?
Really?  Moscow wants to be a beleaguered vestige that, having lost its raison d'être, has to cling to ethnocentric phyletism and adopt the heretical ecclesiology that ruined its superior?  I see no evidence that Moscow stooped to that under Stalin, let alone now, having resumed its role as Newer Rome in the replay of Old Rome vs. (Old) New Rome of the first millenium, Constantinople (or if you prefer Istanbul) reversing its role.
Αριστοκλής said:
I'll guess I will have to trust your report on your bishop's response, or rather try to do so. However it would lend some weight to your still hypocritical argument.
::)
If would make you sleep easier at night, I could ask Met. Tikhon for his opinion as well.
Αριστοκλής said:
I can't make any sense of your excuse why you are not OCA, still.
No excuse. Reasons given above.
Αριστοκλής said:
While I am not happy with some of my patriarch's positions or remarks on everything, I don't see the boogeyman as you Phanarphobs imagine you do. Appears 'tis who YOU are seeing things.
I see the Vatican's supreme pontiff being commemorated here before the Phanar's "first without equals."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL5G2lYrTvI#t=1170.
 

ialmisry

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TheTrisagion said:
If a certain dog would stay in his neighborhood, instead of prowling around the globe and spraying for more territory, there'd be no fight.  Not to mention all the barking and howling he does.
I don't understand much of what is being argued about here, but I think it would behoove us to speak respectfully of the Patriarchs and Bishops of the Church.  We have never walked in their shoes and disagreeing about their politics may be one thing, but calling them dogs seems to be quite inappropriate.  :(
just continuing the metaphor of "having a dog in this fight."  Nothing more.
 

ialmisry

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SolEX01 said:
ialmisry said:
SolEX01 said:
Αριστοκλής said:
I can't make any sense of your excuse why you are not OCA, still.
I can't either.  A priest wishes to transfer jurisdictions to avoid a woman?  Hey, we agree on something.   :)

Αριστοκλής said:
While I am not happy with some of my patriarch's positions or remarks on everything, I don't see the boogeyman as you Phanarphobs imagine you do. Appears 'tis who YOU are seeing things.
Maybe it's not Patriarch Bartholomew we should be worried about - er, Archbishop / Patriarch Rehoboam, oops, I meant Elphidophoros.

Let's remember that Archbishop Demetrios is north of 85 and His All Holiness is nearing 75.

Edit - Who's the Hierarch in Reply #61?
Metropolitan Hilarion.
I knew he looked familiar.  Thank You.   :)

ialmisry said:
Patriarch Rehoboam.  I shall have to remember that, as I fear we may have need of it.

As for the question of my parish-if you notice, not even the secular courts will let you get divorced in two states: one has to yield jurisdiction to the other.  That, and it might be a problem telling her to not come back when she was the parishioner and the husband wasn't.
Transfer a jurisdiction because of one person?  Still doesn't make sense even with your secular divorce analogy....   ???
How many other persons are involved in your marriage/divorce? Even the Muslims only involve one other person in a divorce.
Though in my case it really was two other persons, namely our sons (both of whom now serve at that altar).
 

SolEX01

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ialmisry said:
How many other persons are involved in your marriage/divorce? Even the Muslims only involve one other person in a divorce.
Though in my case it really was two other persons, namely our sons (both of whom now serve at that altar).
I never married in the church; so, no need for priest's involvement.
 

ialmisry

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ialmisry said:
This may be of interest, or at least interesting:
Concerning the ’Historic Meeting‘ Between Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew and Pope Francis (May, 2014)
http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/about-the-apostolic-pilgrimage-patriarch-bartholomew-and-pope-francis.aspx
 

Andrew21091

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I often wonder why we even have bishops at all. We all know more about the Faith than they do.

All this paranoia about bishops. No faith in Christ or the Church at all.
 

Mor Ephrem

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ialmisry said:
ialmisry said:
This may be of interest, or at least interesting:
Concerning the ’Historic Meeting‘ Between Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew and Pope Francis (May, 2014)
http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/about-the-apostolic-pilgrimage-patriarch-bartholomew-and-pope-francis.aspx
I want to support it, but then I read this:

Read the amazing letter to Pope Francis (April, 2014) by Metropolitan Seraphim of Piraeus (Church of Greece).
SMH. 
 

ialmisry

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Mor Ephrem said:
ialmisry said:
ialmisry said:
This may be of interest, or at least interesting:
Concerning the ’Historic Meeting‘ Between Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew and Pope Francis (May, 2014)
http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/about-the-apostolic-pilgrimage-patriarch-bartholomew-and-pope-francis.aspx
I want to support it, but then I read this:

Read the amazing letter to Pope Francis (April, 2014) by Metropolitan Seraphim of Piraeus (Church of Greece).
SMH. 
SMH?

yeah, they're a mixed bag.
 
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