Harry Potter and Twilight and

[Asteriktos]

A controversial pastor is planning a "massive burning" of Harry Potter and Twilight books, as well as other items, in Tennessee.

Global Vision Bible Church pastor Greg Locke was met with cries of approval on Sunday when he declared there would be a "burning service" this week.

Locke, who operates out of Mt. Juliet near Nashville, told them to bring Ouija boards, which he called a "portal to hell," and other items he said were associated with witchcraft...

Right-wing pastor Greg Locke organizes "massive" book burning

Books from the Harry Potter and Twilight franchises are up for incineration, as well as many other items.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Irened]

Good. Glory be to God.

 

[Ainnir]

The thing that strikes me about events like these is... where are they getting these books? If someone can "bring a Ouija board," either they own one or they'll have to buy one. And if you're buying the stuff, you're supporting the creators.

 

[Luke]

^Maybe they are borrowing them from libraries. Of course, they will have to eventually pay hefty library fines.

 

[Ainnir]

^Maybe they are borrowing them from libraries. Of course, they will have to eventually pay hefty library fines.

I know all about that.

 

[Arachne]

As JKR says, when someone tells her they're gonna burn their books in protest of her views, 'Go ahead, I've already got your money'.

 

[copticorthodoxboy]

I'm a proud Ravenclaw ^_^

 

[Arachne]

I'm a proud Ravenclaw ^_^

So are spousal unit and I. Our son turned out to be a Hufflepuff through and through.

 

[RaphaCam]

I'm a proud Ravenclaw ^_^

Nonsense! You should be a humble Ravenclaw.

I, for one, am the humblest of the Gryffindor.

 

[Ainnir]

I love y'all.
I know my oldest is a Slitherin and proud of it. Apparently there's an official test, so I'll get back to you on the rest of us.

 

[Ainnir]

I'm a Ravenclaw. The other two are Hufflepuffs.

 

[Arachne]

Every Sorting Hat I've ever tried has said Ravenclaw, all except Pottermore, which said Gryffindor. Bah, humbug. I'm growing more Hufflepuff with age, but I'm still the 'gimme printed word' type. I spent eight very fun years here:

Welcome • Hogwarts Online

Hogwarts Online is an online Harry Potter community that has been running since 2001. You can take classes, play Quidditch, earn points for your House and more. Join today!

hol.org.uk

 

[Vladimir Al-Masih]

So which Hogwarts house is more likely to be Team Edward or Team Other Guy? And why does it matter?

 

[recent convert]

The thing is J K Rowling seems to have some convoluted but pondering Christian beliefs. Stephanie Meyer is a Mormon. These people do not seem to be consciously anti Christian in their outlook on things. Why not offer some counsel that they could either decide to accept or not? Some years back, author Ann Rice actually became Christian but regrettably fell away again. Still, there are better ways to approach these people.

 

[Arachne]

Even more baffling is the sudden obsession with Twilight again. I mean, it was irrelevant by 2010. If you see how many Twilight books are in charity shops, no one has wanted to hold on to them for years now. If that's all kids around Mount Juliet have to read, their libraries are in need of a massive overhaul.

 

[Arachne]

The thing is J K Rowling seems to have some convoluted but pondering Christian beliefs.

She's a member of the Kirk, the (Presbyterian) Church of Scotland, in good standing.

These people do not seem to be consciously anti Christian in their outlook on things. Why not offer some counsel that they could either decide to accept or not? Some years back, author Ann Rice actually became Christian but regrettably fell away again. Still, there are better ways to approach these people.

There has been a shedload of debates about Harry Potter and it's time to stop flogging that dead horse. People like the good pastor and his supporters do need counseling, to learn to separate fiction from reality.

 

[Asteriktos]

Welp, they went through with it. You can search for articles on google if you want to see images.

 

[biro]

http://instagr.am/p/CZkRAzblqwv/
Book-burning, from the old days.

 

[Vladimir Al-Masih]

http://instagr.am/p/CZkRAzblqwv/
Book-burning, from the old days.

Good times.

 

[Stinky]

Acts19:19 NKJV
Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver.

 

[Eamonomae]

Why not burn Tolkien? Those books involve wizards, magical elves, and summoning demonic "orcs" literally symbolic of Satan.
Maybe Narnia as well - the Dawn Treader has a teenager turning into a dragon, clearly a metaphor for Pagan Roman Apotheosis.

I'm fully aware there are definitely books to try to get kids into "Magick"al practices and Wicca, but Harry Potter is definitely not one of them. It's easily one of the more fantastical "fantasy" books out there.

If you haven't read the books, you shouldn't be burning the books on the basis of its substantive content. If you have read the books, point to me exactly what is occultic about Harry Potter. Go on, I'll wait. There's not even an idea that an ordinary person could become a wizard; it's something genetic in the Harry Potter universe.

The closest thing I've found is the name of one of the characters, "Alastor Moody" - a parody of the name Aleister Crowley.

I also think the Harry Potter series is vastly overrated. It's a good kid - teenage books, but it baffles my mind there are 30 something year olds who think it's better than Milton's Paradise Lost.

I am a Slytherin according to Pottermore though, so...(does it really shock you)

 

[Eamonomae]

Acts19:19 NKJV
Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver.

Harry Potter isn't a guide to practice magic. It's a book series about a bunch of nerdy confused British teenagers waving magical sticks and screaming nonsensical Latin phrases.

 

[Arachne]

Why not burn Tolkien? Those books involve wizards, magical elves, and summoning demonic "orcs" literally symbolic of Satan.
Maybe Narnia as well - the Dawn Treader has a teenager turning into a dragon, clearly a metaphor for Pagan Roman Apotheosis.

Tolkien is sus by default because he was a Catholic. Lewis got off lightly, both for being Anglican and heavy-handed with the Jesus allegory, but you can still find the odd preacher spazzing out over him now and then.

It all comes down to cultural background, unsurprisingly.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/01/why-the-british-tell-better-childrens-stories/422859/

 

[recent convert]

Tolkien is sus by default because he was a Catholic. Lewis got off lightly, both for being Anglican and heavy-handed with the Jesus allegory, but you can still find the odd preacher spazzing out over him now and then.

It all comes down to cultural background, unsurprisingly.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/01/why-the-british-tell-better-childrens-stories/422859/

I wonder how having a vegetarian diet ( vegetarianism on the list) is a doorway to demonic possession? Are the Veggie Tales kids movies included there?

 

[Vladimir Al-Masih]

Are the Veggie Tales kids movies included there?

I don't recall an episode where any of the characters were eaten or if vegetarianism/veganism was even remotely addressed.

 

[Ainnir]

Acts19:19 NKJV
Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver.

A one-to-one correlation would mean that the TN book burners were themselves holding seances and LARPing Harry Potter and Twilight. And maybe that was the case, but I doubt it.
The situation in Acts makes sense; people are turning away from actual former practices and destroying their own property that they used for those practices.

 

[Vladimir Al-Masih]

With that logic, if Harry Potter and Twilight were causing these Christians to stumble in their walk with Christ, is it still Nazirific to burn those books?

 

[biro]

(Slaps forehead)

 

[Arachne]

With that logic, if Harry Potter and Twilight were causing these Christians to stumble in their walk with Christ, is it still Nazirific to burn those books?

Why yes, yes it is.

 

[Vladimir Al-Masih]

Why yes, yes it is.

Lol ok.

 

[Bizzlebin]

I wonder how having a vegetarian diet ( vegetarianism on the list) is a doorway to demonic possession? Are the Veggie Tales kids movies included there?

Vegetarianism is indeed an issue; here's canon 14 of Ancyra:

"
As for those presbyters or deacons who are in the clergy and who abstain from meat, it has seemed right for them to touch and taste the meat and then, if they so wish, to refrain from eating it; but if they are unwilling to eat even vegetables that have been cooked with meat, and refuse to submit to the Canon, let them be dismissed from the orders.
"

It is a little more complicated when dealing with monastics, but basically vegentarianism in and of itself is not allowed in Orthodoxy. One can fast from meat, one can dislike meat, and one can even largely abstain from meat, but a person cannot be a vegetarian as such—it's a contrary religious position. Anthropomorphic non-human characters in kid's shows and books are a whole other problem—I don't allow any of that near kids, either.

 

[Asteriktos]

A one-to-one correlation would mean that the TN book burners were themselves holding seances and LARPing Harry Potter and Twilight. And maybe that was the case, but I doubt it.
The situation in Acts makes sense; people are turning away from actual former practices and destroying their own property that they used for those practices.

There's also the monetary difference, which adds to the example from Acts being more about repentance and less about performance*, given how expensive it was to reproduce texts then. On that front, a fairer comparison for modern people wouldn't be $20-150 in books, but like a middle class person donating a $2500 personal computer (so that the only one remaining is in a shared space like the living room), in a pledge to stop looking at pornography.


*I don't mean to say that all the modern-day people are doing is being merely performative; I'm sure many are coming from a place of wanting to go in the right direction

 

[Eamonomae]

"
As for those presbyters or deacons who are in the clergy and who abstain from meat, it has seemed right for them to touch and taste the meat and then, if they so wish, to refrain from eating it; but if they are unwilling to eat even vegetables that have been cooked with meat, and refuse to submit to the Canon, let them be dismissed from the orders.
"

It is a little more complicated when dealing with monastics, but basically vegentarianism in and of itself is not allowed in Orthodoxy. One can fast from meat, one can dislike meat, and one can even largely abstain from meat, but a person cannot be a vegetarian as such—it's a contrary religious position. Anthropomorphic non-human characters in kid's shows and books are a whole other problem—I don't allow any of that near kids, either.

1. With no disrespect to you Bizzlebin, but you have a habit of completely removing traditional canons from their proper context and applying a specific interpretation to them in such a way that isn't actually correct. In another post, you argued that deaconesses had a "liturgical function" by virtue of them serving the Eucharist to women in hospice or by performing Baptisms. Something that's completely misleading. Something tells me in the case of this particular canon, this was because of local pagan ascetic praxis that swept into Orthodoxy - indeed, during the time of Saint Gregory the Dialogist, the French Bishops incorporated French pagan religious garments into the Priesthood, and the Pope had to come down on them.
2. Local conciliar canons aren't de facto binding, they are at most persuasive. The Council of Elvira forbids paintings on Church walls and forbids communion even at death for people who helped prepare pagan animal sacrifices.
3. Additional, local conciliar canons can be flat out wrong.

Me personally, I think you are trying to caricaturize traditional Orthodox polemics with the intention of discrediting traditional moral theology - it's certainly a bizarre position to argue that "nudity in all circumstances is Orthodox" in one thread and then argue that Veggietales is pure evil in another thread.

 

[Bizzlebin]

2. Local conciliar canons aren't de facto binding, they are at most persuasive. The Council of Elvira forbids paintings on Church walls and forbids communion even at death for people who helped prepare pagan animal sacrifices.
3. Additional, local conciliar canons can be flat out wrong.

I hope I'm not getting too crazy with the canons, being a canonist! But as for local councils, this is quite correct: local councils are not, necessarily in and of themselves, ecumenically accepted. Yet in this case, Ancyra is mentioned by name in canon 2 of the Quinisext Council (Trullo):

"
... On the other hand, we ratify all the rest of the sacred Canons promulgated by our holy and blissful Fathers, to wit: the three hundred and eighteen foregathered in Nicaea, those convened in Ancyra ...
"

For those who accept Trullo, the canon against vegetarianism—which is a religious position, according to Orthodoxy, and not merely "personal choice"—remains in force.

 

[Eamonomae]

I hope I'm not getting too crazy with the canons, being a canonist! But as for local councils, this is quite correct: local councils are not, necessarily in and of themselves, ecumenically accepted. Yet in this case, Ancyra is mentioned by name in canon 2 of the Quinisext Council (Trullo):

"
... On the other hand, we ratify all the rest of the sacred Canons promulgated by our holy and blissful Fathers, to wit: the three hundred and eighteen foregathered in Nicaea, those convened in Ancyra ...
"

For those who accept Trullo, the canon against vegetarianism—which is a religious position, according to Orthodoxy, and not merely "personal choice"—remains in force.

Interesting. I still wonder if there is some context we are lacking (for example, proscriptions against vegetarian pagan practices - Hindus, Buddhists, and even certain Zoroastrian sects all profess mandatory vegetarianism, and there would thus be a question about the intent behind the canon), but hey, the more you know. I guess vegetarianism is forbidden generally speaking.

 

[Bizzlebin]

Interesting. I still wonder if there is some context we are lacking (for example, proscriptions against vegetarian pagan practices - Hindus, Buddhists, and even certain Zoroastrian sects all profess mandatory vegetarianism, and there would thus be a question about the intent behind the canon), but hey, the more you know. I guess vegetarianism is forbidden generally speaking.

Some of the commentary links the canon with vegetarian practices of the Manicheans. But more broadly, I think the point is that vegetarianism is a religious practice, and inherently so: abstaining for asceticism, or to address climate change, or for some other reason has in-built limits, whereas philosophical (ie, religious) vegetarianism necessarily makes certain universal claims about killing animals, eating meat, and about God's creation as a whole which are not compatible with Christian teaching. So there is no issue with a "Meatless Monday" sort of practice (or regular fasting, of course!), but a general abhorrence of meat-eating would trigger the canonical penalty, regardless of the provenance of the specific (but assuredly non-Christian) beliefs behind it.

 

[Asteriktos]

Who are you a canonist with, again? The, uh, "geeks"?

 

[Asteriktos]

I'd always heard about the "more popular than Jesus" thing, but never taken the time to look into it

More popular than Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[biro]

Monks and nuns eat vegan all the time.

And the Beatles are still pretty popular.

 

[Katechon]

Why not burn Tolkien? Those books involve wizards, magical elves, and summoning demonic "orcs" literally symbolic of Satan.
Maybe Narnia as well - the Dawn Treader has a teenager turning into a dragon, clearly a metaphor for Pagan Roman Apotheosis.

I'm fully aware there are definitely books to try to get kids into "Magick"al practices and Wicca, but Harry Potter is definitely not one of them. It's easily one of the more fantastical "fantasy" books out there.

If you haven't read the books, you shouldn't be burning the books on the basis of its substantive content. If you have read the books, point to me exactly what is occultic about Harry Potter. Go on, I'll wait. There's not even an idea that an ordinary person could become a wizard; it's something genetic in the Harry Potter universe.

The closest thing I've found is the name of one of the characters, "Alastor Moody" - a parody of the name Aleister Crowley.

I also think the Harry Potter series is vastly overrated. It's a good kid - teenage books, but it baffles my mind there are 30 something year olds who think it's better than Milton's Paradise Lost.

No, in Tolkien's case the only real magicians are people like Melkor, Sauron or Saruman. Magic is painted in a very Christian light when refered to these people, as a corruption of Metaphysics according to the will of fallen beings. In the case of Saruman you even get the edge of modern technology involved. Whereas wizards like Gandalf or the Istari in general are essentially priests, sending light and exorcising even, as with Theoden. Same goes for Narnia. Don't know from which third-class fora you get your occult inversions from. Propably the same places that tell you Genesis is a gnostic tale and that the snake was right all along.

I am a Slytherin according to Pottermore though, so...(does it really shock you)

Cringe